Your opinion on the H scenes.. (and Air squeeing in general)

Okay, the primary reason for this post is to squee about Air, since I just got it a coupla days ago (christmas present... why wait though XD;; *impatient*), but barely anyone I know has heard of it or knows what I'm on about when I mention it ;_;

Anyway. I played through it with CR's english patch, to which I now feel indebted ^^. I was a little unsure about playing it with a partial patch, but then I figured that the... is it 20% that's done? I figured that 20% would be 20% more than I know (I could probably recognize about 20 kanji tops XD;), so played it with that. Admittedly I first got Kano's scenario and the translation ran out pretty quickly for that, and with her I couldn't get an ending anyway (I musta sat there for an hour or so replaying through my most recent save back then to do something, -anything- to change whatever I'd done wrong ^,^. Fail.)... I was like, okay, so the second time through I decided to be as determined as possible to go for Misuzu, since I knew that most was translated for her.

So I managed that (managed to avoid ye dreaded "I decided to stop sponging off Haruko and Misuzu and leave. Blargh." 'ending' \o/), and it's amazing how my opinions changed over the path of playing... when I first started playing I wanted to hit Yukito (ass *WHACK*), and from what I'd seen/heard of the Air girls, I'd expected them to be different somehow... I didn't expect Misuzu to be so childlike (though obviously...), and I thought Minagi would be less spacy ^_^... however, over Misuzu's path it went from me being like "okay, you're ditzy, I get the point", to Yukito actually turning into a decent person in my eyes, and then it was like... no wait, I really do actually like Misuzu here... LOVE FOR MISUZU

So it went on, and I played through the last part of her path with near-expectant tears in my eyes, I'll admit ^^. Then it goes on, and on... annnnnd then you reach the H scene.

(Yes, I'm getting to the point now)

Okay, maybe it's a bit of a moot point to bring up, since a lot of people's opinions are that the girls of Air, Kanon, etc seem much too pure and innocent for such things to happen, it spoils their view of them, etc... and admittedly even I was a little "O_o" at the prospect of Misuzu having H scenes when I began, since she's established as being so childlike, and everything... but... I don't know, I don't know if there's any way to word how it felt without sounding like a "My entire life is the computer and I fall in love with computer-generated graphics" sort of thing (XD;;), but... while okay it may be kinda weird to have these girls in H scenes, destroys the pure image of them in our minds and stuff... surely the point of the games (or one of them anyway) is to build up a kind of mental relationship with these girls, to get to know them and feel for them (and damn if I wasn't feeling for Misuzu by that point)... surely the H scenes are there as like... the deepening of the 'relationship' (as it is), kinda of... dammit, I can't explain it. Maybe somebody else knows what I mean, how I mean it?

I can't really speak as far as for Air, but... I guess one thing that does sort of creep me about the H scenes in Kanon is just their expressions during it... the girls always look so scared and unsure, and okay, it's their first time, they're not gonna be all "C'MERE YUUICHI/YUKITO *HORN*", but... happy fun bodily unity thing going on, smile a bit?

I guess I can't help but wonder what the scene with Misuzu would have been like translated, but it was enough to understand what happened before and afterward and have the feelings there... but having played quite a few hentai games before, makes me wonder how the dialogue and stuff is handled in Kanon/Air/more tasteful games than, y'know, 'Do You Like Horny Bunnies' and stuff, where you can't believe the girls have managed to get -this- far remaining virgins...

Still, I felt more for Misuzu than I did for Kano despite seeing Kano's scenes first... I suppose it's because I understood a lot more of what was going on with Misuzu, really. With Kano it was more "She's happy! She's sad. She's blushing! She's happy. She's still happy! She's sad."... aaa, western culture needs to embrace these games, they rock, dammit.

