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  #1  
Old 2008-11-09, 18:54
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Default Please translate Sharin no Kuni :(

Sharin no Kuni, Himawari no Shoujo- my second favourite eroge of all time is being translated here. A quick glance at the translation will reveal pretty quickly what is happening to my Sharin. I know there's a lot of ordinary translation projects out there, but I really really love this game and can't stand to see this happening to it.

So, if you know the language, have played and liked the game and are willing to sacrifice a ridiculous amount of personal time to translating it, _please do_. I'm happy to give all the technical support required (I'm very familiar with the kirikiri engine, and in addition I've already done a lot of the work on translating menus and the like) so the only thing you'll have to do is translate the scripts.

I'd do it myself, but g-sen project :(((
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Old 2008-11-09, 22:36
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Yes, please translate it so:

a) I can play it
b) Asceai can focus on G-Senjou
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  #3  
Old 2008-11-10, 00:19
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I second this.
It seems to be a really good eroge from what I've seen of it so far.

I halted when I realized after translating the first chapter, that I'm staining this gem. So don't worry about the bad quality, if that's what you were implying with "what is happening to it".
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  #4  
Old 2008-11-10, 06:46
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I disagree, I think EusthEnoptEron is doing fine with Sharin (or was doing fine since he stopped). We need someone to blast through it and do a first pass translation, then others who know Japanese can jump in and edit the hell out of the thing. It would take forever for anyone to do it perfectly in one pass, and given EusthEnoptEron blasted through the first chapter in less than 2 weeks, I really hope he can keep working on it.
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Old 2008-11-10, 07:26
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Off topic, perhaps, but while this seems to be a pretty common way of organizing things, I don't understand the point of doing a "first blast" translation and then having other people fix it all through editing. Why isn't it faster to try getting it as close as possible the first time? I would personally find it a lot more frustrating and unnatural to clean up sloppy text than to translate from scratch.
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  #6  
Old 2008-11-10, 09:14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagger View Post
Off topic, perhaps, but while this seems to be a pretty common way of organizing things, I don't understand the point of doing a "first blast" translation and then having other people fix it all through editing. Why isn't it faster to try getting it as close as possible the first time? I would personally find it a lot more frustrating and unnatural to clean up sloppy text than to translate from scratch.
Well, surely it's better to get an as-good-as-possible translation the first time. But then again, what if the translator just doesn't have the skills to do so?
Of course he could leave it to the more experienced ones, but there aren't enough of those.
So, in my opinion it's better when there's at least a raw translation, which can be edited to a mediocre-translation (I think around C/B-3 should do to have fun with the game) than none at all.
Or just aim for being better than MangaGamer. :D

Quote:
I disagree, I think EusthEnoptEron is doing fine with Sharin (or was doing fine since he stopped). We need someone to blast through it and do a first pass translation, then others who know Japanese can jump in and edit the hell out of the thing. It would take forever for anyone to do it perfectly in one pass, and given EusthEnoptEron blasted through the first chapter in less than 2 weeks, I really hope he can keep working on it.
Thanks, I plan to continue some time. But I want to acquire a higher standard first - Japanese as well as English-wise.

And to look at the topic again, the standard-answer would be, that it's pretty much pointless to ask for a translation.
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Old 2008-11-10, 11:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagger View Post
Off topic, perhaps, but while this seems to be a pretty common way of organizing things, I don't understand the point of doing a "first blast" translation and then having other people fix it all through editing. Why isn't it faster to try getting it as close as possible the first time? I would personally find it a lot more frustrating and unnatural to clean up sloppy text than to translate from scratch.
A while ago, I've written something about how projects are organized typically, which touches on the process in passing.

The core notion is that multiple passes is an unavoidable fact of life. I doubt even pros can do the lengths of text that we do in a single pass, let alone green amateurs. I'd hope that all translators try to do the best that they can on the first run, but no matter how hard we try, when we look at the script a second time, we're going to find all sorts of things that "aren't right".

