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General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

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  #1  
Old 2009-01-24, 14:03
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Default Dark Translations trying something new

This new group called Dark Translations, which up till now has created patches only for games by Black Lillith, has decided to try something new and create a patch for a game based on commission. Here's what the news part says on the matter:

"After not having any objections to the idea, I decided to give it a go ahead and try it out. I'm rather uncertain that there will be any interest in it, but we'll see.

The main idea stems from H-manga translators, like SaHa and Desudesu, who accept community-driven contributions to translate H-manga. I'm hoping to do something similar to what they do.

The main problem is establishing a rate to charge. H-mangas have the advantage of being able to charge per page, but H-games are so large in scope and complexity, that even estimating the amount of sentences or lines therein can be an arduous task in itself.

At the moment, with the interest of doing commissions for H-games uncertain, I will simply negotiate and form an estimate on a game-by-game basis with the contributor or contributors involved. Something like an hourly rate could be done as well.

The other problem is actually having a way to translate the game. So, not all games will be doable. The game *must* be a kirikiri game OR a game that is compatible with OAGT OR has tools already available or in development. That said, there is a decent amount of games that are compatible with OAGT, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Of course, commissions won't work without sufficient interest or enough contributions to warrant doing a translation, so get the word out.

Please read the rules I posted at the top of the commissions forum and feel free to contact me with any questions if necessary. The rules are still very much in a "beta" phase so expect them to be added, removed, or changed.

Other than that, go ahead and start posting the games you most want to see translated and how much you're willing to contribute and see how it goes. I'll certainly be commenting and keeping watch as I can."

Also the owner of the site, Nephirin did make a post concerning legal/illegal matters concerning this:

"...I've been personally supporting the games I translate and even go beyond that (I'm in the process of ordering over $400 in games). I'm also under an affiliation program with dlsite that is giving them tons of hits and sales each month. Not only that, but I don't even use the money I earn from dlsite and have already given away over $60 in games and plan to do so again in the near future.

That said, there are *many* accomplished freelance manga translators out there who have been doing commissions for years and they have yet to run into any illegal trouble. You could even argue what *they* are doing is more illegal because they actually host and link to the mangas to download. I don't nor will host or link to pirated games.

That said, I've had talks with bvi22 (the maker of OAGT) and he's a nice guy, but I doubt he would object to me using a function in his program intended for the sole purpose of translating H-games. I am not selling his product nor anyone else's tools and plainly state when I use them (raziel2001au, for example, has generously offered his locale tools for me to use). I'm also considering working with bvi22 (aka paying him money) to make certain games compatible and/or adding functionality to OAGT.

The kirikiri tools that allow me to repackage .xp3 files are free for everyone to use. And again, I am not selling them.

The .xp3 tools are technically illegal by themselves because they break encryption (Lilith's games even include a file that says it's illegal to break them). So, you're free to criticize me there.

You could also argue that the script files I host are illegal, but I've already decided it's a necessary evil to do the work I do. It's a small technicality that could just as easily be applied to almost any fan-based related work. And again, I am not selling their work or the script file.

Lastly, let me be clear that every game that gets commissioned gets released to the public for free. I am not selling the games nor the translations themselves.

I would also like to note that my translation skills have significantly improved since my days of Asagi and I wouldn't be taking this step if I wasn't confident in my translation abilities.

I want to remain as transparent as possible about what I am doing so as to avoid any legal troubles."

Last I checked, they are currently considering a Black Lillith game called Elf Princess Nina (エルフ姫ニィーナ ), Saishuu Chikan Densha 2, and another game called Kansen and its sequel Kansen 3.

So any thoughts on this?

And just to let people know, I'm not the person in charge of the project (I can barely speak Japanese let alone read it), nor am I advertising for this site, I'm just posting this info to hear what other eroge players think.
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  #2  
Old 2009-01-24, 16:39
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GatoNegro GatoNegro is offline
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i don't know what to think, but i would never pay to translate or buy a game with just porn just like all the game that he have worked in.

Last edited by GatoNegro; 2009-01-24 at 16:46.
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  #3  
Old 2009-01-24, 18:50
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He understands what he's doing is questionable, it more or less equates to translating someone else's book for money without their permission. That being said, if he's fully aware of the risk being caught and indicted, it's a lesser crime I wouldn't think twice about, like walking by those guys who sell burned cam movies on the sidewalk. It may even bring Black Lilith more sales in the end. If someone's willing to pay him for it, I don't have anything against it. I've thought about paying someone to translate a visual novel or two for me so I could enjoy it myself in the past (it's okay to dream), but I don't think there's much interest for games of black lilith's size. They mostly focus on h-content as well, and translation of h-content isn't all that necessary.
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  #4  
Old 2009-01-24, 19:45
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I've got no interest in this genre, and I'm not a translator, but just to add my two cents...

