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General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

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  #1  
Old 2005-04-25, 19:47
DemonOfElru
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Default Kanon: Why does everyone say...

... That Kanon is depressing? I'm not sure what to make of Mai's ending, but all the other stories had distinctly happy, fairy tale-like endings.
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Old 2005-04-25, 22:00
Tagan Tagan is offline
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Oops. Completely misread the message and posted a repsonse....Nevermind this. I need to get some sleep before my brain does anything else that is stupid. ^^;;....


Message after re-reading the message: Not sure, can't say so myself.
Mainly because I can't speak a word of Japanese. So I can only play to how far the patch goes. Although from the anime I got the impression that Shiori and Makoto die. Not sure if this happens in the game or not.

P.S: I shouldn't say 'I can't speak a word of Japanese' so much as I 'can't READ a word of japanese', since I actually can SPEAK quite a few words, reading, however, is a totally different matter.
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Old 2005-04-25, 22:16
AetherParadigm AetherParadigm is offline
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Well, they're all heart-wrenching stories, really. I think tho the only depressing part is knowing what happens to everyone else once you've picked one path (esp. Nayuki's story, *sniff*)
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  #4  
Old 2005-04-25, 22:34
Keisuke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonOfElru
... That Kanon is depressing? I'm not sure what to make of Mai's ending, but all the other stories had distinctly happy, fairy tale-like endings.
I don't think Makoto's ending was a "happy" ending. =/
  #5  
Old 2005-04-25, 22:49
AzureLight
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I think it depends on what you feel about it. Shiori's was vague as hell and leaves you questions if you're thick. Mai was... well, maybe you'd expected it earlier if you had experience. Makoto's was sad, no doubt about it (well, you can argue that she finally did what she wanted to do thus satisfying her), Ayu's... geh. Nayuki was to me a bit weird because Yuuichi went a bit out of character for that.

Then again who am I to say. I've barely passed the 4th day playing it.
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Old 2005-04-25, 23:34
DemonOfElru
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"Shiori's was vague as hell and leaves you questions if you're thick. Mai was... well, maybe you'd expected it earlier if you had experience. Makoto's was sad, no doubt about it (well, you can argue that she finally did what she wanted to do thus satisfying her), Ayu's... geh. Nayuki was to me a bit weird because Yuuichi went a bit out of character for that."

Obvious spoilers abound:

Jryy lrf, ohg veerfcrpgvir bs ubj inthr Fuvbev'f raqvat jnf, vg jnf fgvyy unccl. Ure zvenpyr unccraf, fur fheivirf ure vyyarff, naq lbh'er erhavgrq jvgu ure. Fvzvyne guvatf unccra jvgu Nlh (jub jnxrf hc va ubfcvgny nsgre ure fhccbfrq ynfg snerjryy) naq Znv (jub fbzrubj erpbiref sebz ure fjbeq jbhaq) - Xnaba pynvzf gung 'gurl'er pnyyrq zvenpyrf orpnhfr gurl qba'g unccra', ohg zvenpyrf pnc bss whfg nobhg rirelbar'f fgbelyvarf. Zl irefvba bs Xnaba zrffrq hc gur grkg qhevat Znxbgb'f raqvat, fb V'z abg dhvgr fher jung unccrarq - ohg gur raqvat fubg bs ure ylvat ba gur uvyyf jvgu Cveb fhttrfgf gb zr gung fbzrguvat fvzvyne bppherq jvgu ure (pbeerpg zr vs V'z jebat).

I suppose you could argue that Kanon is depressing insofar as that you can only really claim a miracle for one girl, but the plot really phases the others out as it progresses, thus concentrating only on the happy, rather than the sad. I just can't understand the comments I've heard around the internet about it being an unequivocally sad game - it's heart wrenching, to be sure, but the endings are all about putting a smile on the player's face.
  #7  
Old 2005-04-26, 00:41
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Haeleth Haeleth is offline
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I've rot13'd your spoilers, hope you'll forgive me. ^^

I think the main reason Western fans view Kanon as "depressing" is that they haven't played it, so the misunderstanding spreads very easily. Kind of like the "Key's games are the four seasons" meme, which generally begins with the crazy claim that ONE is set in the autumn/fall.

