Dark Translations trying something new

This new group called Dark Translations, which up till now has created patches only for games by Black Lillith, has decided to try something new and create a patch for a game based on commission. Here's what the news part says on the matter:

"After not having any objections to the idea, I decided to give it a go ahead and try it out. I'm rather uncertain that there will be any interest in it, but we'll see.

The main idea stems from H-manga translators, like SaHa and Desudesu, who accept community-driven contributions to translate H-manga. I'm hoping to do something similar to what they do.

The main problem is establishing a rate to charge. H-mangas have the advantage of being able to charge per page, but H-games are so large in scope and complexity, that even estimating the amount of sentences or lines therein can be an arduous task in itself.

At the moment, with the interest of doing commissions for H-games uncertain, I will simply negotiate and form an estimate on a game-by-game basis with the contributor or contributors involved. Something like an hourly rate could be done as well.

The other problem is actually having a way to translate the game. So, not all games will be doable. The game *must* be a kirikiri game OR a game that is compatible with OAGT OR has tools already available or in development. That said, there is a decent amount of games that are compatible with OAGT, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Of course, commissions won't work without sufficient interest or enough contributions to warrant doing a translation, so get the word out.

Please read the rules I posted at the top of the commissions forum and feel free to contact me with any questions if necessary. The rules are still very much in a "beta" phase so expect them to be added, removed, or changed.

Other than that, go ahead and start posting the games you most want to see translated and how much you're willing to contribute and see how it goes. I'll certainly be commenting and keeping watch as I can."

Also the owner of the site, Nephirin did make a post concerning legal/illegal matters concerning this:

"...I've been personally supporting the games I translate and even go beyond that (I'm in the process of ordering over $400 in games). I'm also under an affiliation program with dlsite that is giving them tons of hits and sales each month. Not only that, but I don't even use the money I earn from dlsite and have already given away over $60 in games and plan to do so again in the near future.

That said, there are *many* accomplished freelance manga translators out there who have been doing commissions for years and they have yet to run into any illegal trouble. You could even argue what *they* are doing is more illegal because they actually host and link to the mangas to download. I don't nor will host or link to pirated games.

That said, I've had talks with bvi22 (the maker of OAGT) and he's a nice guy, but I doubt he would object to me using a function in his program intended for the sole purpose of translating H-games. I am not selling his product nor anyone else's tools and plainly state when I use them (raziel2001au, for example, has generously offered his locale tools for me to use). I'm also considering working with bvi22 (aka paying him money) to make certain games compatible and/or adding functionality to OAGT.

The kirikiri tools that allow me to repackage .xp3 files are free for everyone to use. And again, I am not selling them.

The .xp3 tools are technically illegal by themselves because they break encryption (Lilith's games even include a file that says it's illegal to break them). So, you're free to criticize me there.

You could also argue that the script files I host are illegal, but I've already decided it's a necessary evil to do the work I do. It's a small technicality that could just as easily be applied to almost any fan-based related work. And again, I am not selling their work or the script file.

Lastly, let me be clear that every game that gets commissioned gets released to the public for free. I am not selling the games nor the translations themselves.

I would also like to note that my translation skills have significantly improved since my days of Asagi and I wouldn't be taking this step if I wasn't confident in my translation abilities.

I want to remain as transparent as possible about what I am doing so as to avoid any legal troubles."

Last I checked, they are currently considering a Black Lillith game called Elf Princess Nina (エルフ姫ニィーナ ), Saishuu Chikan Densha 2, and another game called Kansen and its sequel Kansen 3.

So any thoughts on this?

And just to let people know, I'm not the person in charge of the project (I can barely speak Japanese let alone read it), nor am I advertising for this site, I'm just posting this info to hear what other eroge players think.

[GatoNegro]

i don't know what to think, but i would never pay to translate or buy a game with just porn just like all the game that he have worked in.

