Piracy flaming goes here

[GatoNegro]

Elitist? LOL

Let me tell you something, i live in Venezuela, a Latin American country, and maybe you know our fucked president Chaves, where i live, everyday is harder to find $ 'cause the president hates Bush and that things, so how do you suppose to me to pay 90$ in a game where i can't understand an word, and if i go to pages like Himeya, almost all games cost 90$, so thats a LOT in my country 'cause the dollar here is in the heavens and to ship were a live and that stuff, probably will cost me like x3 the real cost of the game...

[nachtrabe]

Originally Posted by GatoNegro

Elitist? LOL

Let me tell you something, i live in Venezuela, a Latin American country, and maybe you know our fucked president Chaves, where i live, everyday is harder to find $ 'cause the president hates Bush and that things, so how do you suppose to me to pay 90$ in a game where i can't understand an word, and if i go to pages like Himeya, almost all games cost 90$, so thats a LOT in my country 'cause the dollar here is in the heavens and to ship were a live and that stuff, probably will cost me like x3 the real cost of the game...

What does the price of tea in China have to do with anything?

[drmchsr0]

...so why are we bickering over how do we get our eroges again?

Personally, I don't give a fig if you paid for those eroge or not. If you really like the game, I have faith that you will eventually do the right thing. and even if you don't I'm not going to chastise you over how you get your eroges.

It's not worth the drama and Gip's smug face when we realize what all we are doing right now is stroking his overinflated ego. To be honest, we're doing it way too many times already. And I'm all out of civility and niceness when it comes to Gip. I'm quite literally running on borrowed civility here.

[Asceai]

Originally Posted by GatoNegro

Elitist? LOL

Let me tell you something, i live in Venezuela, a Latin American country, and maybe you know our fucked president Chaves, where i live, everyday is harder to find $ 'cause the president hates Bush and that things, so how do you suppose to me to pay 90$ in a game where i can't understand an word, and if i go to pages like Himeya, almost all games cost 90$, so thats a LOT in my country 'cause the dollar here is in the heavens and to ship were a live and that stuff, probably will cost me like x3 the real cost of the game...

That's fine.

No-one is expecting you to pay for things that you don't understand a word of. But then, why would you want them in the first place? If you wouldn't, then this isn't aimed at you anyway =P

There is absolutely nothing wrong or elitist about the viewpoint that people should be paid for their work.

[GatoNegro]

Originally Posted by Asceai

That's fine.

No-one is expecting you to pay for things that you don't understand a word of. But then, why would you want them in the first place? If you wouldn't, then this isn't aimed at you anyway =P

OK, thats true, you have rigth; i only get the games that are beging translated, or planned, i know that is not right, and i think that 70% of the persons that buy/download Visual Novels or other jap games they don't know a word...

PS:maybe you guys don't understand what i truly want to say cause of my limited english... i hope you understand...

There is absolutely nothing wrong or elitist about the viewpoint that people should be paid for their work.

Certainly, although it's impossible to convince people who live within cultures that don't foster respect for copyrights. Where piracy is concern, they have no sense of right or wrong, so whatever you say could easily be misconstrued as elitism.

From what I see, those people are among the staunchest critics of anti-piracy stances (with mainstream game piracy among westerners, I rarely see accusations that anti-piracy arguments are elitist, presumably because most have a lifelong understanding of the ethical issues. We usually see cliche justifications, such as annoying DRM that doesn't exist in pirated copies, poor game quality, or too high of a cost for what you get). Arguments quickly degenerate into the rich first world looking down on unworthy, third world beings.

This indignation is further exacerbated by the fact that those people are probably proud/affluent and relatively well off within their own nations (thus they feel they deserve to play the same games as a westerner or Japanese in a comparable position, but are potentially deprived of the chance via circumstances they can't control), so it's a pointless fight without solution.

I don't know how damaging piracy is on the industry, but in an interview with Valve's vice president of marketing he said:

Well, piracy is bad, of course. But I don't think it's as big of a problem, at least for us*, as people think. The majority of gamers still want to do the right thing and pay for their games. There will always be pirated games, movies and music. But the vast majority of gamers are honest and aren't going to steal the games.

I remember when I bought the Wind DVD (and Himeya at the time agreed to ship to Tanzania), I didn't need to search for the DVD because it made it's way to the top 10 seller. And later Himeya almost doubled the price of the DVD (I believe due to the scarce of the DVD), but it remained in the top 10 for a while. Now Fate/Stay night is in the top list and who knows, Clannad *might* follow.