The other thing is that a lot of people who have played the game prefer to pretend the epilogues never happened. Someone at Key, probably Hisaya since it doesn't really happen in AIR, was obviously obsessed with happy endings.

Take away the epilogues, and you definitely do have the depressing game of myth. Arguably a superior one, too...
  #8  
Old 2005-04-26, 02:02
DemonOfElru
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That's fine - thanks. I'd have done something similar, if I knew how. ^^

As for the epilogues, though: I can understand why people'd prefer to ignore them, but then, most of the stories don't have any real sense of closure without them. I get what you're saying, and I even agree to an extent, but at the same time, I know I'd have been very irritated to reach the end of any given Kanon story and see the narrative stop without any attempt at tying up loose ends.

Semi-spoilers, I guess ^^;

I mean, the epilogues do tend to detract from the poignancy of the various Kanon stories, but without those epilogues, the story just leaves Yuuichi hanging. You don't know how he's going to react to what's happened or how he'll cope with what he's experienced - the story just stops. In Ayu's case, the pre-epilogue ending is all the more unsatisfying because it leaves unanswered the question of jung rknpgyl unccrarq gb Nlh'f pbzngbfr obql. Lbh xabj vg'f bhg gurer, nsgre nyy.
  #9  
Old 2005-04-26, 04:54
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Haeleth Haeleth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonOfElru
That's fine - thanks. I'd have done something similar, if I knew how. ^^
Just copy & paste into http://tools.geht.net/rot13.html.

I guess my ideal Kanon would be one where all the endings were like Shiori's bad ending - the story plays itself out in the most pessimistic way, and we get sufficient closure, I think, from seeing Yuuichi left without any.

But maybe I just hate Yuuichi. ;)
  #10  
Old 2005-04-26, 05:08
DemonOfElru
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Kanon actually has bad endings? I thought it was the epilogues or bust, but then, I've only played through once for each character, and my Japanese is rudimentary at best.

As for Yuuichi - I really wanted to smack the guy on occasion.
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Old 2005-04-26, 07:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonOfElru
As for Yuuichi - I really wanted to smack the guy on occasion.
Seconded. Even I have a better memory than that guy. Yuuichi's proven himself a JERK on more then one occasion.

But his actions in the Shiori ending make up for it.

"Tabasco?"

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  #12  
Old 2005-04-26, 11:06
GreatSaintLouis GreatSaintLouis is offline
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My take, such as it can be after having only seen the anime, played through Haeleth's patch and a small ways farther in Japanese, is that it's considered a sad game not because of the endings, but because of the story before the endings. There's a sufficient amount of tension and drama that could definately be considered 'heart-wrenching', i.e. jura gur fgbel vf gbyq bs Nlh'f snyyvat sebz gur gerr, ohg orsber gur cynlre ernyvmrf vg jnf abg sngny, especially if the player is extremely involved in the story (which I suppose is a striving point for this genre of game). So in my opinion, there's definately the fairy-tale endings full of miracles, but the path you take to get there could definately tug at the proverbial heartstrings.

Or maybe I should just settle down and not get so involved in games I play.
  #13  
Old 2005-04-27, 07:14
AetherParadigm AetherParadigm is offline
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I agree, even the pre-ending story is pretty heart wrenching, and I think Demon said sorta what I meant, that the depressing part is that you can only grant a miracle to one girl. And Makoto's story is still not exactly happy, tho I'll still say Nayuki's is saddest just because of how mean you have to be to the other girls, gung, naq, qrfcvgr chggvat hc jvgu rirelguvat sebz Lhhvpuv, Anlhxv vf gur bayl tvey jub jba'g qvr vs lbh qba'g pubbfr ure.
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  #14  
Old 2005-04-29, 13:09
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yea, I myself have only seen the anime and played through the patch, but i can agree its probably considered sad because of how the storys all play out right before the ending where your character of choice is granted the miracle.

I had a lot of fun playing with the makoto path, not sadness but maybe thats just cuz she's spunky. :) then i saw the anime, and was nearly heartbroken.

Same with Ayu and Mai's path.
  #15  
Old 2005-04-30, 06:12
Aldareon Aldareon is offline
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In that case .. for those that have played the game, what do you believe should be the ideal playing order of characters for those that don't want to complete the whole game being left with a heavy heart? I understand that the order would have some variation due to character preference, but I'm just curious.
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