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General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

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  #31  
Old 2007-10-14, 15:13
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> I've never felt any real connections with any male characters, because
> they're either too bland or too different. To me, most male main characters
> are so boring they're just a plot device to move things along

Hmm, on the one hand people are saying they cannot become the protagonist because of the strong personality, and you say because of the lack of it... :)
Perhaps there really is no reason, other than that most people find it hard to empathise to the point where they are sucked into first person...

Personally I find it easier to get sucked in when the protagonist is bland (or, rarely, when they happen to coincide with my personality). When the story is about the heroines, not about the one whose eyes you see through.

A game like Tsukihime, for example, has quite a lot of focus put onto Shiki himself. I love that game, but I viewed it from third person too, and it barely has any of the qualities that attract me to ADV / VN games in general. It feels almost like a different genre to me...
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  #32  
Old 2007-10-15, 00:20
GreatSaintLouis GreatSaintLouis is offline
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I'm not sure the point is to get into a protagonist's role if the particular character is written with an actual personality. If the creators go through all the work of writing a protagonist character, it seems odd to expect that the player should assume that the role is open for them to fill.

I mean, I really doubt anyone here (who's read the book) tried to impose themselves upon the character of Nick Carraway in The Great Gatsby, so I'm not sure why a visual novel should be different. Now something like Tokimeki Memorial, that I can understand.
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  #33  
Old 2007-10-15, 00:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asceai View Post
After all these years, I can still only think of Moon. Moon. still doesn't precisely fit that mold, though, even though the protagonist is female and it's (mostly) a GxB game...
Moon? Sorry for sounding stupid but is Moon a pre-key game? The title is the same....

@Starchanchan
There are serval GxB games out there....200?
eh. Mirai soft has the most titles out.

The will branch Sugar Beans seems to be getting popular.
Under the Moon being there best game imo. Even a fandisk is out because of demand.

Under the moon is really something special. It has full voice support. The main character is completly voiced. Ero cg is done nicely to 0___o
You can see both parties clearly which is pretty rare if you know what I mean.
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  #34  
Old 2007-10-15, 01:05
Bento
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Whoops >___<
Linked Under the moon to some wrong page....
This is the website. ehe. Gomen :3
---------------------------

I'm still sick of the faceless protagonist though =___=;;
It's lame. Where allready in 2007 and I sill see some games like this.....Another lame thing are those ero scenes where you only see a tiny part of him....come on.... not that I'm interested though....but still....

sigh. If only some companies stop living in the past....
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  #35  
Old 2007-10-15, 04:30
GreatSaintLouis GreatSaintLouis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bento View Post
Moon? Sorry for sounding stupid but is Moon a pre-key game? The title is the same....
Moon. (note the bizarre full-stop following the 'n') was developed by Tactics before ONE ~kagayaku kisetsu he~. Most of the staff that worked on these titles later went on to found Key.
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  #36  
Old 2007-10-15, 06:46
DaFool DaFool is offline
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Thanks for the GxB links!

re: drawn by women --> you mean shoujo style? To me it's not an issue of whether the artist was male or female, but whether the artist can draw delicately (lots of male artists based in asia draw pretty fine imho).

re: female characters being more emotional --> as an experiment, try to write in the female POV... I have noticed that the male love interests will start to become charismatic in their own right, while the main heroine will start to become dull. The scenario writer has to focus on making certain things appealing--no doubt those are prioritized according to the genre! The alternate POVs that are used sparingly are those which really do give an impact, otherwise they wouldn't include them.
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  #37  
Old 2007-10-15, 21:04
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This isn't quite what I was getting at; I was referring to GxB games released in English. Nonetheless, it's nice to see there's a lot more variety in visual novels than I had been led to believe. Now if only the English VN scene had this level of diversity... I find it amusing that, in Japan, Koei seems to be more well-known for their reverse-harem dating sims than they are for their Dynasty Warriors rehashes. Several of them have had decent anime and/or manga adaptions (ie: Harukanaru Toki no Naka de, La Corda d'Oro). I don't need to think very hard to wonder why they don't want to take a risk in the US, though. Hirameki's marketing woes probably have them convinced that these games won't sell. Let's just hope the mainstream successes of Pheonix Right, Hotel Dusk, and the like make them want to take a risk for a change.

There is one thing I can't stand about GxB titles, though, and that's the constant reuse of stereotypes as seen through a rosy filter. Granted, it's more or less the same stereotypes as in male-oriented harem games, but somehow seem more one-dimensional. I have yet to come across a "male target" with a substantial "jerk" or "unstable" factor, or even one I could equate my male friends to. Even though these terms are gender-neutral, tsundere and yandere apply more often than not to female characters. Then again, a gender-swapped version of School Days would be really messed up.