Couldn't help but notice though, in the music room... not all the songs from the CD are there? The one I noticed most not being there was that vocal that isn't the OP song or the ED song... I've listened to the music a lot these past few days XD almost considered taking the disk to school with me to listen on the way there and back, but... aa, it's a bit precious for that. Still, I figured that other song would be an insert song at some point (was sort of expecting it at some point to the end of Misuzu's scenario)... when does it come up? If it's a spoiler then it's okay, but some idea of what scenario it pops up in would be nice ^^. Such a pretty song. Hell, they're -all- pretty songs... I can't get sick of Misuzu's theme, especially. Minagi's theme suprised me though, from her appearence I thought her theme tune would be a little less... sparkly, I suppose (ahaha, and just as I start typing about Minagi, her music comes up on my CD player. Mina~gii~). I'll admit, I worried when Mi... Michiru? The little hyper girl, when she first showed up. I don't want any H scenes with her in, something like that WOULD disturb me XO

It was hard to get Misuzu's scenario, and even now I don't know if there are things I did wrong and if there are other endings for her (I only got like... five or six of her entire CG collection, though I have a good proportion of Kano's gallery filled)... and I have no idea how I'd go about getting Minagi's scenario XD;;;

Haruko rocks. I'd rather have Akiko as a mother, but... Haruko rocks.

Anyone know if there are any Air artbooks or anything out there? JPQueen has a bunch of Kanon manga and stuff up (which I plan to nab when I'm next ordering stuff for christmas), but... when I did a search for Air it came up with a whole bunch of unrelated things, I suppose because it's such a common word ^^;. Of course, there might not be anything out there to search for. Anyone got any info on things like that? I'd quite like some Air things to look at while I sit happily in bed~ (plus I'm on more of an Air kick at the moment than I am Kanon XD)

I want to make avatars with "You need Air to breathe" on them <3. Just a random little point there, but... I thought it'd make a cool game slogan or something XD

Hum, I think that's all I was going to say. I wouldn't want to start yet another thread suddenly, I seem to be doing that often these days XD;;. But, I needed somewhere to let all my gushing on Air loose <3. Sorry ^^;

Oh yeah. Anyone know who'll be up for the voices in the upcoming Air anime/film/etc? I saw a movie preview thingie, and Yukito's voice was rawr~. Kinda recognize it. Not sure where to look to find out about voices. Oh my, if Mitsuaki Madono was in it... (random, he's not going to be in it. But I'd salivate if it was)

[Haeleth]

I guess I can't help but wonder what the scene with Misuzu would have been like translated

Lame. Key's writing is normally pretty good for games, but their H scenes are awful. I won't go into details in case there are kids reading this (although with a subject like this they jolly well shouldn't be), but basically they go to extraordinary lengths to avoid actually referring to anything directly. It's all "my thing" and "those two swellings on her chest". Really.

Couldn't help but notice though, in the music room... not all the songs from the CD are there? The one I noticed most not being there was that vocal that isn't the OP song or the ED song...

You unlock more songs in the music room as you progress through the game. You don't get access to them all till you clear the whole thing. I guess Key didn't think anyone would think of playing the CD normally. :p

The song you're thinking of is "Aozora", which is played in the climax at the end of the final scenario "AIR". You'll get to it in a year or so. ;)

I'll admit, I worried when Mi... Michiru? The little hyper girl, when she first showed up. I don't want any H scenes with her in, something like that WOULD disturb me XO

Fortunately Key don't do loli... well, I guess most of their girls tend that way, actually, but they don't do really underage stuff. Michiru stays pure, fear not.

It was hard to get Misuzu's scenario, and even now I don't know if there are things I did wrong and if there are other endings for her (I only got like... five or six of her entire CG collection, though I have a good proportion of Kano's gallery filled)...

If you saw the credits, you got the proper ending for Misuzu in "Dream". Most of her CGs don't appear till "AIR", and you'll have to win Kano and Minagi and play through "Summer" before you can even unlock "AIR".

Oh yeah. Anyone know who'll be up for the voices in the upcoming Air anime/film/etc?

For info on that in English I'd go to Zalas' site. Scroll down and there's a "movie cast" section.

Originally Posted by Tabi

Anyway. I played through it with CR's english patch, to which I now feel indebted ^^. I was a little unsure about playing it with a partial patch, but then I figured that the... is it 20% that's done? I figured that 20% would be 20% more than I know (I could probably recognize about 20 kanji tops XD;), so played it with that. Admittedly I first got Kano's scenario and the translation ran out pretty quickly for that, and with her I couldn't get an ending anyway (I musta sat there for an hour or so replaying through my most recent save back then to do something, -anything- to change whatever I'd done wrong ^,^. Fail.)... I was like, okay, so the second time through I decided to be as determined as possible to go for Misuzu, since I knew that most was translated for her.

