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General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

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  #31  
Old 2008-01-28, 05:30
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> as you cannot tell how the Japanese word is pronounced [when doing E->J]

Ah, I hadn't thought of this (though wouldn't the jump function make this easy anyway?).
I don't use E->J unless I am trying to confirm I have the nuance for a particular Japanese word right from the examples.

IMO, if you are trying to learn Japanese rather than English, E->J is useless other than for things like technical terms. You cannot use a word effectively until you are comfortable understanding it, and I don't think it's worth trying to do things backwards like that unless you're in a pinch.
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  #32  
Old 2008-01-29, 00:38
GreatSaintLouis GreatSaintLouis is offline
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Gah, I bought that as my first Japanese dictionary, and can wholeheartedly say that it is entirely useless. 16'000 words sounds like a lot, but it isn't. To my disappointment, despite the lovely layout of the thing and lack of romaji, 90% of the time the words I was seeking were not contained in its pages :(

For a portable dictionary, use this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji_S...Rakubiki_Jiten
The best $30 I ever spent. Worth buying a DS for, infact.
(If you're a beginner don't worry, you could memorise what the moon-language interface does via trial and error as there isn't much to it)
With the relative amount of words contained in the Kodansha Furigana dictionary, I find it really hard to believe that you were unable to find the majority of what you were looking for. If the user is sticking to standard, commonly-used Japanese (and make no mistake--there are far better dictionaries for advanced students of the language), those dictionaries will prove invaluable during the initial parts of your study. Obviously, looking up colloquialisms, nonstandard dialect, and jargon are simply beyond the scope of the Furigana dictionaries.

As far as the DS Kanji Sonomama Rakubiki Jiten, I can recommend it with reservations. Make no mistake, it's NOT a beginner's tool. Though the ease of writing kanji directly with the stylus is appealing, navigating the interface as well as reading some of the example text will obviously take a fair amount of prior Japanese knowledge. Also, as was noted before, there is no pronunciation kana printed for kanji in the English to Japanese mode, so you'll have to have a good grasp on the writing of kanji--stroke order and such--in order to copy the unknown kanji back into the Japanese-English part of the program. It's certainly useful, but only if you've had enough experience with the language to understand the interface; trying to use it as a beginner will only lead to frustration.

If you're starting out in the language but have a need for a decent kanji lookup tool, I suggest Kodansha's Essential Kanji Dictionary. It's got all of the standard kanji you should need to know, as well as a fairly remarkable amount of means of looking them up--you can look up by radical, number of strokes, or even pronunciation. Highly recommended.

One point I think needs to be made with regards to learning Japanese--or any language--is that there are no shortcuts. Electronic tools might be attractive because of their speed or intended ease of use, but more often than not these are geared towards experienced users. For the beginner, I've found that the easiest way by far is simply with good old-fashioned paper dictionaries and lots of study; the fancy electronic tools will be far more useful and less frustrating once you've got a decent grasp on the language under your belt.
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  #33  
Old 2008-01-29, 10:03
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Remembering the Kanji by Robert Heisig. (Or something to that extent.)

That's all I can say.

(No I'm not learning Japanese right now)
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  #34  
Old 2008-04-15, 21:13
NonExistence NonExistence is offline
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To anyone out there that knows: is Japanese grammer similar to Chinese grammar? By how much are they the same or different?
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  #35  
Old 2008-04-15, 21:24
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To anyone out there that knows: is Japanese grammer similar to Chinese grammar? By how much are they the same or different?
They're extremely different. Chinese grammar is very similar to American grammar in many aspects, while Japanese is vastly different and will take getting used to because there's a lot more nuances and the sentence structure alone is completely different.
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  #36  
Old 2008-04-16, 00:11
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To anyone out there that knows: is Japanese grammer similar to Chinese grammar? By how much are they the same or different?
Classical Chinese? Similar in many ways.
Modern Chinese? No way, José.
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  #37  
Old 2008-04-16, 01:32
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To anyone out there that knows: is Japanese grammer similar to Chinese grammar? By how much are they the same or different?
so take the example of sentence structure. we're all used to SVO, but in Japanese it might just be SOV...
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  #38  
Old 2008-04-16, 02:56
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actually, that sentence structure would be about right. or to be more complecated:

sentence describing subject tacked in front of subject as a adjective for the subject - repeat for time, place, object, etc then finally at long long last, the verb of the sentence.
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  #39  
Old 2008-04-21, 16:23
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I just read some people recommending reading mangas for practice, but I wouldn't know if that's a good idea, since mangas tend to use made-up words, and the grammar they use tends to go from being informal, to sometimes being really vulgar.