For myself, I'll go through my scripts in multiple passes. People might call them "editing" passes, but I'm really translating all but the most obvious lines a second or third time while editing things. Rearranging the sentence structure, adjusting the tone, substituting a loaded word with another word, that all requires looking back at the original and making new translation decisions. It's not something that's "easily edited away."

"First blast" translations probably should never see the light of day. The second and third passes are just as important. The only thing that's unforgivable is if people slack off on the first one, since the more thought's been put in on the first, the clearer, smoother, and faster the subsequent passes are.
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  #8  
Old 2008-11-10, 15:38
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Oh, sure, I agree with that. The same holds true for writing in general, as well as translation. It's just that I think it makes more sense to have the same person do those multiple passes, as you mentioned, except for final proofreading and so forth.
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  #9  
Old 2009-03-27, 02:57
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I'd translate/help in translating this game, but...!
I'm not an English native speaker.
Transferring the meaning of the original Japanese to English, sure, okay, not much of a problem; but producing well-written prose in anything except my own native language? Unfortunately, no way...
Things like casual conversation, or slang, stuff like that, are out of my reach. It would always sound like somewhat artificial English, which doesn't hold up to *my own* standards.

I could do some kind of translation checking though, or "raw" translation. But a native speaker would still definitely need to revise the script.
Or I could translate to German lol...-_- but are there more than 10 people who read visual novels and are fluent in German anyway?
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Old 2009-03-27, 05:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lv99JackFrost View Post
I'd translate/help in translating this game, but...!
I'm not an English native speaker.
Transferring the meaning of the original Japanese to English, sure, okay, not much of a problem; but producing well-written prose in anything except my own native language? Unfortunately, no way...
Things like casual conversation, or slang, stuff like that, are out of my reach. It would always sound like somewhat artificial English, which doesn't hold up to *my own* standards.

I could do some kind of translation checking though, or "raw" translation. But a native speaker would still definitely need to revise the script.
Or I could translate to German lol...-_- but are there more than 10 people who read visual novels and are fluent in German anyway?
That's why good translation team needs editors who are native speakers. They turn all your Engrish into English.

Last edited by LoSs; 2009-03-27 at 05:20.
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Old 2009-03-27, 17:06
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Originally Posted by LoSs View Post
That's why good translation team needs editors who are native speakers. They turn all your Engrish into English.
Assuming that either the editors know Japanese or that the Engrish isn't misleading. It's okay if the original translator knows to write verbosely because he/she knows he can't convey the meaning fully, but sometimes, the original translator may end up writing something that makes sense to him/her but actually means something totally different when read by someone else.
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  #12  
Old 2009-03-27, 17:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lv99JackFrost View Post
I'd translate/help in translating this game, but...!
I'm not an English native speaker.
Transferring the meaning of the original Japanese to English, sure, okay, not much of a problem; but producing well-written prose in anything except my own native language? Unfortunately, no way...
Things like casual conversation, or slang, stuff like that, are out of my reach. It would always sound like somewhat artificial English, which doesn't hold up to *my own* standards.

I could do some kind of translation checking though, or "raw" translation. But a native speaker would still definitely need to revise the script.
Or I could translate to German lol...-_- but are there more than 10 people who read visual novels and are fluent in German anyway?
I could help with the editing if you're serious about the project. (Although due to financial reasons I make it a point to not buy games I can't understand, so I don't own this title atm)

Even though I am not a native speaker of English either I've lived in an English speaking environment for more than half my life and have no problems on the language front.
I also know enough kanjis (through Chinese) to realize if a sentence is mistranslated.

(Although, judging from your post, your English isn't all that bad ;P)
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  #13  
Old 2009-03-27, 18:21
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Hey, if you want to translate something, it's going to be in German, why not? There's got to be an audience out there somewhere. Many translation companies often boast about having people only translate -into- their mother/native language -- it does make an important difference in many cases. Also, if you're just translating for the praise you'd get from your audience, it's highly unlikely you'll survive to the end of the script.

Anyways...