Kano's scenario didn't feel as powerful as Misuzu's to me (I managed to worm my way through with the Chinese script). Of course,

gur unccl raqvat naq Lhxvgb tvivat hc ba uvf qernz "gb svaq gur jvatrq bar"
-ROT 13, for people who haven't played through.

just didn't feel like a satisfactory conclusion to me. Ah well, was expecting some tragic-climax-end thing. :P

Originally Posted by Tabi

Okay, maybe it's a bit of a moot point to bring up, since a lot of people's opinions are that the girls of Air, Kanon, etc seem much too pure and innocent for such things to happen, it spoils their view of them, etc... and admittedly even I was a little "O_o" at the prospect of Misuzu having H scenes when I began, since she's established as being so childlike, and everything... but... I don't know, I don't know if there's any way to word how it felt without sounding like a "My entire life is the computer and I fall in love with computer-generated graphics" sort of thing (XD;;), but... while okay it may be kinda weird to have these girls in H scenes, destroys the pure image of them in our minds and stuff... surely the point of the games (or one of them anyway) is to build up a kind of mental relationship with these girls, to get to know them and feel for them (and damn if I wasn't feeling for Misuzu by that point)... surely the H scenes are there as like... the deepening of the 'relationship' (as it is), kinda of... dammit, I can't explain it. Maybe somebody else knows what I mean, how I mean it?

From what I've been hearing, most people preferred the game WITHOUT the H-scenes so its nothing new. Then again, thats why the All-Ages version was made. Anyone know's if the Seen.txt for that one's interchangable with the 18+ version? I seem to be able to run things fine, but I've got a feeling the game would crash where the H-scenes are 'supposed' to be......

Originally Posted by Tabi

I can't really speak as far as for Air, but... I guess one thing that does sort of creep me about the H scenes in Kanon is just their expressions during it... the girls always look so scared and unsure, and okay, it's their first time, they're not gonna be all "C'MERE YUUICHI/YUKITO *HORN*", but... happy fun bodily unity thing going on, smile a bit?

*tries to analyse this*
I'm guessing that Japanese (and maybe the world's perverts :D) like their girls shy and afraid. Maybe it reinforces the image of their purity......

...... and they take pride in the EXACT amount of purity they despoil. Don't ask......

And......um....... happy, fun, body unity thing? RIGHT..............

Originally Posted by Tabi

Still, I felt more for Misuzu than I did for Kano despite seeing Kano's scenes first... I suppose it's because I understood a lot more of what was going on with Misuzu, really. With Kano it was more "She's happy! She's sad. She's blushing! She's happy. She's still happy! She's sad."... aaa, western culture needs to embrace these games, they rock, dammit.

Thats the unfortunate thing about not understanding the language. Maybe I'll pick up formal Japanese lessons after Cambridge releases its hold on my life so I can do a better job with the Chinese translation, and provide you guys with something to fiddle around with till zalas AstCd2 gets cracking.

Originally Posted by Tabi

Couldn't help but notice though, in the music room... not all the songs from the CD are there? The one I noticed most not being there was that vocal that isn't the OP song or the ED song... I've listened to the music a lot these past few days XD almost considered taking the disk to school with me to listen on the way there and back, but... aa, it's a bit precious for that. Still, I figured that other song would be an insert song at some point (was sort of expecting it at some point to the end of Misuzu's scenario)... when does it come up? If it's a spoiler then it's okay, but some idea of what scenario it pops up in would be nice ^^. Such a pretty song. Hell, they're -all- pretty songs... I can't get sick of Misuzu's theme, especially. Minagi's theme suprised me though, from her appearence I thought her theme tune would be a little less... sparkly, I suppose (ahaha, and just as I start typing about Minagi, her music comes up on my CD player. Mina~gii~).

