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General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

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  #31  
Old 2008-07-25, 11:34
Leo_Otaku Leo_Otaku is offline
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I believe it is the of the story telling, art, character design and of course music. I could really not care so much for type-moon or any others really. I mean they haven't done anything too exceptional or new. I know type-moon just started working on new titles about time. Milking their fate/stay night franchise for all it is worth....
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  #32  
Old 2008-07-25, 12:26
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Another factor in the US is the release of really pretty anime, which is actually accessible to non japanese speakers. When you have high profile anime like Air and Clannad, you get a lot of fans that haven't even read the visual novels.
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  #33  
Old 2008-07-26, 05:18
Nanatuha Nanatuha is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol View Post
However, it's more objective than fanboys ramblings, and can be checked.
Isn't the figures including the direct sales by KEY, and it can't be confirmed how many was, can it? I thought the direct sales number was likely quite a few then. Of course I don't have the determinate information to it though. :P

If you want something objective, I could say the three companies at least once had lure not especially appearing by the sales figure, by the fact that no other companies except them have had a individual code in Comike ever. However it's also just one aspect of popurality, not determinative at all.
http://www.comiket.co.jp/info-c/C75/C75genre.html
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  #34  
Old 2008-07-29, 04:41
Nanatuha Nanatuha is offline
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... Necromancy?

Well, one last time. I came across a interesting theory today.
It's not why it's popular, but why an Eroge related form is unpopular.

It's quite long text for me. There would be engrishes here and there, but go easy on me please. >_>

Quote:
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Lobotomy/20080509/p1

Why eroge discussion has been declined:


Past Otaku hobbies needed huge premise knowledge. If younger generation wanted to discuss something, it's difficult for them to compete with veterans, or compete with their accumulated knowledge.

While wanting to know about something you like is quite natural feeling whether as an Otaku or as not an Otaku, when you thought you found something new, they would deny it and spitefully say there already has been similar thing for a long time. (But I wonder if responses like this inevitably would be end up to call Greek mythology?)

It's not because they were clearheaded. Nor they've studied hard. Just because they lived long, and much experienced than youngers.

But, from nowhere, one day an genre emerged in the Otaku world which unknown to the older generation.

That was Eroge. Here Eroge I mention is not including primitive MS-DOS era type, but the Visualnovel style that started by "Shizuku".

While the system was an imitation of Soundnovel of SNES and also the scenario was obviously clear to being influenced by a existent book, but still, I think bring it into the adult media was novel idea. Then thanks to the aid of "Kizuato", "ToHeart", a large amount of similar games was produced. Then Eroge discussion scene was born.

Eroge was suitable for discussion due to its story-centered nature. And as you can specially see in the Key's game, which represents Visualnovel, many of them adopted a style that leaves interpretations for reader. Even just talking your affinity for your favorite characters could admitted as a respectable impression. So eroge discussion flourished.

I have a printed review titled "The critical point of bishoujo game" here, written by Eroge elites of at that time. In this review referred materials for reviews are almost only Eroge.

It means people were qualified enough for an Eroge discussion if he was just playing Eroge at that time. Eroge of this period was not far advanced, and because the amount was absolutely less than Manga or Anime, it was not too difficult to talk inclusive summarization.

But pride goes before destruction and an haughty spirit before a fall. People have left from Eroge discussion gradually.

Why? Simple. Because the number of archives of Eroge have been piled up and swelled as well as Manga and Anime as years.

Even if CLANNAD interested someone new who watched anime adaptation, and he start playing, the moment when he say an comment a veteran Eroge player attacks him demonstrating "Then, have you played ONE.?". Inevitably newcomer decreased. Eroge discussion has been declined.
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  #35  
Old 2008-07-29, 12:30
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If someone gets discouraged simply because they aren't watching everything/playing everything other people have, then they shouldn't even be calling this stuff a hobby in the first place. You do stuff because it's fun/you're interested in it. If someone recommends me an eroge/anime/manga/whatever, if I have time or if I'm remotely interested I'll give it a look. Otherwise, it doesn't really bother me if I'm missing out on a few things.

