gemot encubed  

Go Back   gemot encubed > Gemot > General Discussion

General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 2006-09-22, 10:37
feeling_the_heart's Avatar
feeling_the_heart feeling_the_heart is offline
Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 33
Send a message via MSN to feeling_the_heart Send a message via Yahoo to feeling_the_heart
Default Making a h game

Do you ever known how to make love simulation game from beginning? If you know tell me, how to make it. Thx. That all. I appreciate who want to help?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2006-09-22, 11:34
Haeleth's Avatar
Haeleth Haeleth is offline
Ex-boss
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: England
Posts: 2,106
Default

It's fairly easy if you use something like Ren'Py, which is a dedicated tool for creating games like this. There are tutorials there, and also a forum where all kinds of people discuss how to make these games.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2006-09-25, 14:12
DaFool
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I think the bigger question is if I make something, will people besides fellow gamemakers play it?

The crucial tests would be if haeleth forum people play it, if insani people play it, if the general eroge community play it, if others in the anime community play it.

I've narrowed it down to crucial factors

1.) Japanese anime style. Since just about the only exposures I had to visual novels (nevermind eroge) are Japanese in origin.
This means:
- a.) character design that's moe
- b.) storytelling technique that's oriental.

b.) is harder to achieve because I can use Korean animation as an example (meaning, original / non-outsourced work). The style is anime, but the storytelling is not. So I cannot be interested. Same with U.S. and French cartoons in anime style. (But I think neither one of them got moe characters either.)

So there leaves the other thing...
- c.) sexual content. Some of the dating sims in newgrounds got millions of hits, but I don't think those are focused hits, even among the anime community even. Just like there are quite some people who watch hentai who don't care for general anime. (Just look at how hentai torrents hosted in non-anime sites are so well-seeded!) This community is the opposite, this is a more focused community who come from the general anime community.

To achieve these things, I know I cannot do loli (since it's illegal in almost all countires -- and it's not my thing either)

...which leaves big breasts.

....


... big breasts it is then.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2006-09-25, 20:44
zalas zalas is offline
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: fushigi misuterii
Posts: 1,831
Send a message via ICQ to zalas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFool
I think the bigger question is if I make something, will people besides fellow gamemakers play it?

The crucial tests would be if haeleth forum people play it, if insani people play it, if the general eroge community play it, if others in the anime community play it.

I've narrowed it down to crucial factors

1.) Japanese anime style. Since just about the only exposures I had to visual novels (nevermind eroge) are Japanese in origin.
This means:
- a.) character design that's moe
- b.) storytelling technique that's oriental.
You're starting to fall into the "AmeriManga" trap here. Keep track of what's the medium and what's the style. Don't use styles just because "that's what's popular." Use styles only if you have a logical purpose to. For example, if you feel the nakige recipe is very effective at getting your reader attached to your characters and eliciting a strong emotional response, then use it. Don't use the nakige recipe because "it's popular." Furthermore, unless you have grown up in Japan, it's very hard to give your story, characterization and art a very believable "Japanese" style. Why not focus on what you are good at?

And lastly, keep in mind that even though you are writing a visual novel, you are still writing. Don't discount ideas and writing techniques simply because "they aren't Japanese enough."
__________________
~Yoda is waiting in the air~ | HAVEN
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2006-09-25, 20:55
someone out there
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I can't wait to see what these guys can come up with. As much as I appreciate the fan community's efforts, and disdain the poor imitations on newgrounds, I wonder if someone can combine the quality of the former, and the H-qualities of the latter, to make a truly good fan-based H visual novel.

The only thing that was close to this was OMGWTFOTL. Save it didn't have any real H-content, but it was relatively funny.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2006-09-25, 21:01
Agilis's Avatar
Agilis Agilis is offline
Obsessive
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: #denpa@irc.synirc.org
Posts: 405
Send a message via AIM to Agilis
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFool
I've narrowed it down to crucial factors

1.) Japanese anime style. Since just about the only exposures I had to visual novels (nevermind eroge) are Japanese in origin.
This means:
- a.) character design that's moe
- b.) storytelling technique that's oriental.
...
- c.) sexual content.
...
Okay I simply don't get this.

I was under the impression that for creative endeavors, one of the more effective techniques is to start close to what you know, ground yourself, and then create from there. Otherwise you'll just irritate the living daylights out of anyone who knows slightly more about any random facet you misrepresent.

Oh sure, great authors have made up all sorts of fantastical nonsense in the past. But if you're going to make things up wholesale, you'd better back it up with a truckload of writing ability to make the reader forgive you for it.