On the topic of music, why don't you make another copy of AIR to lug around? It IS legal for you to make backups of these things if you're the owner of an original copy.
夏影 was the one that hooked me into AIR, though 鳥の詩 was a far superior song. Guess I just like fluid songs, repetitive or not :P
Anyway, grab the Piano collections of Air/Kanon ("Refeel"). Thats one's heckuva CD, though alittle on the expensive side for just 10 songs (2000 yen) ^^;

Originally Posted by Tabi

It was hard to get Misuzu's scenario, and even now I don't know if there are things I did wrong and if there are other endings for her (I only got like... five or six of her entire CG collection, though I have a good proportion of Kano's gallery filled)... and I have no idea how I'd go about getting Minagi's scenario XD;;;

Kano and Minagi's scenarios end in Dream. They don't play any significant parts in Summer or AIR. Hence, you'll get all the CGs from playing through Dream alone.

Originally Posted by Tabi

Haruko rocks. I'd rather have Akiko as a mother, but... Haruko rocks.

Seconded

Originally Posted by Tabi

Anyone know if there are any Air artbooks or anything out there? JPQueen has a bunch of Kanon manga and stuff up (which I plan to nab when I'm next ordering stuff for christmas), but... when I did a search for Air it came up with a whole bunch of unrelated things, I suppose because it's such a common word ^^;. Of course, there might not be anything out there to search for. Anyone got any info on things like that? I'd quite like some Air things to look at while I sit happily in bed~ (plus I'm on more of an Air kick at the moment than I am Kanon XD)

From what I've been hearing, there IS an AIR artbook on sale. Not too sure who the publisher was though.......

Originally Posted by Anonymous

From what I've been hearing, there IS an AIR artbook on sale. Not too sure who the publisher was though.......

You are right Enter Brain did release AIR artbook. It's really hard to find though.

I really don't know if AIR's H-scene was funny, but I did laugh at Kanon H-scene scripts. You have to admit... The way Yuuich describes it is funny.

Originally Posted by Haeleth

Lame. Key's writing is normally pretty good for games, but their H scenes are awful. I won't go into details in case there are kids reading this (although with a subject like this they jolly well shouldn't be), but basically they go to extraordinary lengths to avoid actually referring to anything directly. It's all "my thing" and "those two swellings on her chest". Really.

Holy crap. Are you going to be "fixing" that for the translation, or is it going to be translated in all its goofiness?

[Haeleth]

Originally Posted by Guest

Anyone know's if the Seen.txt for that one's interchangable with the 18+ version? I seem to be able to run things fine, but I've got a feeling the game would crash where the H-scenes are 'supposed' to be...

Nope - it'll crash when it comes across one of the new CGs they put in for the all-age version.

Just hold down <ctrl> when the screen gets too pink, you'll be fine. :p

Originally Posted by Guest

Maybe I'll pick up formal Japanese lessons after Cambridge releases its hold on my life...

Dear me... you must have done something really awful in your previous life.</dark blue>

Assuming you mean Cambridge, Darkest East Anglia, not Cambridge, Mass., that is.

Originally Posted by K

Holy crap. Are you going to be "fixing" that for the translation, or is it going to be translated in all its goofiness?

I've toned it down (up?) a little, but most of the original awfulness is still there. It's the translator's job to preserve the authentic experience! :p

[AstCd2]

Gah, I got to this thread late. Seeing how everyone's already given you the answers, all I can offer you are my opinions ^^;;.

Originally Posted by Tabi

Admittedly I first got Kano's scenario and the translation ran out pretty quickly for that, and with her I couldn't get an ending anyway (I musta sat there for an hour or so replaying through my most recent save back then to do something, -anything- to change whatever I'd done wrong ^,^. Fail.)... I was like, okay, so the second time through I decided to be as determined as possible to go for Misuzu, since I knew that most was translated for her.

Like all the Key games, I think the main heroine's scenario works best when you play it last. Of course, I don't suppose there's much of a choice at this point. As for not getting the bad endings, you'll find (in the *cough* eventual English patch) that it's generally pretty easy to stay alive if you show an intention to stay in town and with the girl in your storyline. Surprisingly enough, you can be pretty mean to Misuzu without any consequence, especially earlier on in the game.

Originally Posted by Tabi

surely the H scenes are there as like... the deepening of the 'relationship' (as it is), kinda of... dammit, I can't explain it. Maybe somebody else knows what I mean, how I mean it?