There's way too much stuff in general to explore in one lifetime. We're always picking and choosing our spots. I don't see how someone can get intimidated by that.
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  #36  
Old 2008-07-29, 22:36
Chronoscout Chronoscout is offline
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Hmmm why is key more popular...it's not one thing... it's everything imo

they have better music, better art, better writing and they aren't afraid to use moe.

alot of other companies create VNs just as sex games with little thought to story or atmosphere.

i laugh at some of the lesser VNs i've played when i see crapy or poorly done CGs... i mean most VN only has 5 CGs tops per character most of the time (not including the 3 oe 4 variants of the important scenes)

Key takes the time to do them right imo... and i still listen to tori no uta (the theme song from air)

however i'm not sure they can hold top spot much longer. the other companies have seen what works now and they have been closing they gap.

I think if Navel used better music it could beat Key
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  #37  
Old 2008-07-30, 01:17
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Asceai Asceai is offline
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Navel sucks nowadays. They could write a good nakige to save their lives. The days of Two One and Cherry Petals are sadly gone (yeah, I know the rerelease of the latter is coming out, but STILL). I've totally lost faith in them.

Quote:
i laugh at some of the lesser VNs i've played when i see crapy or poorly done CGs... i mean most VN only has 5 CGs tops per character most of the time (not including the 3 oe 4 variants of the important scenes)
Actually, I consider Key to be a company that needs to use a lot more CGs than they currently do! Every Key game I've played, there's been numerous moments when something awesome/epic has happened, and I think 'Gee, it'd be nice if there was a CG of this.' Even Clannad, known for being extremely long, only has about 175 CG, compared to other games of similar length like Haruka ni Aogi with over a thousand. And I'm not just talking titles that have an unusual number of CG (like the ef games, with tens of thousands of them).. I'm talking your average visual novel. I think most of Key's titles could, in general, do with about three times as much CG as they currently do.

Either way, I consider the actual company to be a relatively transient thing. AKABEi SOFT2 holds the top spot in my eye, but realistically it'll probably just go to whoever Looseboy decides to work for =P Ultimately, visual novels are the creation of the scenario writer that writes them, and everything else (the art, the music, the voice acting etc.) is just polish. Very nice polish, but polish nonetheless.
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Last edited by Asceai; 2008-07-30 at 01:24.
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  #38  
Old 2008-07-30, 02:49
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Quote:
Actually, I consider Key to be a company that needs to use a lot more CGs than they currently do! Every Key game I've played, there's been numerous moments when something awesome/epic has happened, and I think 'Gee, it'd be nice if there was a CG of this.' Even Clannad, known for being extremely long, only has about 175 CG, compared to other games of similar length like Haruka ni Aogi with over a thousand. And I'm not just talking titles that have an unusual number of CG (like the ef games, with tens of thousands of them).. I'm talking your average visual novel. I think most of Key's titles could, in general, do with about three times as much CG as they currently do.
It might be more accurate to compare the number of base CGs a game has to get a better idea of the amount of art is has, as variations of a CG are (most of the time) a lot quicker to produce. Clannad Full Voice has 68, which is still way too few, especially since it took a few years to make. Little Busters - EX is much better in that respect, having 143, but then again it is an updated version of the original. I don't own Haruka ni Aogi or the ef games, but it would be interesting to know how many base CGs they have.
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  #39  
Old 2008-07-30, 03:00
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I know that variations are a lot quicker to create, but they really do add variety, and they certainly take time to create. It's not fair to discount them entirely (in fact, I'd be a lot happier if Key used more variations).

I'll go do a count of ef -a fairy tale of the two-, just using base images. Be back in a while =P

There: ef -a fairy tale of the two- contains a total of 1181 _base_ CG. But it's unfair to compare that to anything--most eroges of that size wouldn't have a tenth of the amount of CG. There's a ridiculous number of variations too.

On the other hand, Haruka ni Aogi has a far more subdued 83 or so base CG, but like I said, you can't discount the variations; some CG have more than twenty variations. In addition, Haruka ni Aogi has a huge number of paper dolls (sprites, tachi-e, whatever you call them) and uses them very, very well. Not as well as Katakoi no Tsuki or Magic A Ride, but still far more interesting than Clannad or LB!EX
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Last edited by Asceai; 2008-07-30 at 03:08.
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  #40  
Old 2008-07-30, 04:57
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Asceai: Thanks for the numbers. Yep, I agree with what you - the art, particularly the CGs are for me the weakest part of Key's work. I guess there's the possibility that Key's artists are just slower than others in the business.

On topic - I guess while Key might not necessarily be the best at any given area, they haven't released a dud or even an average game yet. The same can't be said of too many other companies. It's certainly not the only reason for their popularity, but having the same consistently good core team working on each game really helps with their reputation. Although, I wouldn't say Key titles are more popular than those of the other big eroge companies.
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