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General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

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  #31  
Old 2008-04-23, 19:08
KawatoriShinji KawatoriShinji is offline
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You were given plenty of links and suggestions as to where you could start reading, yet you kept asking questions, making it seem that you did not bother to read the links. To note the first reply in here, Asceai pointed you to http://www.guidetojapanese.org/, which as far as I can see answers your recent questions about the writing system. See: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/writingsys.html

And, Asceai, you linked to it, so why don't you read it. Where did you pull "Essentially, it's a similar purpose to having capital and lowercase letters in the Latin alphabet." from? We don't use alternative case to write foreign words here, or at least nowhere that I've seen.
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  #32  
Old 2008-04-23, 19:20
redoshi redoshi is offline
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I did read all the links that were posted here I even went to the other topic someone referred and i went to all the links there. As a matter of fact I think I have them all bookmarked the reason I kept asking questions is because I am a slow learner and i need a more simple explanation. I was never a fast learner so I just wanted someone to simplify it. I've note only went to those link I have also been reading books. I have seen the answer to my question but it was to hard to understand and I didnt get it. For example in none of those links or those books did it tell the differences between Hira, Kata or Kanji. It just started instantly telling you how to say My car is red in Japanese lol No need to start anything here. My questions have been answered and this topic can be closed now. I just wanted to hear the opinions of people who have more expertise in this situation. I have no one who knows anything about Japanese and all the websites you can't ask questions. It just gives you answers to SOME questions not all.
  #33  
Old 2008-04-23, 19:22
nachtrabe nachtrabe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redoshi View Post
Ohh I know I have to do it i was just asking simple questions. Which is exactly what the internet was made for. I doubt I need my hand held but if asking some questions is wrong to do on internet forums by all means I won't do it no more. I am almost positive this is the general forums where you can talk about anything. I think the people who helped me with the links they provided and the questions they have answered but i think it was plain rude for you to say that. I have been asking kindly and people have been responding kindly. I won't ask no more questions here because you seem to think it is wrong, but next time someone just asks a few question's in the forum's please try to restrain yourself from having an outburst. You can also ask about any single person who has self-studied and 7 out of 10 of them has asked someone who has more information on the subject for help. I bet you have too. This is all directed to Agilis and not to the people who have helped me.
oh for the love of...

I ask Agilis questions all of the time, he has been a tremendously valuable resource, though I try not to bother him too much. The problem isn't with asking questions, its the kind of questions you ask.

Let's look, shall we?

Quote:
Ok can I get a little help from someone? I have 2 books from the library. One of which talks about Hiragana and Katakana it has about 80 different characters or letters. Such as shu, sha and sho for Hiragana and the same for Katakana. While the other book talks about Kanji and it says its a guide to learn japanese but all it does it show 1019 or some kanji words used in elementary school grade 1-6 and then 900 and some after that. It has me confused as to which I need to read.
This is the kind of question that can be answered trivially with Wikipedia or a quick google search. See, for example, Jouyou kanji and voila, you have your answer. You get that answer by reading the wikipedia page or by using google to ask how many kanji you should learn.

Let's look at your next questions:

Quote:
I have a chart that tells you all the Hira and Kata letters but when i put them into japanese words it ends up like arigota and such. How am i suppose to know what Hira and Kata means in english so i can say it in Japanese? I don't Think my books have every word in hiragana or katana. Cause I know if i put the two Japanese Symbols that are Ki and Te it will spell Kite but if a Japanese person read that he wouldnt see K.I.T.E as the word Kite would he just think it was like a made up word or does it mean the same thing?
This is basic (assuming I am parsing it correctly in English) and can be answered with a quick google search (or, heck, just trying to read any page of japanese text). Every Japanese introductory book I have seen that covers the written language--from Reading Japanese to Japanese in Mangaland covers it.

Its like if someone were to ask about mathematics:

"What is the answer to this edge case of the Cauchy Integral Formula (CIF)" or "can someone give me a practical example of the CIF" or "The proof of the CIF says this, but I can't figure out that step" or even "this is a problem that uses the CIF that I don't get" is a different kettle of fish from "I don't know the CIF, can someone define it for me?"
  #34  
Old 2008-04-23, 19:27
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There's something called whitespace; use it. There's something called a brain; use it.
  #35  
Old 2008-04-23, 19:32
nachtrabe nachtrabe is offline
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Quote:
For example in none of those links or those books did it tell the differences between Hira, Kata or Kanji.
JFGI.
  #36  
Old 2008-04-23, 19:34
redoshi redoshi is offline
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Forgive for not knowing how to do a serch for that type of stuff I'm fairly new to using a computer. All I ever have done on a computer is Gaming or Watching Anime which I had on discs so I never really browsed the internet that much. All i said to Agilis is he shouldn't be so rude to a person asking questions there are so many different reasons for a person to ask a question why get so upset when someone asks one? He didnt really even need to post here in the first place I thank him for showing me stuff that was already obvious but there was no need to be rude. Also you said it was the kind of question i asked.... That seems really funny since any question will still be a question some harder some easier but no matter what answering a question will get the same result everytime. You'll get thanked. You might mean that those were weird questions when the answer was obvious but I said before it wasnt obvious to me. Anyways I'm 15 please do excuse me for not knowing about all this stuff and needing to ask questions when I can't seem to get what I'm doing right.
  #37  
Old 2008-04-23, 19:36
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Look, the bottom line is Japanese is a difficult language to learn. That goes without saying I am sure. I understand that as a complete beginner, you have questions in regards to how the language is structured. However, I don't think that this forum is the avenue in which you should pursue understanding of Japanese. Yes the gemot is filled with enthusiasts who probably all share some sort of collective interest in the Japanese language. And do keep in mind that these kind of questions are probably asked ALL the time on here. So do not take comments on here to be purely for the sake of being offensive.

I would suggest that you pursue your path towards understanding Japanese language elsewhere. As many people have already noted, there are many resources on the web that will help you achieve better understanding of the language and its intricacies. Remember, learning something as complex as Japanese cannot be achieved over night. Consider courses or private lessons to get to your goals. Without dedication, I'm afraid this is truly a daunting task.
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Last edited by Shinikenshi; 2008-04-23 at 19:44. Reason: My grammar sucks.
  #38  
Old 2008-04-23, 19:40
nachtrabe nachtrabe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinikenshi View Post
Look, the bottom line is it is very difficult to learn a foreign language.
Clarified that for you.
  #39  
Old 2008-04-23, 19:43
redoshi redoshi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinikenshi View Post
Look, the bottom line is Japanese is a difficult language to learn. That goes without saying I am sure. I understand that as complete beginner, you have questions in regards to how the language is structured but I don't think that this forum is the avenue in which you should pursue understanding of Japanese. Yes the Gemot is filled with enthusiasts who probably all share some sort of collective interest in the Japanese language. And do keep in mind that these kind of questions are probably asked ALL the time on here. So do not take comments on here to be purely for the sake of being offensive.

I would suggest that you pursue your path towards understanding Japanese language elsewhere. As many people have already noted, there are many resources on the web that will help you achieve better understanding of the language and its intricacies. Remember, learning something as complex as Japanese cannot be achieved over night. Consider courses or private lessons to get to your goals. Without dedication, I'm afraid this is truly a daunting task.
Yea I accutly have been saving up money for Japanese class's. I have been studying almost non-stop for 3 days and i understand greatly that it cannot be learned in a few days. I understand that if i had someone who can speak fluent japanese it would be easier but there is no one around like that. I know know that most my questions can be found by searching with google. I did not know that before so now it will most likely be easier to learn it. Also I know no one here can actually teach me Japanese I was just asking here cause out of all the places I was looking this site had the most people who speak english and tryed to learn Japanese. I'm going to continue to learn Japanese wither it takes a few months or a few years. I have more than enough time.
  #40  
Old 2008-04-23, 19:45
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Redoshi:

Not knowing how to use the internet is no excuse for your actions. You have full access to the computer and the Internet; you're using it right now.

Secondly, Agilis is not upset at you because you asked a question. Like Nacht says, he asks Agi questions all the time. He's upset at you because you asked a question that you could have very well figured out with the resources you posess at your fingertips. Resources such as the Internet.

I don't buy your argument that a question is a question. Some questions are just better than others. The questions you need to ask people are more detailed questions about certain nuances that a textbook couldn't tell you. For the most menial and basic questions, really, just go google it. If you had any sort of intellectual curiosity whatsoever, you would have endeavored to slake your thirst for knowledge by first consulting the websites that we have given you instead of asking us again. Literally, there's six guys spoon-feeding you right now...

