Bad news for all of us

[JRaiKetchum]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Lol. What a joke. Stop playing/watching so much fucking Key materials.

Ever fucking played Saya or Tsukihime? Didn't think so.

Oh oh... I DO play Tsukihime. I cosplay as Shiki Tohno at cons w/ my GF as Akiha. Arcueid is my fav heroine (her true ending brought me to tears), 2nd being Kohaku-chan. I help WRITE Tsukihime fanfiction (which me and my friend haven't posted yet). And I am *patiently* waiting for Type-Moon to release the re-release with the Sacchin path.. On top of all that, I L-O-V-E Kara no Kyoukai. >.<

If you're gonna justify rape with Tsukihime, I skipped that bad end because I LOVE Arc! >=(

And as far as Saya no Uta is concerned, I am very interested in it since Nitro+ iis an interesting company.

Never ever assume that all I watch/read/play is anime/manga & novels/games that are all light, happy and cheerful.

-Rai

[Inexperienced Gaijin]

That's right. Key is great for the stories they tell, but type-moon is it's own style and equally good in there story telling. Now if these two would colaborate on a story someday..... sigh.

[Asceai]

To me, both Key and Type-Moon have a very real chance of making the best VN ever with their upcoming releases (Rewrite and Girl's Work). I hope they're released in the same month. That will be exciting.

To be fair, if I had to bet on one of the titles, I'd have to bet on Girl's Work - has nothing to do with the fact that one's by Key and the other is by Type-Moon, just an odd feeling I've got.

Originally Posted by JRaiKetchum

From what I read, it's just media with graphic depiction of rape.... why such the big fuss?! If you're getting kicks off of watching women get raped, then you need your head examined! (Yeah, I said it... don't go ape over it =P)

Why do you think I avoided eroge for the longest time?! That's what I thought it all was! I didn't think once that there were stories about true love, loss, and redemption (the kind of shoujo stories I grew up with so to speak. If you need comparison, think of a much happier Piro from MegaTokyo XD).

And now, I leave this topic for the time being yet again.

-Rai

---

Originally Posted by JRaiKetchum

Oh oh... I DO play Tsukihime. I cosplay as Shiki Tohno at cons w/ my GF as Akiha. Arcueid is my fav heroine (her true ending brought me to tears), 2nd being Kohaku-chan. I help WRITE Tsukihime fanfiction (which me and my friend haven't posted yet). And I am *patiently* waiting for Type-Moon to release the re-release with the Sacchin path.. On top of all that, I L-O-V-E Kara no Kyoukai. >.<

If you're gonna justify rape with Tsukihime, I skipped that bad end because I LOVE Arc! >=(

And as far as Saya no Uta is concerned, I am very interested in it since Nitro+ iis an interesting company.

Never ever assume that all I watch/read/play is anime/manga & novels/games that are all light, happy and cheerful.

-Rai

How can you be interested in a game you want banned?

Originally Posted by Asceai

To be fair, if I had to bet on one of the titles, I'd have to bet on Girl's Work - has nothing to do with the fact that one's by Key and the other is by Type-Moon, just an odd feeling I've got.

I get the same feeling, but perhaps because it's a newer team of developers. It shows more chance for a unique, new creative work on the market. While the scenario writers for Rewrite are certainly acclaimed, and I have no doubt they will tell a good story, they also have well established styles. I don't think Rewrite is going to be that innovative. A wonderful story which I will definitely pre-order, yes. I just feel like Girl's Work has more of a chance. It's the choice that feels more like a gamble which might pay off I suppose.

[Moogy]

Hoshizora Meteor is pretty established, too.

[Asceai]

Originally Posted by kouryuu

I get the same feeling, but perhaps because it's a newer team of developers. It shows more chance for a unique, new creative work on the market.

The writers aren't new at all; in fact, they've been working on VNs at least as long as any of Rewrite's writers - like Moogy said, Hoshizora has been around for quite a long time (since 2000 or so, to Tanaka Romeo's ~1999). That said, Girl's Work's writers are a lot more "unusual", and what we're going to be seeing is the people who worked on Kusari-hime, Forest and SEVEN-BRIDGE working on a modern game with a massive budget as well as an above-average amount of development time... kind of hard to see this not rocking our socks off.

I'm still very excited about Rewrite though, particularly factoring in Ryukishi's contributions to a Tanaka Romeo guaranteed-to-be-awesome story.

[Enerccio]

Originally Posted by JRaiKetchum

From what I read, it's just media with graphic depiction of rape.... why such the big fuss?! If you're getting kicks off of watching women get raped, then you need your head examined! (Yeah, I said it... don't go ape over it =P)

Why do you think I avoided eroge for the longest time?! That's what I thought it all was! I didn't think once that there were stories about true love, loss, and redemption (the kind of shoujo stories I grew up with so to speak. If you need comparison, think of a much happier Piro from MegaTokyo XD).

And now, I leave this topic for the time being yet again.

-Rai

That was such a nice troll post.... made me get a nostalgic tear in eye.
10/10

anyways, back to MOON, A NEXTON, PRE KEY GAME, ABOUT, LIKE, RAPE

[NTX]

Originally Posted by JRaiKetchum

If you're gonna justify rape with Tsukihime, I skipped that bad end because I LOVE Arc! >=(

Kohaku was raped too. It was apart of the story.