I have the feeling that the Hscenes were left in as a renai gaming formality purely to meet the conventions of the genre, given the obvious lack of effort in the writing.

Originally Posted by Tabi

But... happy fun bodily unity thing going on, smile a bit?

As a general rule of thumb amongst H-games, no one ever seems to look like they're having fun during sex. Pots of virtual ink have been spilled over the topic of sexuality in Japanese culture, but it suffices to say that it's probably intentional.

Originally Posted by Tabi

Still, I felt more for Misuzu than I did for Kano despite seeing Kano's scenes first... I suppose it's because I understood a lot more of what was going on with Misuzu, really. With Kano it was more "She's happy! She's sad. She's blushing! She's happy. She's still happy! She's sad."... aaa, western culture needs to embrace these games, they rock, dammit.

I've always felt Kano's story was a little thin on the ground. On the plus side, though, it features the inimitable Dr. K, and it's worth playing through her story just to see her pick on Yukito.

Originally Posted by Tabi

and I have no idea how I'd go about getting Minagi's scenario XD;;;

You can get to Minagi's scenario by moving out of Misuzu's house, though you do have to make sure Yukito moves to the station rather than leave town. Needless to say, you have to run into Minagi a lot.

At the risk of incurring Haeleth's wrath, I have to say I didn't really think much of her scenario. There are a lot of days near the end where next to nothing is established, making for a rather drawn-out story.

Originally Posted by Tabi

Oh yeah. Anyone know who'll be up for the voices in the upcoming Air anime/film/etc?

To cut a long story short, they're the same ones who voiced the console versions of the game. It's a pretty high quality cast as seiyuu go.

[zalas]

Yeah, all the older counterparts (Kano's older sister Hijiri, Kanna's more experienced servant Uraha and Misuzu's mom Haruko) are played by the three goddesses ~_~;

Originally Posted by AstCd2

You can get to Minagi's scenario by moving out of Misuzu's house, though you do have to make sure Yukito moves to the station rather than leave town. Needless to say, you have to run into Minagi a lot.

Asuto chin has explained very well here.
However, there's one more thing you have to be extra careful though. You have to be nice to Kano as well during the progress. If you don't, game just finishes off with bad ending even if you were being a good guy to Minagi.

Key was being a little 'evil' on this selecting Minagi and Kano scenario in AIR IMO. As you progress the story, you will reach the point where you have to 'dump' one of the girl (for example, by breaking the lunch promise....). If you dump Kano, then the story flows to the Minagi's story. On the other hand, if you dump Minagi (Which was very painful for me to do back then ^^;;), you get to see the Kano's story.

I like Minagi's scenario best in the game AIR. The reason why I like so much about it is becasue it is the most completed single story beside the Summer scenario. Kano's scenario is definitly the weakest. Misuzu's Dream scenario gives a empty feeling because it technically is not a complete story without AIR and Summer scenario.
It is also unique that Minagi's scenario has a two different ending; 'dark' ending and true ending. I personally liked dark ending more for its shocking plot twist(NO. IT'S NOT BECAUSE OF THE H-SCENE XP), but Minagi and Michiru's farewell scene in the true ending was definitly great too.

[Weave]

Originally Posted by Keisuke

You are right Enter Brain did release AIR artbook. It's really hard to find though.

I own it. It's very good. I have the paradigm artbook, but I won't open it till I've finished the game completely as to not ruin it. The anime and movie will probably do that though.

[Haeleth]

Originally Posted by AstCd2

I've always felt Kano's story was a little thin on the ground. On the plus side, though, it features the inimitable Dr. K, and it's worth playing through her story just to see her pick on Yukito.

And Potato! Don't forget Potato!

Kano's story had potential, but it does drag a bit, and the resolution wasn't nearly as interesting as some of the theories I'd come up with as I played. The Shiraho bit was interesting, though.

Originally Posted by AstCd2

At the risk of incurring Haeleth's wrath, I have to say I didn't really think much of her scenario. There are a lot of days near the end where next to nothing is established, making for a rather drawn-out story.

*bans AstCd2*
...just kidding.