And don't bring age into this, please.
  #41  
Old 2008-04-23, 19:45
KawatoriShinji KawatoriShinji is offline
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You learned how to use forums before you learned how to search for things. Right.
Regarding the kinds of questions you have been asking, in an earlier post, you said, "i was just asking simple questions. Which is exactly what the internet was made for." However, the answers to the questions you asked are a simple search away. In this very thread, you were even provided with links to resources. I don't see how you can be able to use this forum, or even find it, without being able to follow and read some links.
With what you know how to do, age is not an excuse.
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  #42  
Old 2008-04-23, 20:03
redoshi redoshi is offline
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You did read all of the posts right? I have stated i have been to all of those links i was looking for a simplfied answer. I was not bringing my age into this. If you noticed i said i have plenty of time i might it in a way that i was 15 and i didnt have any real priority's yet and i could have enough time to study without being distracted. Now that i look at that post it does look like i was blaming my age but tht is not what i was trying to do. How is not knowing how to use the internet not an excuse? I've already said i was a slow learner and i used this for stuff that required no internet connection. I get most of the stuff i do on the computer from my friend he burns it and gives it to me on a disc. I have asked him to teach me to use a computer but he said it was to complicated to show someone that they had to learn how to use it on their and thats what i have been doing. If i have known that if i typed it into google i would not have post here in the first place. I admit if i spent more time messing with the internet then I did trying to learn japanese i might have known that. Also i found this forum when i searched How to learn japanese in msn. This thread has helped me not only in japanese but in computers as well i thank you guys but is there anything else you would like to point out? I mean really you guys just keep saying the same thing over and over i get it that these links help I have been there and read them. So thanks for the help I don't think i need anymore help now.
  #43  
Old 2008-04-23, 20:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KawatoriShinji View Post
And, Asceai, you linked to it, so why don't you read it. Where did you pull "Essentially, it's a similar purpose to having capital and lowercase letters in the Latin alphabet." from? We don't use alternative case to write foreign words here, or at least nowhere that I've seen.
It was an extremely simple example. I did, in fact, say that katakana was used to write loanwords in that exact post.

Quote:
Katakana is used for a few things.. sometimes for foreign words (in which the katakana is written to have approximately the same 'sound' as the foreign word),
I'm fine if you think it was a bad example. It probably was. I simply wanted to show an example of using an alternative alphabet, and I couldn't think of anything else! After all, you've got 26 different letters and two ways of writing them, and some meaning can be inferred from which case is used in which situation, even though they are pronounced the same way, and if a word was written in either case, the pronunciation would not change. After all, it's not like foreign words is the only usage of katakana, and because the languages are so different, it would be somewhat ridiculous to try and find an exact equivalent.

And finally, I had no intention of going and reading through guidetojapanese.org, but since you brought it up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidetoJapanese.org
As mentioned before, katakana is mainly used for words imported from foreign languages. It can also be used to emphasize certain words similar to the function of italics.
Funnily enough, those two usages of katakana are the exact two I mentioned in that post. Therefore, unless I made it up, or happened to use a different source, it would in fact appear that I did read guidetojapanese.org =p
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Last edited by Asceai; 2008-04-23 at 21:02.
  #44  
Old 2008-04-23, 21:04
nachtrabe nachtrabe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redoshi View Post
You did read all of the posts right?
You don't give us the courtesy of reading the links we provide, why should we return the favor?

Quote:
I have stated i have been to all of those links i was looking for a simplfied answer.
Translation: You want someone to do the legwork for you.

I am generally happy to help people. I tend to be more forgiving than Agilis. I am also not tolerant of people who aren't willing to do the legwork on their own.

If I were to ask what is the difference between the three writing systems, I would accept a wikipedia link as my answer. I do not need something "simpler," though I might ask for clarification on a specific point that I have trouble with. Don't expect people to dumb it down for you--if you can't overcome this basic hurdle with Japanese, don't expect to be able to overcome the much more significant ones later.

If it seems a challenge to tell Hiragana from Kanji, just wait until you encounter a phrase such as "boku wa unagi da" and trying to distinguish between ordering in a restaurant and being an eel.

Quote:
How is not knowing how to use the internet not an excuse?
Simply? Because its bad form to ask a professor in HS Physics what the value of g (9.8 m/s) is because you can find the answer in the back of your textbook. That's with someone who is being paid to teach you and humor your questions.

No one online is. Welcome to reality.

You have a tremendous wealth of knowledge at your fingertips. Learn to use it. When I started using the internet, Google didn't even exist and it was still considered bad form to ask questions you could trivially find the answer to.

If, after reading the explanations, you still don't understand, ask specific questions based on what you have read.

Quote:
I've already said i was a slow learner and i used this for stuff that required no internet connection. I get most of the stuff i do on the computer from my friend he burns it and gives it to me on a disc. I have asked him to teach me to use a computer but he said it was to complicated to show someone that they had to learn how to use it on their and thats what i have been doing.
Most of us are self-taught with computers. There's no reason you can't teach yourself. Effort matters more than instructors and it matters more than talent.

Heck, I taught myself to program, use the internet (as the multi hundred dollar phone bill I ran up one month indicates), and a long list of other things. I don't say this to brag, but to illustrate: in the long run, you are beholden to yourself more than anyone else to actually accomplish anything with your life.

Quote:
So thanks for the help I don't think i need anymore help now.
If you think you need no more help, then you truly are a fool :p

I certainly still need a lot of help.
  #45  
Old 2008-04-23, 21:08
KawatoriShinji KawatoriShinji is offline
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>Asceai

You said 'essentially', when the primary usage is loan words. It seemed that you were stating that the upper/lower case similarity is primary, but their usages are quite different most of the time.
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Last edited by KawatoriShinji; 2008-04-23 at 21:10.
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