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General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

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Old 2006-10-02, 20:47
ChocoEd ChocoEd is offline
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Originally Posted by ShadesOfTheSun
A quick question, though, then: are the alltogether translations all sanctioned by the creators of the game?
I wasn't able to contact the author of Visions, unfortunately, as both known email addresses bounced, so I proceeded with the release without permission.
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Old 2006-10-02, 21:06
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hmmmm what will happen to the narcissu 2nd side translation?

haeleth: do you have "permission" to make the narcissu 2 translation?

i hope there is no problem because it's a web download.

to the "kanon problem"...:

it's no big deal for me since i can play the game in japanese anyway, but i would have liked to make kanon more "popular" here in the western world. and this is impossible without a translation, because there are too many ppl who can't read jap. and doesn't have the time to learn it (work, you know...)

so here is my opinion: have you guys tried contacting key, with a alpha version of your patch at hand?

i mean, show them what you are doing and ask them if they are willing to release the patch on their homepage.

that should solve the whole problem. they could make the same like hirameki with the "patch download thing"...
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Old 2006-10-03, 03:37
zalas zalas is offline
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Originally Posted by mr.aufziehvogel
hmmmm what will happen to the narcissu 2nd side translation?

haeleth: do you have "permission" to make the narcissu 2 translation?
I believe Haeleth was actually asked by the original author(s) to do the English translation.
~Yoda is waiting in the air~ | HAVEN
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Old 2006-10-03, 08:46
mansal mansal is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6

Like many others, Haeleth's translation efforts with Kanon helped introduce me to Japanese culture.

Anime, manga, and licensed Japanese games like Kana~Little Sister of course played a large role...

However, it was my desire to play Kanon to the end that started me on the road of learning the Japanese language. If it wasn't for this project, today I would hardly know any Japanese.

I read about Oh! Text Hooker on a forum somewhere(maybe here) and discovered that flawed though it might be, machine translation sure is better than nothing. Later came Anime Games Text Hooker which has compatability with most games, and is getting better and better.

Because of my dissatisfaction with machine translation and its shortcomings, I began to look up words in online dictionaries(primary - WWWJDIC). This helped immensely. I also started using online Japanese to romaji converters(primary - Kanji Converter).

Now, where once I almost never looked at the Japanese text, it feels natural to read it without having to do a translation to English. You could call it thinking in Japanese. Anyone who speaks more than one language is familiar with being able to think in either language since each provides a different nuance and carries emotions/expressions not easily conveyed otherwise.

My knowledge of kanji is still almost nonexistent, but I'm studying and with the tools I mentioned its fun. My Atlas custom dictionary currently has 997 words in it(really small comparatively), but as time goes by I am trying to remember the kanji rather than add more words to this crutch. One day I hope to not start up AGTH, Fujitsu Atlas, or a web browser when playing Japanese games at all.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I don't think there's any reason to be disappointed by Haeleth's decision. It would be much more positive to think about it as an oppurtunity to learn something new.

The road to learning Japanese isn't as steep as some would make it out to be. And with great tools out there, there's more than enough of a support system in place as you take your baby steps.

I'm not the only one who started learning Japanese through Kanon. For that alone, I really should express my gratitude to Haeleth for his work thus far. Thank you very much Haeleth, I sincerely appreciate your work. It led me to a road I thought impossible for me.

Edit: I just saw the locked Kanon Patch Debate thread ... Domo suimasen.[/i]
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Old 2006-10-04, 03:29
kanon fan
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Originally Posted by Haeleth
If they feel a translation will harm them, they will send me an explicit order to cease and desist. To tell me they didn't care would indicate that they personally did not believe a translation would harm them. I think I would consider that tacit permission to proceed in the absence of a commercial license.
Yep, that's fair enough
If KEY has any intention to pursue legal action, it’s better if we know it BEFORE the patch is released…
I’m hoping it will be a typical “I don’t care” response XD

donno why did everybody see this as the end of the world...
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Old 2006-10-04, 06:12
Ayu Tsukimiya's Avatar
Ayu Tsukimiya Ayu Tsukimiya is offline
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Originally Posted by kanon fan
donno why did everybody see this as the end of the world...
'cause it's Kanon ^^

Well I reall yhope Key will answer to haeleth, but what if they don't respond? Many Company's don't respond to fans. If they don't respond is is like "we don't care"?.