And why exactly must one use an "oriental storytelling technique"? In fact, is there even a sensible definition of the term? I grew up bilingual english/chinese, and I have no clue what you're talking about. I'll also openly admit I never formally studied comparative literature so if you know the difference kindly enlighten me.

VNs are a medium. Perceptions of different media vary culture by culture. Uses of various media vary culture to culture. Blind imitation upon something you're probably not capable of competently imitating to begin with is as likely to invite disgust from the (semi-)informed masses who are your target audience as you are to be tolerated.

Long story short, a medium is something to apply your vision to in order to creat something, not something you apply to your vision.

One thing they hammered into me at graduate school: "In good research, the Questions come before the Methods."
__________________
www.neechin.net @aginyan Narcissu 2 Eng #denpa@synirc.org
Shares of bridge for sale: $590 a share. Funded by: "did you really say that just now?"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2006-09-25, 23:19
Carl Carl is offline
Obsessive
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 551
Send a message via MSN to Carl
Default

If it's good, there will be people who take the time to play it. How many will depend, but there will always be some. If you're after popularity rather than quality, then the product will end up very different.

Personally I really enjoy moe and the Japanese cultural perspective, but that doesn't mean I'd like to see people trying in vain to emulate it. People should tell their own stories.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2006-09-26, 00:14
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You're concerned about having an audience, but...

Do you really the people reading your [English] visual novel will be Japanese?

Presuming for a moment there is 'oriental storytelling', your audience is most likely western anyway, so what does it matter?
Unless you just want to pander to those with narrow tastes who are obsessed with anything Japanese.

Good creative works come from wanting to express something. There should be a story you want to tell, an image you want to express. You're looking at the whole thing backwards by starting at the fans.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2006-09-26, 01:35
JRaiKetchum's Avatar
JRaiKetchum JRaiKetchum is offline
Obsessive
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Central WV
Posts: 308
Send a message via AIM to JRaiKetchum Send a message via Yahoo to JRaiKetchum
Default

A few words of thought:

1) Don't just consider loli and/or big breasts to be the only thing that is moe... that's just Mikuru-chan XD Moe is a vast generalized topic depending on who you talk to. According to Ken Akamatsu of Love Hina fame, it's a suppressed maternal instinct of wanting to protect rather than a sexual attraction; cases in point: Ayu and Misuzu. (And if you are able to find the translated version of his validation he did in his journal it is really interesting to read ^^) By everyone else, to quote Haruhi Suzumiya... turn-ons. Anything can turn someone on like glasses, tsundere, speech impediment, shyness, etc. So don't think you are limited to just loli and kyonyuu.

2) Story means nothing if you can't catch the readers attention storywise! You may throw all the eyecandy in you can but if there is no substance to the story to hold their attention, then it's as good as gone.

3) Related to 2, write what you are comfortable with. If you can write in an anime-like style, go for it. If you are not comfortable with the style, it will show strongly in your work. Keep this in mind.

Hope this helps y'all ;)

Ja, ne
-Rai
__________________
Breathe Deep.
The answers are all around you.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2006-09-26, 04:43
DaFool
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I appreciate the straightforward responses; those are what I have been looking for.

I asked it originally because my only exposure to eroge / visual novels was in the Japanese style. Sure, they may be great Chinese or German visual novels out there, but I never saw any of them, thus I don't know exactly what the larger (international) conventions for visual novels should be.

There are books on drawing on anime style. There are books on literary writing. But there are no books on how to create visual novels (only short articles), at least not in a language that I can understand.

Then it becomes a question of medium versus the message. I don't know how to reconcile that. For example, there are those who argue that Narcissu would have been better off as straight prose, not as a visual novel. If ever, I do have an original message to convey, so its not like I'm pandering to anybody. I am just poking about learning about what rules to break---if any---in conveying that message.

And yes, I specifically avoid schoolgirl settings as a matter of principle. But that doesn't mean if anyone really really wanted to do a schoolgirl setting that they should be prohibited to do so because it's cliche.

Then theres the question of style. Case in point Kemonozume. It definitely is not moe, but the style fits the story perfectly. That is definitely something I am considering...right now I am wavering between having an atmosphere either gritty (action-violence) or slice-of-life. In my observations of what's been done before, moe is easiest to work with slice-of-life. But I am open to see if conventions can be superseded.

I risk sounding like a forum retard everytime I make posts with generalizations. But this has really done its job and I really appreciate and learn from the responses. Thank you. (and feel free to add more)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2006-09-26, 08:02
feeling_the_heart's Avatar