There are a few groups out there that use the "translator -> translator's translator" model to do thing, in some cases it works, so I don't want to say it's impossible or necessarily bad. However, there's one really great danger that you need to constantly think about.

I've seen example scripts from some of these groups, and the most dangerous error is when the 1st translate uses an English word incorrectly, then the second translator doesn't have their head screwed on right, and runs with that incorrect word "making it pretty". What comes out is this totally insane sentence that kind of fits, but not quite, and has nothing to do with the original.

It takes a special kind of writing, and reading between the two translators to pull this off. Imagine it this way. Draw a simple picture on a piece of paper. Then call up a friend on the phone. Describe the picture to them, and ask them to draw what you're describing.

If you're lucky, your friend will ask you questions about things that you aren't being clear about. If you're not lucky, they go "uh huh, yeah, okay, got it".

Either way, compare that picture to the original the next day, and see just how different things can be. This pair-translation is exactly like this process. It can work, if you work very very close together. However, you need to find the right person to work with, not just some random guy on the Internet.
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  #14  
Old 2009-04-01, 02:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agilis View Post
Hey, if you want to translate something, it's going to be in German, why not? There's got to be an audience out there somewhere. Many translation companies often boast about having people only translate -into- their mother/native language -- it does make an important difference in many cases. Also, if you're just translating for the praise you'd get from your audience, it's highly unlikely you'll survive to the end of the script.

Anyways...

There are a few groups out there that use the "translator -> translator's translator" model to do thing, in some cases it works, so I don't want to say it's impossible or necessarily bad. However, there's one really great danger that you need to constantly think about.

I've seen example scripts from some of these groups, and the most dangerous error is when the 1st translate uses an English word incorrectly, then the second translator doesn't have their head screwed on right, and runs with that incorrect word "making it pretty". What comes out is this totally insane sentence that kind of fits, but not quite, and has nothing to do with the original.

It takes a special kind of writing, and reading between the two translators to pull this off. Imagine it this way. Draw a simple picture on a piece of paper. Then call up a friend on the phone. Describe the picture to them, and ask them to draw what you're describing.

If you're lucky, your friend will ask you questions about things that you aren't being clear about. If you're not lucky, they go "uh huh, yeah, okay, got it".

Either way, compare that picture to the original the next day, and see just how different things can be. This pair-translation is exactly like this process. It can work, if you work very very close together. However, you need to find the right person to work with, not just some random guy on the Internet.
Thank you for the very insightful comments, Agilis. I also read pretty much everything on the topic you wrote on your(?) site, and I can't myself than say "you're right".
Personally, I tried J->E and J->G, latter one is way more efficient. And since it's pretty much something for the fun of it, why shouldn't I go that way, you're totally right...

Not to forget, as the original translator said earlier in this thread, he didn't want to stain this work. After sitting myself down with the script for a while I thought exactly the same.
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Old 2009-04-01, 04:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lv99JackFrost View Post
Thank you for the very insightful comments, Agilis. I also read pretty much everything on the topic you wrote on your(?) site, and I can't myself than say "you're right".
Personally, I tried J->E and J->G, latter one is way more efficient. And since it's pretty much something for the fun of it, why shouldn't I go that way, you're totally right...

Not to forget, as the original translator said earlier in this thread, he didn't want to stain this work. After sitting myself down with the script for a while I thought exactly the same.
I agree with you concerning the easier flow when using one's mother tongue (that is, unless you've mastered your second/third one).
You could also think of J->G as a way to broaden the German fanbase, what I'd love to see.


Quote:
Or I could translate to German lol...-_- but are there more than 10 people who read visual novels and are fluent in German anyway?
I can think of about 11 persons (including you and me, though...). :D
And as mentioned above, if you were to release a patch in German, the amount of people playing something like this would increase (probably). Although I also doubt that there'd be that much feedback.

On a similar note, I'm currently even thinking of creating a platform for german VN readers to come together and discuss them. But my endless to-read-queue is going against me. ;]
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