Bad news for all of us

[EusthEnoptEron]

Originally Posted by pbsaffran

That's a very long and very disturbing thread, right there. How come nanashi-san seems to be doing the conversation alone ? None of the other participants are helping any bit, as well.
That's a lot of crazy talk for one single thread, too. Are they trying to set some sort of record ?

Nanashi = 名無し ~= Anonymous
I have no idea why in Rômaji, though.

Interesting on the page is the japanese version of minori's text. So much easier to read.

[NTX]

Everyone blames the other party and no one moves a finger to do anything about it. Simply put, we're doomed.

I know 99% of you probably hate Sankaku, but an anti-censorship, pro-eroge, loli, artistic freedom, etc campaign has started there, and I'm spreading the word. We desperately need anyone with some kind of -- even if minimal -- proficiency of Japanese. Could any of you take some minutes of your spare time to read this?

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/forums/topic.php?id=1184

おã*がいします.

[NTX]

I'm wondering if fighting against the loli ban is a lost cause. There've already been a number of convictions of people possessing loli material, and taking it on right now along with the feminist group's silly belief that games with rape lead to real rape is like starting a war on 2 different fronts.

[jyuichi]

Originally Posted by NTX

I'm wondering if fighting against the loli ban is a lost cause. There've already been a number of convictions of people possessing loli material, and taking it on right now along with the feminist group's silly belief that games with rape lead to real rape is like starting a war on 2 different fronts.

We gotta try.

[NTX]

I wonder if the child sex abuse rate has gone up or down since then.

What gets to me is that they were able to get this far without any proof. The onus should be on them to find relevant proof for their claim, it's the least they can do after stepping on so many toes. I find it odd that an organization founded by 3 attorneys felt it unnecessary to provide the appropriate evidence.

So I was racking my brain on how one can prove that there's no relationship between the number of games involving rape that're played and the number of actual rapes that occured. Besides the obvious/unlikely (go to a significant sample size of convicted rapists, ask them if they've played eroge with rape in them before their first real or attempted rape) and the unlikely/illegal (track down everyone who's bought a rape eroge, see how many have raped people after shipping), I made some thought experiments. If the number and availability of homosexual pornography went up, would you expect more people to become homosexual? Does it normalize and promote homosexuality just because it's out there? Conversely, would you expect the number of homosexual people in the world to go down if homosexual pornography was abolished? How about interracial pornography? S&M? Do they really think people change because these things exist somewhere online or in a store, or because it didn't? Because that's what they're saying is the case with rape eroge.

I wonder if the porn industry would be willing to experiment for us. I wonder if I'd turn homosexual if they started selling gay porn at every corner store.

[drmchsr0]

Originally Posted by NTX

I'm wondering if fighting against the loli ban is a lost cause. There've already been a number of convictions of people possessing loli material, and taking it on right now along with the feminist group's silly belief that games with rape lead to real rape is like starting a war on 2 different fronts.

Well, we have to try, but quite simply put, the rape thing is a macguffin.

The real issue would be about Japan itself. If they can do this because some WESTERN feminist group says it's possible, then Japan really has an ego problem.

Unfortunately, you really need a very good moral foundation in order to fight the ban. Screaming about freedom of speech, artistic freedom and whatnot sounds good, but it's an extremely saky foundation to go on, and some religious nutjob organization (New Komeito, probably) can tear the campaign to pieces by simply being on a firmer moral foundation. And Sankaku Complex doesn't actually have any moral foundations to claim to be standing on, let alone build on. (point is, if you're reading Sankaku Complex, no one is going to take you seriously, if they aren't calling you attention-seeking blowhards. Not that I don't sympathize with people who do want to fight, though, just pointing out you really need a better moral foundation to stand on)

Worse still, the otaku aren't exactly Japan's favorite people to begin with. They're like social outcasts, tolerated simply because they just happen to be fiercely nationalistic, even though polite Japanese society would rather they disappear off the face of the planet.

We have this 1999 study on our side.
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/online_ar...y_rape_jp.html

It shows that the avaibility of pornography (catering to all sorts of fetishes, in the West and Japan) coincided with decreases in the amount of sexual crimes (harassment, rape, etc).

Also, we have some feminists on our side:
http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/FAC

Remember, child pornography laws were created to protect the children, not to punish what is considered morally wrong. Law systems should work logically. But some religious groups in the West and Japan (Sokka Gakkai), and parties searching for populist measures which will gather public support (LDP) are using a distorted vision of child pornography, rape, fictional depiction (etc) laws. Fictional depictions of loli, rape, etc do not harm any children or women or human being. And most scientific studies have proven that it does not elevate the amount of sexual crimes against children, women, etc; just the opposite: it decreases them.

Please, help us to fight! We are gathering enough evidence and support.

And forgive my imperfect English.

In sum, the concern that countries allowing pornography would show increased sex crime rates due to modeling or that adolescents in particular would be negatively vulnerable to and receptive to such models or the society would be otherwise adversely effected has not been vindicated. It is certainly clear from our data and analysis that a massive increase in available pornography in Japan has been correlated with a dramatic decrease in sexual crimes and most so among youngsters as perpetrators or victims. We have mentioned some possible influential factors.

Also: We are not only fighting against the ban on lolicon, but all the other measures the New Komeito and LDP are searching to impose on eroge, video game and manga.

You can read them here:
http://zepy.momotato.com/2009/06/27/...une-conference

[conman]

Originally Posted by drmchsr0

The real issue would be about Japan itself. If they can do this because some WESTERN feminist group says it's possible, then Japan really has an ego problem.

People seem to have missed the point on this. They're using this simply as an excuse to start their own agenda. There are multiple things going on, and we're affected by the eroge manufacturers blocking outside access, but that's only a small reflection of what's going on, and the eroge manufacturers doing their best to protect themselves. There's a much greater push politically to change their censorship laws. Don't believe for a moment that outside pressure alone makes Japan change their mind (can someone say whaling?).

[Stranger]

well... while reading the latest entry in the Canned Dogs, about the latest illusion game, I tryed to visit the illusion's site and got the message

申し訳御座いませんが、指定されたページを見つける事が出来ませんでした。

お手数では御座いますが、イリュージョンホー�*ページのトップよりお入り下さい。

http://www.illusion.jp
※この画面から前ページに戻る�*�合はブラウザの「戻る」ボタンか�*ーボードの「Backspace」をお使い下さい。

according to google translator, it is "page can't be found error". But the error is there even while visiting their homepage! site update? or have we been blocked? I honestly can't say :-(

[Asceai]

Illusion's blocked foreign IPs. Did you really expect them NOT to?

[Stranger]

actually I did expect them to do so and I expected them to do it first. But the error message is not a message that tell us to buzz off. So I am not sure if we have been blocked or not. Some sort of a conformation would be nice ;-)

beside RapeLay, does illusion have any rape titles? if not, I honestly can't see why they would want block foreign IP after they have withdrawn the title from the market.

extra: incase anyone is wandering... I haven't visited their website in while, so I don't know if this message have been their for all this time or just today.

As far as I know, they have quite a few Rape titles.

Or "Training Sims"
s. Hako.

And well, foreign ips seem to be banned.
Japan IPs still have access.

[Asceai]

Originally Posted by Stranger

actually I did expect them to do so and I expected them to do it first. But the error message is not a message that tell us to buzz off. So I am not sure if we have been blocked or not. Some sort of a conformation would be nice ;-)

Er, I thought my post WAS a confirmation. I mean, I literally told you "Illusion's blocked foreign IPs.". Is there really more than one way to interpret that? =P