I wish Key would be a littlebit more like Studio Gainax (well not anime-whise of course) but I've talked to the director of Studio gainax and all the EVA producers severel times at the "Connichi" (Anime/Manga Convention in germany which is every year in September). But key don't really looks like they want to talk to the fans that much... *sob*

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Old 2006-10-04, 12:01
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JRaiKetchum JRaiKetchum is offline
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Originally Posted by Ayu Tsukimiya
But key don't really looks like they want to talk to the fans that much... *sob*

I beg to differ with that. I remember a case where they listened to their fans on a plagarism charge. The way they found out about Shawn Yu's plagarism of Tori no Uta was through their fans.

Also, I can't see a group not communicate with their fans when the majority of the members have doujin circles =P

In doing some research on my own, I discovered a little more about the inner workings of Visual Art's. Turns out all they do is make the engine and license it out to partners like Key. Visual Art's only owns the engines, the partners own the rest. (Which helps explain that old loophole with designing games on AVG32 or RealLive and only not being able to distribute the one exe file...) So that helps simplify things ALOT when it comes time to request permission. ^^

That's all for now.

Ja, ne
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The answers are all around you.
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Old 2006-10-04, 13:56
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Well, I've been busy with schoolwork for the most part, so I just now have heard this news, So I'll take this time to contribute my two cents:

While my interest in animanga and visual novel culture only recently boombed for me, (probably 4 years ago was the start, now being a high area) I didn't even know about fansubs or any of the like until not too long ago, as where I live runs on Dial-up. However, since then, I'd say I've grown a lot, my Interest in Kanon, AIR, KEy and the like I will admit started with Megatokyo. Before I had spent a year in college, and found myself, I was planning to be a vet (that proved not to work out VERY fast...) and I will admit, It was a combination of anime and Visual Novels and Games that drove me to change my major to Japanese now, in the hopes of actually becoming a professional translator.

Did I buy Kanon in the hopes of, and expecting Haeleth's patch? Yes.
Am I dissapointed that it will not be released? Yes, partly because I'd like to read the work Haeleth's put many years of his life into compiling.
Do I regret buying my copy of Kanon? Not at all. In fact, I thank Haeleth and the community itself for helping me find what suited me, and what will hopefully provide both a living, and happiness in my later life.

Do I plan on entering the fan-translation scene myself? hopefully, one day.
How Will I Deal with these moral Issues Haeleth is making his decision on? I'll worry about that and deal with it after I finish working on the demo for Binary Pot. If I ever stop doing school work or DnD long enough to finish it... and learn how to use a computer well enough to do any of the non-translation work required for this genre....
Either way, his decision is his own, and I don't blame him for it. Will I make the same? Who knows.

As for those who are disheartened at the inability to learn Japanese?
In all honesty its not as hard as some might think. Like GSL, I too have issues studying on my own at times, however, In one year and a sumer term I've advanced from JAPN 101 to being currently enrolled in JAPN 301. And to give you an idea, I once asked one of our teachers how the numbers correspond to the JLPT, and her response was that by the end of 301, we have all the grammar needed to pass JLPT 2. The only issue that would hold us back is our breadth and grasp of vocabulary and kanji, as the course focuses mostly on the grammar, assuming we can learn vocabulary on our own as we encounter it. which is true. As for Kanji, we know about 400 now. can I read them all? certainly. can I read all the various combinations of those specific 400? no, there's still some readings we don't know. again a vocabulary issue. Do I know how to write those 400? technically yes, but usually I'll forget the one i need. Just as I might forget the proper use of a large english word I don't use very often.

As for the petition, I think It's a great idea to send the petition when you proposition Key, and would like to suggest that with it, not only send our names, but add on the serial or barcodes, or whatver, of every Key game each individual has bought. To show that there is indeed a fair amount of people adding plenty to the company's income. I volunteer my name and the codes of my games if we send it.