[NTX]

He understands what he's doing is questionable, it more or less equates to translating someone else's book for money without their permission. That being said, if he's fully aware of the risk being caught and indicted, it's a lesser crime I wouldn't think twice about, like walking by those guys who sell burned cam movies on the sidewalk. It may even bring Black Lilith more sales in the end. If someone's willing to pay him for it, I don't have anything against it. I've thought about paying someone to translate a visual novel or two for me so I could enjoy it myself in the past (it's okay to dream), but I don't think there's much interest for games of black lilith's size. They mostly focus on h-content as well, and translation of h-content isn't all that necessary.

I've got no interest in this genre, and I'm not a translator, but just to add my two cents...

After glancing through two of the scripts from the games that Nephrinn's translated in the past, I would feel insulted if I had to pay for this. It's impossible to judge the accuracy of the translations as the original text isn't preserved, but in some places it reads very poorly in English (although some other parts are fine). From that, it's reasonable to infer that there are probably some inaccuracies in the Japanese to English translation too.

A few samples:

From The Gang Rape Club:

With feeling her body jump up greatly at once, Chiaki stopped moving and stiffened up.

Not knowing what her facial expression was covered by the blindfold, he had no doubt that perhaps she had a face that was indulging in the pleasure.

While listening to my heart jump about, with speaking the name of the person who had addressed me with a voice I squeezed out.

From Prison Battleship:

Blushing her cheeks, she floated a pleasure-filled smile like she couldn't believe what was happening, losing all awareness in the process.

Naomi spilled out blurred gasps upon merely having her breasts and butt lightly caressed, seeming to pin her down with rising carnal desires beyond bashfulness.

Actually, it's not just Black Lillith games or games like theirs he's willing to translate. I PMed him of the possibility of eroge that were dark just because of their story rather than the ero content such as Dies irae and G Senjou no Maou and he said he'd translate them if someone asked. A friend of mine also inquired about a Nitro+ (from the guys who brought us Phantom of Inferno and Saya no Uta) game called Gekko no Carnevale and was told it's translatable.

[Starchanchan]

*shrug* I guess if people are willing to pay enough for what they want, the fanbase can't really stop them. That said, once or twice I've had people offer to pay me for small translation/editing works in the past, but I always refused payment, as I've never felt comfortable accepting money for something like that. It's something I do in my free time as a fan, for fans, and it's not even my original work to begin with. Commissions for, say, artwork are different; they're creating original works specifically for the person paying for them. If Echoes of Thunder were a much smaller, less time-intensive project, we'd most just release it for free. Since it's an entire novel in VN format, though, and it's got a LOT of work put into it by everyone involved, it's more like an actual product to us.

Looks like he's interested in hiring a proofreader to help take care of the grammar mistakes

Originally Posted by Unregistered

And just to let people know, I'm not the person in charge of the project

are you really REALLY sure?

[Nephrinn]

After glancing through two of the scripts from the games that Nephrinn's translated in the past, I would feel insulted if I had to pay for this. It's impossible to judge the accuracy of the translations as the original text isn't preserved, but in some places it reads very poorly in English (although some other parts are fine). From that, it's reasonable to infer that there are probably some inaccuracies in the Japanese to English translation too.

I've had this discussion before, but Japanese to English translation is an evolving process for me. I admit my fallacies. If you think those sentences are bad, go take a look at Asagi 1; it was almost a 1:1 grammatical reading, and I was still very much learning Japanese then.

However, keep in mind that *one* person translated those games for free and out of their own time. There are bound to be mistakes and parts where the English is awkward. I am not a professional nor claim to be. I am also not one to spend an hour on every sentence until it's sparkling perfect to the result of the project taking years to get done *if* it gets done.

That said, I am continuing to take steps to improve the quality of my translations. All future commissioned translation work will be proofread and revised before being released. My hope is that they will start edging towards professional translations, like Peach Princess. Unfortunately, that's not something that will happen over night.