I'd only recommend using mangas as practice to improve your reading skills (i.e. be able to read faster), and some new vocabulary - this is, only if you already know enough of the Japanese grammar. I think it'd be better to start with manga aimed at kids (after all, you're just a beginner), like Doraemon for example. Once you can read that easily, you can start reading other mangas. I'd advise you to choose the least fictional manga you can find. So, for practice, Shōnen Jump would be a no-no (this is my personal advise; it's not as if it'd be impossible or wrong to try practising with those mangas.). Seinen manga tend to avoid the use of furigana; so, you'd better be decently versed at kanji if you'd like to read them in Japanese.

I also approve Tae Kim's guide; yet, at the same time, I'll say having a teacher is the best way to learn the grammar. Not only will he/she correct some mistakes you'll make (and believe me, you'll make them), but they'll also help you with your pronunciation - if you're a native English speaker, you'll need help in that area.

As an additional advise, try learning Japanese for something useful, not just for manga/anime/games. An additional language is always something good in your CV (résumé), you know?

Good luck, and have fun.
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  #40  
Old 2008-04-22, 01:16
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Actually the first Manga I read in Japanese was Full Metal Alchemist, and I recommend it to anyone: It has furigana for everything except say some of the background mechanic rants between Winry and other technicians, but the characters aren't paying attention to that anyways. Furthermore, it uses both formal and informal grammar, as well as a variety of colloquial to advanced vocabulary, while still being easy enough to read with a dictionary on hand. It covers an array of language: Religious, Military, Scientific, etc. So I find it's a really good manga for use in studying. That and it's hella interesting to boot.
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  #41  
Old 2008-04-22, 03:25
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Well, this is a little bit off topic but I think it is pretty redundant to creat new topic for my question.

ICould someone please tell me the origin of the word "ecchi", googling tells me that it is Japanese pronounciation of "H" - Hentai. H -> Etchi -> Ecchi, I think this is correct because Ecchi itself is written in katakana, but someone just don't believe my explaination, saying that they don't trust google. So could anyone knowing Japanese explain this to me?
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  #42  
Old 2008-04-22, 08:57
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Quote:
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Well, this is a little bit off topic but I think it is pretty redundant to creat new topic for my question.

ICould someone please tell me the origin of the word "ecchi", googling tells me that it is Japanese pronounciation of "H" - Hentai. H -> Etchi -> Ecchi, I think this is correct because Ecchi itself is written in katakana, but someone just don't believe my explaination, saying that they don't trust google. So could anyone knowing Japanese explain this to me?
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...83&postcount=5

Post by a Japanese person on the issue.
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  #43  
Old 2008-04-22, 15:50
roxfan roxfan is offline
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I just read some people recommending reading mangas for practice, but I wouldn't know if that's a good idea, since mangas tend to use made-up words, and the grammar they use tends to go from being informal, to sometimes being really vulgar.
It all depends on your goal. If you want to talk to real Japanese people then yes, using manga as a reference is a bad idea. If you want to read manga/watch anime/play games, then I think practicing with manga will do just fine.
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  #44  
Old 2008-04-25, 01:42
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well, i'm learning japenese now and using the same techniques from when i used english, get a good text book and get the basics down, work on the language as much as possbile for a month which should allow the brain to think in japenese, once you can think in a language all you need to do is get an excessive amount of text to expanded your vocabulary and language techniques, if have a japenese friend ask them to always speak to you in japenese to get you into the envirment, and last when you're explaining the meaning of a japenese word explained it in japenese.
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  #45  
Old 2008-04-25, 22:29
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So what textbooks would be worth buying in order to learn Japanese once you have already learned both hiragana and katakana?
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