"Vote with your dollars?"

[zalas]

Originally Posted by Strum

@Zalas: Just because a game is translated by fans doesn't mean its popular with the masses. They only translate games that they personally like. If it becomes popular in the online community, then it's purely a coincidence.

So are you saying that games popular with fans aren't necessarily games that are popular with the masses in the online community (i.e. fans)?

Originally Posted by Strum

I just getting the feeling Jast doesn't know what to licence and is just hanging around tl wiki and licencing whatever is there.

Can you honestly believe that, when ALcot and XUSE were the ones who approached JAST USA in the first place and not the other way around?

Originally Posted by zalas

So are you saying that games popular with fans aren't necessarily games that are popular with the masses in the online community (i.e. fans)?

Can you honestly believe that, when ALcot and XUSE were the ones who approached JAST USA in the first place and not the other way around?

Fan translators represent the minority ie themselves. They translate games they want and not what people beg for, in forums and such. You can't really say that the games being worked on by fans are what the masses have been asking for. Have people even heard of those games before fan translators started working on it? (excluding games that have anime adaptation)

As for ALcot and XUSE, I see your point but it just looks that way to me. Maybe this is all just a coincidence, or maybe its because of the points raised by an unregistered user. Either way, I still believe we're going to see a lot more fan translated stuff being licensed (nothing wrong with that) and almost no original titles (titles that require them to actually translate and not just check over)

[zalas]

Originally Posted by Strum

Fan translators represent the minority ie themselves. They translate games they want and not what people beg for, in forums and such. You can't really say that the games being worked on by fans are what the masses have been asking for.

This is based on the false assumption that people who work in fan translation projects are not part of the set of people who like playing such games. It is very rare (but not impossible) that someone joins a translation project having never been part of this community. Therefore, we can consider people who work on translation projects a sampling (albeit slightly nonuniform, since not everyone is willing to put in voluntary time and effort) of the community. Thus, it is very unimaginable that there is no correlation between preferences of the community and preferences of people working on fan translation projects, especially given how many fan translation projects there are. You even have *translators* who decided to pick up translating a game because they wanted to play it originally in English. (I personally don't recommend doing this <_<)

Have people even heard of those games before fan translators started working on it? (excluding games that have anime adaptation)

Yes, guess where some of the project staff come from... A lot of times, what happens is that some info about some game in Japan leaks over to the English-speaking community, and a group of fans form to try to tackle the game.

As for ALcot and XUSE, I see your point but it just looks that way to me. Maybe this is all just a coincidence, or maybe its because of the points raised by an unregistered user. Either way, I still believe we're going to see a lot more fan translated stuff being licensed (nothing wrong with that) and almost no original titles (titles that require them to actually translate and not just check over)

Well, JAST USA's current lineup as far as we can tell:
Demonbane (only partially fan translated before being picked up)
OsaDai (pretty much fully fan translated before being picked up)
Aselia (fan translation not to be used, translation provided by XUSE, but still need to be polished)
Yumina (no previous existing translation)
OsaDai and Aselia started from contact initiated the original companies. As far as I can tell, Demonbane fan translators were contacted after talks with Nitro+ had started.

So yes, as JAST USA starts picking up new high-profile titles from new companies, there will be a higher chance of their having been a fan translation of said titles. However, that's more coincidence than anything else, since high profile titles tend to be more likely to spawn fan translation projects.

[VDZ]

MangaGamer upcoming non-nukige releases:
-Koihime Musou (original)
-Deardrops (original)
-Exclusive game (original)
-Kara no Shoujo [rumored] (active fan translation, finished)

JAST upcoming non-nukige releases:
-Eien no Aselia (finished fan translation, not used)
-Osadai (active fan translation, finished)
-Yumina (original)
-Demonbane (active fan translation)

Fan translations stalled due to non-confirmed release:
-Jingai Makyou (JAST, finished, unreleased)
-Dra+Koi (JAST, finished, unreleased)
-Chaos;HEad (JAST, finished, released)
-Sumaga (JAST, active)

If you were to disregard everything regarding actually having the original creators paid properly for the licensing and whatnot for a moment, we end up with only 1 title to be released by JAST that we wouldn't get from the fan translation community, and we're still waiting for at least 3 titles that would have already had a translation were it not for JAST licensing things.

OP's point is not that it's bad to license fan translated stuff, but that JAST should at least also release titles we weren't already going to get from fan translation (which is currently only Yumina). However, I must also point out that the current situation is an improvement over how it used to be; JAST releases many non-new titles now, but they used to spit out sex romps only. Actually bringing us Yumina is already great performance from JAST compared how they used to be. Look at it the other way around -- if those titles never had fan translations, JAST would only be releasing Yumina and a couple of sex romps now.