[Vatina]

I don't really think the main point of the anti-rape protests here are against rape in media in general. It's everywhere after all, even in stuff like Beverly Hills as a story element....
They are against when rape is being glorified or used as other forms as enjoyment instead of 'just' story elements. I presume with what JRai says that he is of the same opinion.

As always it's hard to make bans and laws distinguish between stuff like that, and as such people get into fights like the one here. Especially when you're as bad as explaining things as I am :P

I'm not defending the ban with this, just trying to make sense of it all.

I decided to weigh into this debate as I have my slightly differing opinion on the matter. Story driven dramas sometimes include characters that have suffered forms of abuse, usually to evoke a reaction in the viewer and in the case of visual novels the viewer/reader. Sadly bad things happen in the world, censorship helps nobody but perpetrators in my opinion as the less we think about something the more likely we are to ignore it, especially in cases where we find the matter confronting and in my personal case emotionally distressing. I've often excused myself from movies containing rape scenes, as having known victims of rape I find it too upsetting. I want people to condemn violent acts such as rape against others, this will not happen though if we pretend they do not occur.

However I am strongly against glorification of heinous acts such as rape and incest, having witnessed the effect these crimes bring to bear on their victims. I'm talking suicide, mental institutionalisation and broken lives; many times irreparably so. It infuriates me when people shrug of the damage caused be such acts. Now I’m guessing most people will just shrug this off, but please consider the victims of these crimes, their families and friends; before you say its 'okay' to glorify gratuitous pictures/stories that pretend rape is anything other than an evil crime. So in my opinion I'd say no to general censorship of the topic, but yes to censorship of works which fanaticise/glorify the act. I highly doubt anything with artistic merit or storytelling credibility would be lost in the process.

[Asceai]

In that case, why is glorifying violence and murder fine? I think murder is at least as bad as rape, and it is deemed acceptable to glorify these things in entertainment, why should rape and incest be any different?

Note that I'm not trying to say that there is anything wrong with glorifying violence. I think censorship of anything necessarily does more harm than good and think that people should be free to watch/read/consume what they want to and not have the arbitrary standards of others imposed on them.

So yes, while I would be 'fine' with eroge that glorifies rape being banned as I don't play those and it wouldn't affect me, I would absolutely NOT be fine with eroge that glorifies rape being banned because nothing would be gained from doing it - the only result would be additional restrictions on what forms of expression are allowed.

There are a lot of approaches you could take in trying to solve the problems in our society, but this isn't one of them.

Originally Posted by Endless

However I am strongly against glorification of heinous acts such as rape and incest, having witnessed the effect these crimes bring to bear on their victims. I'm talking suicide, mental institutionalisation and broken lives; many times irreparably so. It infuriates me when people shrug of the damage caused be such acts. Now I’m guessing most people will just shrug this off, but please consider the victims of these crimes, their families and friends; before you say its 'okay' to glorify gratuitous pictures/stories that pretend rape is anything other than an evil crime. So in my opinion I'd say no to general censorship of the topic, but yes to censorship of works which fanaticise/glorify the act. I highly doubt anything with artistic merit or storytelling credibility would be lost in the process.

So you would rather that I rape real life people, than playing rape visual novels.
Good idea!

Originally Posted by Asceai

In that case, why is glorifying violence and murder fine? I think murder is at least as bad as rape, and it is deemed acceptable to glorify these things in entertainment, why should rape and incest be any different?

Some of us dislike rape and violence.

I never gave any views regarding violence or murder in my post. I was writing in regards to the glorification of rape/incest in some forms of media, in this case visual novels. In fact I do believe that violence of all kinds over-saturates today’s media and has been in many cases glorified. Do I agree with this? No. But that is a separate subject. A ‘well we glorify murder in the media, why not rape and incest?’ argument is the fundamentally flawed juxtaposition of two separate issues (i.e. arguing apples and oranges - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apples_and_oranges).

As to why rape and incest should be censored, let me ask you some questions. Have you been raped? Do you understand the psychological trauma inflicted on victims of rape? If another man raped you and you read something which said rape victims brought it on themselves, wanted to be raped or that it was to some extent okay given the circumstances how would you feel? Think of the victims, or their families; how are they supposed to feel when they see an image or piece of writing glorifying rape or incest?

I’m not talking about taking an iron wall approach to censorship. I’m arguing only about censoring media that glorifies rape and incest. I am not talking about a censorship of the topics themselves, merely of media which vindicates/idolises the cruel practice of raping another human being.

In my opinion it would send a message to rapists and would-be rapists that civilised society will not tolerate inhumanity towards each other. It would send a message to victims that it is never their fault and that society condemns such acts committed against them. That rape is never okay and never justifiable.

Furthermore to the poster of “So you would rather that I rape real life people, than playing rape visual novels. Good idea!”, I’ll say the following. No. I would rather you see a professional in the form of a psychologist/physiatrist, before I see another person ruined by rape/incest/sexual violence. If after that you still can’t control the urge to destroy another human being, well I just hope fate does humanity a favour and you slip on some soap hitting the floor neck first.