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General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

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  #136  
Old 2008-07-16, 14:13
bobmarley
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FGSFDS

You guys really don't read do you. Let's break this down.

When you download the game and run it for the FIRST TIME you are asked to enter an activation code.
The game then checks if the code is valid and then allows the game to be run. From then on you DON'T need to re-enter a code and you DO NOT need an internet connection each time you start the game up like j-List's V-Mate system.
However, in a similar way to Windows XP, if you significantly change your hardware, or re-build your system, you will have to re-activate the game by entering the code again.
You can do any combination of these things up to 5 times before the code becomes invalid.

I don't blame them for this at all as it helps reduce piracy. And 5 activations is pretty generous too unless you update and/or rebuild your computer a lot! Besides, I believe that, even if you go over this limit, you can e-mail MangaGamer and request a new code as long as you provide your order ID. This is much more friendly than J-List which requires you to log in and connect to the site each time you want to run the game!

As far as the translation thing goes, having a beta up would be logical if they're testing the payment system and activation system as well as the website itself, so they may have uploaded a test version of the games to see if it worked while they finalised the game for spelling/grammar errors. But to be honest, having spelling/grammar errors isn't a big deal really especially since they said they were going to fix any they find and release patches for it. Oh and look at the Bible Black game. That's filled to the brim with typos/mis-translated/untranslated/just plain missing bits of text, so don't complain about MangaGamer especially since English is apparently not their first language (the translaters of Bible Black, as far as I'm aware, were English so :P )
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  #137  
Old 2008-07-16, 16:56
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You obviously DON'T READ do YOU?

We were talking about how STEAM works, not Mangagamer's system.

Please, kindly go take your trolling to 4chan or elsewhere.
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  #138  
Old 2008-07-16, 17:06
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Also, your translation point(s) is(are) moot.

Firstly, you are saying that having errors with the usage of language is not a big deal in a piece of literature. I don't think I need to point out what's wrong with this.

From a personal standpoint, I wouldn't tolerate blatant errors at a moderate to high frequency in my books, why should I tolerate it in my Visual Novels?

Admittedly I haven't seen the Bible Black game, but your point here is again, moot.

If I see someone stealing from a shop (and get away with it), would it be okay for me to do the same just because they did it? Would it automatically guarantee I would get away with it?

I don't understand why people are using this "not their first language" thing as a shield. English is not my first language, but it would never excuse me from handing in a poorly written essay filled to the brim with comma splices, typographical errors, and common word misuse. Besides, much of the errors found can, as mentioned by others, easily have been fixed/caught via spellcheck or some other similar QC implementation--which does not require anyone to have English as their first language to use.

I don't think you should automatically doubting the translators' English skills either. If anything, it could be their Japanese skills that are in need of polishing, for all you or I know.
Besides, even if that were true, the fact that they would choose to hire someone not sufficiently proficient enough in English already says something about the company.
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  #139  
Old 2008-07-16, 17:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Using crack is ... modification of copyrighted property without express (written or otherwise) consent from the authors/owners.
Something that is perfectly legal, under copyright, so long as you do not redistribute it.
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  #140  
Old 2008-07-16, 17:33
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I never said it was illegal under copyright law

I only said it was modification of copyrighted material, which is illegal in some form or other in most developed countries under varying laws depending on what country you're in. (I say some form or other because apparently in some countries reverse engineering or educational purposes are exempt from punishments, while in others all instances of cracking are illegal, etc.)
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  #141  
Old 2008-07-16, 17:51
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if it is illegal, then how are you supposed to run the back up copy of your software which you have legal right to make?
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  #142  
Old 2008-07-16, 18:02
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Are you mistaking crack for something else entirely?
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  #143  
Old 2008-07-16, 18:09
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A No-CD crack is a modified executable file or a special "byte patcher" program that removes built-in CD check mechanisms allowing the user to run computer software without having to insert their required CD-ROM.