It's no secret she's my favourite AIR girl, but I'll readily concede that the pacing gets a bit off in her story too. It's a bit of a problem in all AIR's scenarios, actually, they all peak too soon and then drag for a while before things get interesting again.

But I'll forgive her anything for "ohakonbanchi-wa". And Michiru, of course...

みちる 「テゴメにされちゃう！」
実凪 「･･･されちゃいますか」
往人 「するか！」

クラシック。

*pops AIR back in drive and stops work for a week*

Originally Posted by Haeleth

And Potato! Don't forget Potato!

Potato wasn't kicked enough. I wonder how they'd anime-erise it. Should be some sight ^^;

Originally Posted by Haeleth

Kano's story had potential, but it does drag a bit, and the resolution wasn't nearly as interesting as some of the theories I'd come up with as I played. The Shiraho bit was interesting, though.

But wouldn't make too much sense till you reach Summer......
You're right, zalas (or was it Asuto-chin?)..... Summer's REALLY painful if you have to dig out information on the terminology. Nevertheless, I shall press on! ^^
By the way, whats a 翼人？ Im guessing its some religous position.

*Copies from unedited script*

Ryuuya: "Karatenjiku" are called “Hoyoku”, sometimes called “Fuuji” and “Kumari” a long time ago.

Need help on these terms, if you guys don't mind ^^. I'm guessing their some kind of honorifics from the Kanji, but I'd rather be certain

Originally Posted by Haeleth

みちる 「テゴメにされちゃう！」
実凪 「･･･されちゃいますか」
<span title="Yukito: 'What do you take me for?!'">往人 「するか！」

Well....... its this seemingly "air-headed" (for lack of a better term) attitude that makes her likeable :P I'll have to side with you on this one: Minagi's GENUINELY likeable.

[Treewaller]

I may be a bit naive here, but this is how I like to believe Key's product line came to be:

1) Key made Kanon (100% H-scene free)
2) Visual Arts said "HEY! We're not releasing a game without H-scenes!!"
3) Key slapped together some H-scenes, obviously not putting as much effort into it as the rest of the game
4) Kanon became popular and a TV show was approved
5) The TV show presented the story H-scene free, as it was meant to be
6) After the success of the show, VA let Key release an H-scene free "director's cut" of the game
7) The all-age version became uber popular and was ported to game consoles
8) When their next game (Air) was finished, VA said "You can release your all-age version, but you've gotta release an adult version too!!"
9) The all-age version proved to be more popular again, as well as getting ported to consoles
10) Finally, with the release of their 3rd game (Clannad), VA said "Okay, you win, we won't force any more crappy H-scenes into your games"

Any chance I'm right? Cause the idea that Key didn't want H-scenes in their games is the only thing that's making'em a respectable company in my mind...

[AstCd2]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Potato wasn't kicked enough. I wonder how they'd anime-erise it. Should be some sight ^^;

Poor thing. Key's mascot animals always seem to receive some rough treatment.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

By the way, whats a 翼人？ Im guessing its some religous position.

The 翼人 are the people with wings, like Kanna and that certain other mildly-spoilerish character in Summer.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

*Copies from unedited script*

Ryuuya: "Karatenjiku" are called “Hoyoku”, sometimes called “Fuuji” and “Kumari” a long time ago.

Need help on these terms, if you guys don't mind ^^. I'm guessing their some kind of honorifics from the Kanji, but I'd rather be certain

Unfortunately, we haven't begun working on Summer yet, so a comprehensive list of terms hasn't been compiled. I honestly have no idea what those words mean just by looking at the roomaji, but I'm pretty sure most of them can be found with a bit of googling, though. Zalas's site might also be helpful.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Well....... its this seemingly "air-headed" (for lack of a better term) attitude that makes her likeable :P I'll have to side with you on this one: Minagi's GENUINELY likeable.

Oh, I like Minagi well enough (I like all of the Key characters, more or less: that's one reason their games are so great =P), it's just her story that kind of grinds on me.

[zalas]

http://www.cjas.org/~zalas/AIR/moin.cgi/SummerHeian

Have fun!

(if anyone has suggestions, feel free to add in stuff, it's a wiki)