[zalas]

Originally Posted by VDZ

if those titles never had fan translations, JAST would only be releasing Yumina and a couple of sex romps now.

I still think OsaDai would've been licensed without a fan translation (since the creators obviously had some thoughts about a Western market when they produced it, c.f. the promo video, and they approached JAST USA, not the other way around) and Aselia would've been the same regardless of whether there was a fan translation or not. I agree that it's good JAST USA is at least diversifying its portfolio and bringing out more well-known titles.

[NTX]

Originally Posted by Strum

Fan translators represent the minority ie themselves. They translate games they want and not what people beg for, in forums and such. You can't really say that the games being worked on by fans are what the masses have been asking for.

There aren't "masses" in the first place. Anime is a niche, and visual novels are a niche within that niche.

Originally Posted by Strum

Have people even heard of those games before fan translators started working on it? (excluding games that have anime adaptation)

Mean no offense, but how long have you been a fan? A lot of projects are started due to fan hype (more of half of tlwiki's active projects list). As far as I remember, the only current fan-anticipated VN I didn't see mentioned around the boards (before its project started) is Yu-no.

[Moogy]

I'd like to point out that Demonbane would not have been a finished translation if it had not been licensed by JAST - Makoto only ever intended to do Al's route. You have the license to thank for the fact that you have 100% of the game instead of 50%.

Originally Posted by NTX

There aren't "masses" in the first place. Anime is a niche, and visual novels are a niche within that niche.

Masses are relative to the size of the visual novel community. I obviously don't mean the whole global population as a whole.

Originally Posted by NTX

Mean no offense, but how long have you been a fan? A lot of projects are started due to fan hype (more of half of tlwiki's active projects list). As far as I remember, the only current fan-anticipated VN I didn't see mentioned around the boards (before its project started) is Yu-no.

I started playing visual novels since the days of Runaway City, Three Sister Story and Seasons of Sakura the DOS version and not the memorial collection era. I myself am not aware of any hype from any of those games till fans decided to work on it. Then again, I suppose you could say I had my head in the sand for the past 10+ years.

[NTX]

Originally Posted by Strum

I started playing visual novels since the days of Runaway City, Three Sister Story and Seasons of Sakura the DOS version and not the memorial collection era. I myself am not aware of any hype from any of those games till fans decided to work on it. Then again, I suppose you could say I had my head in the sand for the past 10+ years.

Going down the tlwiki list (because I have the site open atm),
F/HA: sequel to one of the best selling vn's ever.
Katahane: Blogs (for me anyway)
Killer Queen: Think someone posted about this after they released the demo of their PS2 port 2 years ago.
Lamia: Hype due to a comic strip series, oddness of concept. Translation project followed.
Little Busters: Key game hype
Never7: Hype due to Ever17 popularity
Osadai: Went viral after the trailer was released - got a translator even before it came out
Princess Maker 5: Princess Maker series hype
Seinarukana: Anime-adaption-of-prequel hype
Sumaga: 2ch-liked-this-so-we-must-have-it-too hype
Yu-no: Wasn't there when the hype started; can't really say.

The other two I don't know anything about, but yes, fan translators mostly work on what the fans have been asking for. Our tastes are still the same. I don't know why you perceive a line between them in that matter.

[VDZ]

At Anime Expo 2009, JAST USA announced its partnership with Nitro+. Several days later, TLWiki Nitro+ projects were taken down because of the licensing.

Time since Anime Expo 2009: 2 years, 3 months, 28 days

Non-nukige titles JAST USA has released during that time: 2 (Family Project, Demonbane)

Fan translations taken down due to JAST licenses since AX09: 6 (Hanachirasu, Saya no Uta, Kikokugai, Sumaga, Osananajimi wa Daitouryou, Chaos;Head)

Nitro+ games released by JAST in those 2 years and 4 months that weren't already fan translated: 0

Check what moogy said. They've released 0,5 games that weren't fantranslated.
That and the fact that buying the rest of the games from JAST is the only way to realistically buy them at all is a big plus. As far as I'm concerned, the pros clearly outweight cons. That said, I'm not blind to the fact that Jast is becoming awfully lax with their release schedule.

[Stranger]

actually, I view the problem as being with the Japanese developer, they are slow. And to be honest, I can't blame them for dragging their feet and giving priority to their own projects. Have you seen the hinted to sale figures of MG releases?

either piracy is really a big problem in the west, and there really aren't that many English speaking eroge fans out there.

Edit: I am not trying to turn this into another piracy excuse thread and I hope it doesn't. The only real numbers are the sale figures, and they say that we are not worth the attention.