No, I wasn't specifically referring to the shojo style, but you make a good point. I like the art in many shojo works, but I'm also fond of other styles as well. I said I liked Gravitation, and I'm also fond of Nana, Boku wa Imouto ni Koi wo Suru, and a couple of others. I especially like realistic feel to them that prevents them from being generalized as hand-drawn, campy soap operas. Also, finely-crafted artwork is a definite plus.

I really like the art in Hourglass of Summer and Exodus Guilty, whereas I don't like the art in pretty much anything by Trabulance. I have some issues with the Zyx style. I have no outright complaints with the Sekilala styles, but no real praises either (I really liked the art in Come See Me Tonight 2 -- too bad the story wasn't anywhere near as good). I can't say much about the female-oriented works since the only titles I have as grounds for criticism are Yo-Jin-Bo (good but slightly iffy on a few characters) and Animamundi (just not my thing), and I haven't played through either of them yet despite owning both.

The biggest draw to me regarding VNs is the story. While it's usually easy to tell if a story is going to suck beforehand, I have been proven wrong before (Crescendo didn't sound that appealing, but it is now my all-time favorite. Wind and Exodus Guilty sounded good, but turned out to be disappointing, in my opinion). I'm glad we're getting stuff like Yume Miru Kusuri, Family Project, and Snow Sakura in addition to the fluff like Bazooka Cafe and Discipline. Good overall story + likeable but realistic (ie: flawed) characters + decent art = win.
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  #38  
Old 2007-10-15, 21:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDOMMX View Post
Then again, a gender-swapped version of School Days would be really messed up.
I would totally play that. Now, instead of loathing Makoto, I would get to loathe half the new male cast instead =p
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  #39  
Old 2007-10-23, 06:55
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As I've shown Narcissu to lots of people I can at least say that I know 2 girls who are waiting for the sequel :)
I'm male though.
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  #40  
Old 2007-10-24, 10:44
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"Actually, at this point, I wonder what Guys actually identify with the protagonist these days."

Most characters are in more or less boring or typical. Why? Because most characters especially the protagonist is over-used... a lot. If you do look at a lot of Hentai games, the most interesting characters are the girls, and gone into an choose you who like type adventure for the observer.

Guys cant really identify with your typical protagonist in an H-Game. It would be amazing if you could, however Its like trying to identify with an action hero, the protagonist has many elements that are just out of this world. An example would be that the protagonist can get with nearly any of the characters into a romantic relationship.
But its sad that the typical protagonist in an H-game is so over used. A lot of girls are going to this same format as the actual structure of an h-game is the same. Girls being, you got the "strong minded girl", "cute girl", "book worm girl with glasses" and the "older and mature girl".

Personally, I've only identified with two protagonists. The guy in Privet Nurse and 40 days and 40 nights of Rain. Both are interesting because the protagonist has his own personality and both have a 3rd perspective in the game. Its harder to say in 40 days and 40 nights of Rain because its very short, but much dialog in the story is based from many actual war elements. eg. When the group of men hang around the young girl(Kyrie) they didn't look at her per say, they saw her and saw things they have lost, forgotten or missed. Mostly these things are innocence, purity, happiness and often very much tend and care for this. Thats why they were very gentle with her and even the soldiers saw someone in her, one saw his daughter in her because of these attributes of which Kyrie had. Alcoholism was also common too.
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  #41  
Old 2007-10-24, 16:30
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Hmmm... I have a hard time empathizing with Hiroki because of his perspective on life (as Miharu puts it, a "loser complex"). I can see to an extent why some people would identify with him, but I personally cannot do the same. Truth be told, I thought Ayano was the most endearing and fleshed-out character in the game. Hiroki doesn't really have that much of a personality unless you're following Maria's route, and for some reason I thought the change seemed just a bit unrealistic. But that's just my opinion.

I had an easier time identifying with Ryo Sugisawa from Figures of Happiness. Sure, he's got an enviable life (good looks, decent grades, his own place, and a cute girlfriend that loves him dearly), but his actions are things I could see myself doing in the same situation. I think his personality is pretty well-defined. I'm tempted to say the same for a lot of the characters in the game (Mio, Minamo, Mao, Narumi, and even Wataru), but some of the developments just scream "afterthought" to me (Izumi, Kokoro, and Shinigami-chan).

Of course, the hardest to identify with are the characters who you have no idea why one of the girls fell for them in the first place, like Makoto Okano from Wind or Makoto Itou from School Days.

I should get around to playing 40 Days & 40 Nights of Rain in the near future. It's been sitting in my backlog in what seems like forever.
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