This act is a form of software cracking. No-CD cracks can be found on the Internet from various reverse engineering websites or file sharing networks. No-CD cracks have legal uses, such as creating backups of legally owned software (a user right by law in many countries) or avoiding the inconvenience of placing a CD or DVD-ROM in the drive every time the software is being used, although this can be used likewise to circumvent software laws by allowing the execution of full versions of non-legally owned applications or time-limited trials of the applications without the original disc.
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I was just saying that you can buy game, crack it, burn it and never need to run it trough the activation.
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  #144  
Old 2008-07-16, 18:11
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NoCD/NoDVD cracks are generally only useful for legitimate purchasers of the software anyway. Everyone else just uses a virtual DVD drive or something instead =p
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  #145  
Old 2008-07-16, 18:59
Roto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enerccio View Post
if it is illegal, then how are you supposed to run the back up copy of your software which you have legal right to make?
In the US, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act makes it illegal to circumvent controls intended to prevent unauthorized copying, even if you do so to make an authorized copy. There are a few exemptions, which I believe would allow you to crack the software should MangaGamer no longer exist (IANAL, not sure of this) but would not cover the case where you've legitimately needed to reinstall the software five times (plus the sixth you have to ask for) and MangaGamer refuses to give you another activation.
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  #146  
Old 2008-07-16, 19:21
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Quote:
if it is illegal, then how are you supposed to run the back up copy of your software which you have legal right to make?
That's why the laws are a matter of controversy. Basically, it's legal to make one backup copy for personal use, but it's illegal to circumvent copy protection (by and large, this renders the former condition moot).

Quote:
There are a few exemptions, which I believe would allow you to crack the software
Yeah, I think they made an exception for software that runs on very old platforms (no longer in wide use).
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  #147  
Old 2008-07-17, 00:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
You obviously DON'T READ do YOU?

We were talking about how STEAM works, not Mangagamer's system.

Please, kindly go take your trolling to 4chan or elsewhere.
You should better read.. He means the discussion BEFORE the Steam thing, the only one trolling here atm is you.

@the other unregistered
bobmarley 1st language is English :P If it doesn't bother him it's ok - it's HIS opinion. No need to be offending.

I don't see your points anyways. Stop whining about the translation (I have no problems with pointing out things, but this discussion has reached a spam level). If you aren't fine with the product then don't purchase it, end of story.

And as for the law thing. I checked the Dutch law and it's the same as in Germany. You may create private backup copies as long as your own the original, however for such online things the law isn't clear. On the one hand you have the property of the owner which nobody is allowed to mod (writing a crack, extracting the textfiles whatever), on the other hand you have the private copy thing again. I've found one similar case in the BGH (Bundes Gerichts Hof) and it decided for the company - it's a matter of opinion. Also is any of the posters from the EU here? You can trash the US law as it differs a bit.
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Last edited by mutio; 2008-07-17 at 00:22.
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  #148  
Old 2008-07-17, 00:31
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Now I'm curious. If a customer in the United States conducts business with a company in the European Union, under which jurisdiction does this fall under?
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  #149  
Old 2008-07-17, 00:35
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Internetshopping is a thing.. Normaly under that of the country where the company is located, so the EU law. There are also special international rules. But don't ask me about that, you start to deal with such stuff after the 8th Semester~ In Germany there's a special law for the international purchase, so I guess there's an EU law for that too.
Fact is just, better just don't modificate the games, and if you really have to do it just make sure you don't share it.
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Last edited by mutio; 2008-07-17 at 00:38.
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  #150  
Old 2008-07-17, 00:39
GreatSaintLouis GreatSaintLouis is offline
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Let's not bring the DMCA into this--that's a horribly broken piece of legislation designed for the profit of media congolomerates at the expense of the consumer. Fortunately, as MangaGamer seems to be located in Europe judging by their Euro-only pricelist, it's not at all applicable to this situation.

I wasn't trying to launch a discussion on the various ways one could attempt to circumvent the DRM on the games, I was just suggesting/wondering about one possible option for those not keen on the DRM and wanting a physical product at the same time. I wan't suggesting the translated game script be shared or uploaded or be used in any way that would violate MangaGamer's copyright, but knowing this community I'd be pretty naive to expect something like that not to happen, so maybe it's for the better if nobody figures it out.

"Backups of legally owned software" is, in my experience, an oxymoron. People might have a legal right to backing up software they own, but the only times I've ever seen this right fervently defended is by someone trying to rationalize why they deserve to have copies of software they don't own.
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