I think dark games are some of the most neglected games in the genre and rarely do you see them translated to English let alone anything that's even remotely new. I'm in the position to change that and, while I have a tremendous amount of support, it is the critics that have really shaped what I've done and continue to do.

[Toranth]

On the practical side, as Ignosco mentioned, once you start selling something, quality becomes a serious issue. Just look at the way some people have reacted to Mangagamer.

On the ethical side, perhaps I'm just an old fogey who formed his attitudes back in the days when anime was traded around on tapes, but this seems perilously close to bootlegging, and bootleggers are the scum of the earth.

Originally Posted by Nephrinn

I think dark games are some of the most neglected games in the genre and rarely do you see them translated

And there is good reason why they're not!
They're short mindless stories (if one could even call them that) without any substance or plot.

[Nephrinn]

On the practical side, as Ignosco mentioned, once you start selling something, quality becomes a serious issue. Just look at the way some people have reacted to Mangagamer.

On the ethical side, perhaps I'm just an old fogey who formed his attitudes back in the days when anime was traded around on tapes, but this seems perilously close to bootlegging, and bootleggers are the scum of the earth.

Even so, I'm not professional like Mangagamer claims (or should) be. So, I don't think I quite have as much pressure on quality as they might have, but I do intend to push my translations to the next level of quality when commissions do begin.

Again, I am selling my translation skills; not the script nor the game. And I'm not sure selling is the right word here; accepting donations? It will be no different than the fan work I'm doing and others on this very site do and will always be released to the public for free.

I am not sure I understand the visceral reaction I've received from what appears to be a very small minority of people. I plan on working my ass off to provide the hentai community with at least decent translations of some great games in a very timely fashion (months, not years). I am a huge fan of h-games, but I also have a life that wouldn't permit me much time without a further incentive to do so. I believe I've taken a very reasonable path in finding a means that doesn't break any laws that any fan-based translation wouldn't break.

And there is good reason why they're not!
They're short mindless stories (if one could even call them that) without any substance or plot.

You're entitled to your own opinion of course, but I would digress. I'm not going to defend Lilith's games on the grounds of their story, but games like Gore Screaming Show, MinDeadBlood, and Dies Irae have huge followings because of their story.

[Anath]

Originally Posted by Nephrinn

You're entitled to your own opinion of course, but I would digress. I'm not going to defend Lilith's games on the grounds of their story, but games like Gore Screaming Show, MinDeadBlood, and Dies Irae have huge followings because of their story.

Yet, you're not doing any of those. Instead, you're doing what (looks like) porntastic dark games without a story worth reading in sight. As such, I stay far away from your site, and I don't plan to touch any of your translations with a ten foot pole.

...if you did happen to work on any Black Cyc games, I would naturally change my mind, shower you with praises, and want to have your babies (and proofread for you, but hey, order of importance :P)

Originally Posted by Anath

Yet, you're not doing any of those. Instead, you're doing what (looks like) porntastic dark games without a story worth reading in sight. As such, I stay far away from your site, and I don't plan to touch any of your translations with a ten foot pole.

...if you did happen to work on any Black Cyc games, I would naturally change my mind, shower you with praises, and want to have your babies (and proofread for you, but hey, order of importance :P)

http://forum.darktranslations.com/vi...php?f=20&t=160

[Nephrinn]

Yet, you're not doing any of those. Instead, you're doing what (looks like) porntastic dark games without a story worth reading in sight. As such, I stay far away from your site, and I don't plan to touch any of your translations with a ten foot pole.

Indeed and I can understand that considering this site caters to almost the opposite kind of audience. I'm not really sure that this should have even been posted here as it's just bound to draw controversy and disgust.

...if you did happen to work on any Black Cyc games, I would naturally change my mind, shower you with praises, and want to have your babies (and proofread for you, but hey, order of importance :P)

As Unregistered linked to, there's already been $200 proposed to translate MinDeadBlood.

As much as I love Asagi, I've actually been wanting to break out of the mold of the more porn-centric H-games and try something more popular and story-focused while still maintaining the dark theme.