After glancing through two of the scripts from the games that Nephrinn's translated in the past, I would feel insulted if I had to pay for this. It's impossible to judge the accuracy of the translations as the original text isn't preserved, but in some places it reads very poorly in English (although some other parts are fine). From that, it's reasonable to infer that there are probably some inaccuracies in the Japanese to English translation too.

A few samples:

From The Gang Rape Club:

With feeling her body jump up greatly at once, Chiaki stopped moving and stiffened up.

Not knowing what her facial expression was covered by the blindfold, he had no doubt that perhaps she had a face that was indulging in the pleasure.

While listening to my heart jump about, with speaking the name of the person who had addressed me with a voice I squeezed out.

From Prison Battleship:

Blushing her cheeks, she floated a pleasure-filled smile like she couldn't believe what was happening, losing all awareness in the process.

Naomi spilled out blurred gasps upon merely having her breasts and butt lightly caressed, seeming to pin her down with rising carnal desires beyond bashfulness.
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  #5  
Old 2009-01-24, 19:48
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Actually, it's not just Black Lillith games or games like theirs he's willing to translate. I PMed him of the possibility of eroge that were dark just because of their story rather than the ero content such as Dies irae and G Senjou no Maou and he said he'd translate them if someone asked. A friend of mine also inquired about a Nitro+ (from the guys who brought us Phantom of Inferno and Saya no Uta) game called Gekko no Carnevale and was told it's translatable.
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  #6  
Old 2009-01-24, 19:52
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*shrug* I guess if people are willing to pay enough for what they want, the fanbase can't really stop them. That said, once or twice I've had people offer to pay me for small translation/editing works in the past, but I always refused payment, as I've never felt comfortable accepting money for something like that. It's something I do in my free time as a fan, for fans, and it's not even my original work to begin with. Commissions for, say, artwork are different; they're creating original works specifically for the person paying for them. If Echoes of Thunder were a much smaller, less time-intensive project, we'd most just release it for free. Since it's an entire novel in VN format, though, and it's got a LOT of work put into it by everyone involved, it's more like an actual product to us.
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Last edited by Starchanchan; 2009-01-24 at 19:54. Reason: grammar, I has it.
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  #7  
Old 2009-01-24, 20:00
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Looks like he's interested in hiring a proofreader to help take care of the grammar mistakes
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  #8  
Old 2009-01-24, 21:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
And just to let people know, I'm not the person in charge of the project
are you really REALLY sure?
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  #9  
Old 2009-01-25, 01:24
Nephrinn Nephrinn is offline
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Quote:
After glancing through two of the scripts from the games that Nephrinn's translated in the past, I would feel insulted if I had to pay for this. It's impossible to judge the accuracy of the translations as the original text isn't preserved, but in some places it reads very poorly in English (although some other parts are fine). From that, it's reasonable to infer that there are probably some inaccuracies in the Japanese to English translation too.
I've had this discussion before, but Japanese to English translation is an evolving process for me. I admit my fallacies. If you think those sentences are bad, go take a look at Asagi 1; it was almost a 1:1 grammatical reading, and I was still very much learning Japanese then.

However, keep in mind that *one* person translated those games for free and out of their own time. There are bound to be mistakes and parts where the English is awkward. I am not a professional nor claim to be. I am also not one to spend an hour on every sentence until it's sparkling perfect to the result of the project taking years to get done *if* it gets done.

That said, I am continuing to take steps to improve the quality of my translations. All future commissioned translation work will be proofread and revised before being released. My hope is that they will start edging towards professional translations, like Peach Princess. Unfortunately, that's not something that will happen over night.

I think dark games are some of the most neglected games in the genre and rarely do you see them translated to English let alone anything that's even remotely new. I'm in the position to change that and, while I have a tremendous amount of support, it is the critics that have really shaped what I've done and continue to do.
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  #10  
Old 2009-01-25, 06:52
Toranth Toranth is offline
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On the practical side, as Ignosco mentioned, once you start selling something, quality becomes a serious issue. Just look at the way some people have reacted to Mangagamer.

On the ethical side, perhaps I'm just an old fogey who formed his attitudes back in the days when anime was traded around on tapes, but this seems perilously close to bootlegging, and bootleggers are the scum of the earth.
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  #11  
Old 2009-01-25, 06:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephrinn View Post
I think dark games are some of the most neglected games in the genre and rarely do you see them translated
And there is good reason why they're not!
They're short mindless stories (if one could even call them that) without any substance or plot.