Lastly, yea this was the main reason I was worried about the Wind debacle. I think this whole issue of piracy really truly has become a more economic and less moral issue than people think. Because even in Japan, the copys of these games are cracked and pirated. Take FFXII for example. Right after its release, it was available for download, and the English version of FFXII was pirated not too long ago. A month before its release date. I think it would be interesting to see why most of the world's electornic using population has chosen piracy over payment. Many will say, "sure I pirate but I still buy what I can" and the true issue comes out: people are acquiring the desires to the best extent of their legal ability, and turning to alternative measures when legal means fail to satisfy their desires. I think this is an interesting new facet of our society that has become much more than just a moral issue, and deserves being seen from angles other than legality.

Personally, I blame piracy on the internet being capable of having speeds over 2.0kbps. Because when it takes you a week to download an Episode of anime, you say screw this, and go out and work for it. becuase in the time it would take you to pirate and episode, you've earned enough money to buy a few series.

Again, I'd say the issue is much greater than any one man. But a given individual should be able to have control of their own decisions, and I respect those made by Haeleth, insani, nnl, and helkin and everyone else. regardless of how i myself may one day decide.
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Old 2006-10-05, 21:15
Village Idiot Village Idiot is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 47

Allow me to tell you all a story of my journey. Its quite long, but please bear with me:

I first learned about Kanon years ago, from a rant by Piro from Megatokyo, "Sad Girls In Snow", and just how good it was.

Back then, I was not an anime fan. As a matter of fact, my only previous exposure to anime were from Chinese Dragon Ball Z Movies VHS tapes I rented from a store, and back then, considered them nothing but "cartoons".

But I wanted to know more.

I searched for Kanon, read anything I could find about it. Soon, I discovered some information about it, that it was something called a "Visual Novel" and is a game of some sorts. A search on Gamefaqs, and I discovered that someone had written a brief Story FAQ on the game.

I read it.

I cried.

I couldn't believe at just how great the story is, even if it was just from a simple summary. I did more searches, and in my travels, I discovered this site. Haeleth's site. A fan translation on Kanon. I was thrilled at the prospect that someone was making a translation, I was dying to know more about it. But, I quickly understood that it would be a long, long time before the patch would be released. And thus, I waited.

One day, I learned that a company called Toei was making an anime adaption of Kanon. Thrilled, but disappointed that it was only airing in Japan, and thus, I could never watch or understand it. One day, I discovered something called "Fansubs".

Searching for the Fansubber Group working on the translation, I learned how to use mIRC on my own (we didn't have Torrents back then, you guys have it lucky now^^), and eventually managed to download the episodes. Then I proceed, to truely watch my first anime.

It was amazing, yet, reading from other posts, I knew that this was incomplete. This was not the full story. But still, it was amazing. But I wanted to see the complete story. I wanted to play the game.

Months passes by, and I slowly began watching more and more anime. I was becoming more and more a fanboy. Then one day, a miracle happened. Haeleth released the 25% patch for Kanon.

I was just a junior high student back then, with no income, and had no idea how I could buy the game, so I searched throughout mIRC, and pirated the game, and installed the patch.

It was breathtaking. I wanted more. I want to play more these Visual Novels.

The friends I met on forums, recommended Seasons of the Sakura and Snow Drop. I downloaded those. They were amazing. I then downloaded some of the "other" types of Visual Novels...only to discover the difference between a good visual novel, and a crappy one ^^; I continued to calmly wait for the 100% translation for Kanon.

Years passed. I'm in College now.

I learned that a group called Insani is working on something called "Planetarian", and the patch was in the status of imminent release. I learned that one could purchase the game for $10 online. I've found a job, and had been working for over a year now, and upon the release of the patch, bought my first ever Visual Novel. Installed it, then spent the next 5 hours playing it, despite it being around a 2 hour game. I was crying too much >.> (I thank you, Insani and Haeleth, for working on the gem that was Planetarian).

Another year went by, and after the fantastic AIR anime was released, I learned that Kyoto Ani. was planning on doing a remake of Kanon. I was estatic.

After the entire Wind fiasco, I find out today that Haeleth is putting Kanon on indefinite hold, unless he gets permission from KEY, or maybe, just maybe, KEY will decide to release it in English t