Translation of a game (which I am truly grateful for by the way), might and might not have/will help the sale of the game. But the attitude of some of the translators have been "all of you are a punch of pirates and we are sick of you all". Sorry guys, but do you expect every fan to take a picture of him/her (yes, there are a number of women fans) with the package and send you their pictures? It is this attitude from the fan translators toward the fan errr (user?!) that can be viewed as elitist. In the same way that the fan translator doesn't owe the fan user anything, the opposite it true, except for gratitude the fan user owe the translator nothing.

I don't know what started this discussion, and it does seem like it started in another thread, buuuutttt I thought I might through my 2 cents in, since I am a fan user who is a victim of the "generalisation" attitude that some of the fan translators seem to take.

* offering a download version of the game that is sold world wide does help.

[The One Freeman]

Originally Posted by GatoNegro

Elitist? LOL

Let me tell you something, i live in Venezuela, a Latin American country, and maybe you know our fucked president Chaves, where i live, everyday is harder to find $ 'cause the president hates Bush and that things, so how do you suppose to me to pay 90$ in a game where i can't understand an word, and if i go to pages like Himeya, almost all games cost 90$, so thats a LOT in my country 'cause the dollar here is in the heavens and to ship were a live and that stuff, probably will cost me like x3 the real cost of the game...

Resigning yourself to theivery is a choice you make, and it is 100% not your only option.

(I'm going to throw something out there, Venezuela is NOT America's problem, so don't go there [if you weren't then I apologize for this])


So you're poor and can't afford to spend $90? Well as it turns out, plenty of Americans can't either, but I'll say that it definately would be much harder for you to get anything down in that third-world. And you're right, I guess I don't really 'know' how hard you have it. Although it still doesn't justify criminal activity, to me anyway, it's like the border jumpers who come here breaking laws and yelling they are entitled to things...the closest real life comparison I can think of.

[Enerccio]

One big example of elitism is what insani did with planetarian.
Look, I know, it was being pirated. But look at insanis guide. Is it working? If it was, I would get planetarian legally for the first time (10 bucks isn't THAT much). But apparently, it isn't working. Therefore, I was _forced_ to get it off megaupload. But now, look, I bought cd version of planetarian. And this is where elitism comes in the way. Just because insani feels like to not make the patch for cd version because of pirates, then those who got their cd version legally are in bad position, reliable on third party solutions (which are even buggy). Why? Just so.

That is elitist how? If a majority of people are pirating planetarian, it is the people who have bought the cd and think that they are entitled to a patch that are elitists. They are the minority that think the system should be changed just to accommodate them. They bought the Cd version knowing full well that it wasn't supported. No one forced anyone else to download from megaupload.

To be clear, I'm highly unsympathetic towards pirates who call others elitists when they themselves are clearly only thinking about themselves.

[Enerccio]

No, but it's unfair. Of course no one said I have to buy cd version. But weren't those who pays the one for who the patch was made in first place? Of course no one forced me to download it, but there was no other way to obtain it.

[pbsaffran]

But weren't those who pays the one for who the patch was made in first place?

That is an interesting sentence, because it shows one of the common misconception about fandom.
As far as my common sense goes, only ppl who would not need the patch would go as far as to actually buy the legit CD. Ppl who need a patch don't need the game in the first place, so they probably won't buy the original product unless they've already played it with a patch and want to show their support to the development team.

[Enerccio]

Originally Posted by pbsaffran

That is an interesting sentence, because it shows one of the common misconception about fandom.
As far as my common sense goes, only ppl who would not need the patch would go as far as to actually buy the legit CD. Ppl who need a patch don't need the game in the first place, so they probably won't buy the original product unless they've already played it with a patch and want to show their support to the development team.

but am I wrong? That's what insani did. In a way.

[GreatSaintLouis]

Yeah, you're totally and completely wrong.

You weren't _forced_ to do a goddamn thing. Nobody, insani or anybody else, came to your house and held a gun to your head and told you to get the game off of Megaupload. In fact, while insani's guide is slightly outdated, other members have still been able to download the game from the changed website--a quick search of the forum reveals members were still able to purchase and download the game as recently as January of this year. All you had to do is ask for assistance in navigating the new download site, but instead you make the preemptive and asinine assumption that there's some sort of inherant elitist malice behind insani's choosing not to update their guide, and then have the audacity to claim you were 'forced' into downloading a copy of a version you had no right to.

Take some responsibility for your actions. It was your choice entirely and nobody elses. Don't act like you were left out in the cold after buying the CD version, because insani stated at its release they would not update the patch for it. It wasn't like you didn't know.

Again, you--and not a single one of us here, for that matter--are not entitled to a single one of these retail products or the English translations in any way. Stop acting like you are, and stop petulantly accusing people of 'elitism' because they don't hand you these things in a silver platter.