NNL and stuff

http://www.nnl1.com/

Why hello there, Gemot, you cesspool of elitism full of people who know Japanese, post anonymously in said language to maintain their erections, and rub it in the faces of the less fortunate!

Interesting how this guy seems to think that "the only place I'm really active is 2ch" means "I post on Gemot a lot", but eh, logic, who needs it?

Oh, right, offending paragraph in case they decide to take it down or something.

Posts from TH2 translation board:

Admin: "In case you're wondering, large places the people who have the patch visit include Megatokyo, AnimeSuki, and the RAML, so if you're active members of those places, chances of you getting the translation are higher."

Omgwtflolzzz: "Damn, the only place I'm really active (ie- More than one post per month) on is 2ch.

Well, I understand Japanese, so no big loss for me. :P

I only look at translated stuff to grumble about how bad they are, besides.

>>Megatokyo, AnimeSuki, and the RAML

Say, what about http://forums.visualnews.net, don't your guys hang around there?"

What NNL has to say about Omgwtflolzzz's post:

And that is why the Gemot (visualnews.net message board) is the cesspool of elitism. It's full of people who know Japanese, post anonymously in said language to maintain their erections, and rub it in the faces of the less fortunate. They can't do that in 2ch because posting in Japanese there wouldn't be anything special, would it? The fact that the administrator (Misu) hasn't cleaned up the place speaks volumes about his leadership. That, compounded with the fact that visualnews.net started the whole mess last summer, is why we're severing ties with them and choosing another host for our next release.

NNL could easily post all of our updates in Japanese. However, we all know how ridiculous that would be. We're more down-to-earth than that.

[Misu]

Oh well, Gipface is entitled to his opinion...

Originally Posted by GipFace

The fact that the administrator (Misu) hasn't cleaned up the place speaks volumes about his leadership.

As for my logic, yes, I personally think that some of the Unregistered bashing has been getting out of hand as of late. I had decided to make an amendments to the rules during the transition of the board to new software saying that I would take a slightly more aggressive approach to moderating and filtering through posts. Once the finalized text is posted, I'll expect people to follow it without too much complaints.

So what about in the past? Well, when I received this board from Haeleth, he asked that I keep the same spirit that the board had when he was running it. One of the primary things that was important to Haeleth was that the Gemot would be a very lightly moderated forum. I agreed with that view, as that was the Gemot I had grown to love. As things are, times changes, and with the higher volume of traffic and more exposure the Gemot has had, things need to change sometimes too. A need for more moderation does exist now, and thus we will move towards that direction. Nonetheless, this forum will still be very light handed in its moderation, as that is the "spirit" of the Gemot, and for anyone who does not like that, they need not to visit.

Originally Posted by GipFace

That, compounded with the fact that visualnews.net started the whole mess last summer

Yes, I definitely agree we were a contributing factor. As Gip stated in a previous post, the whole summer fiasco was caused by a post that Gip promptly pulled after three hours. We, at the time, chose to cross out the whole post using a strike-through so it was readily apparent that it was not valid anymore, and we posted at the bottom that the statement had been retracted and a new decision would be made. Because the text of the statement existed, even though it was obviously invalidated on both sites, a controversies was created. In retrospect, we decided we had made an error in our presentation that making it obvious that the statement had been retracted was not enough. I personally went to GipFace and apologized about it later. It also prompted a good look into the internal workings of how VisualNews and how it would present things in the future.
Had we not had posted that..., would all of the Wind debacle had been avoided? Possibly..., but if any one of those 100 visitors were from Hongfire, 4chan, or any other major blogger out there who decided to post this on their internet medium, the results would have probably been the same. At least in our case, we came out later and said that we thought we were in error for keeping the post up and apologizing. I don't 4chan or Hongfire would have been willing to do the same.
And something on verbage..., I think saying "VisualNews started the whole controversie" is a bad choice of words..., as isn't it the entity who makes a mistake the one who initially starts something, and the grapevine (in this case, us, though definitely inadvertently ) the ones who blow it out of proportion? At least, last time I checked, thats how it worked in the real world and in real news media coverage.

I do definitely agree with GipFace on one major point. To go into mockery and absurdity, attack others, and lash out at people for whatever reason, doesn't help anyone or get anywhere. I liked Gip's first post on the TH2 issue. And he has every right to do what he wants with his website and voice his opinions (as such he did on the 2nd post), but I don't think that type of opinion voicing is going to help any of us get anywhere.

At least, thats my personal opinions on this.

From all that stuff about the TH2 translation (that he says "does not concern us"), the unprovoked attacks on Gemot, and the tone in general, I have to say that he sounds like a total attention whore. :/

And where're the people posting in Japanese, anyway?

[Asceai]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

And where're the people posting in Japanese, anyway?

ギプフェスの馬鹿!!

Nah, I like GipFace and NNL. They do good stuff. They almost did a Sharin demo translation, too! But I don't think the Visualnews people are elitist either, though.

[Misu]

I got no problem with Gip or NNL either. In fact, I'm really happy they are around. They were some of the pioneers for this community and fandom, and I am really appreciative of them for that.

If they don't like how I run things over here, their definitely not obligated to come here, and they have done so. I definitely don't have a right to deem how things in #nnl should be run, but if I had dissension on how they were run, I would be allowed to voice my opinion somewhere, just as Gip did, and thats perfectly fine too.

Thats the way I see, there was no problem in Gip voicing his views on issues he thought the Gemot has, because isn't that the psuedo democracy we're trying to promote here?

I believe I have responded back in good faith and cordially, and hopefully good discussion can come out of this, as debate is an excellent catalyst for good discussion.

[GipFace]

the Gemot would be a very lightly moderated forum.
Good. Then you won't mind if I reply to this Mother Hubbard.

My my, have I made the natives restless? omgwtflolz, you're not approaching Olf and kj1980 on the supah-pompous scale, but you are getting there.

Let's see. Including these two anonymous posts because you're too much of a lazy bunkum to login, you have 221 posts. I don't believe that this board has been around for more than 18 years, if going by your claim of "one post per month."

if any one of those 100 visitors were from Hongfire, 4chan, or any other major blogger out there who decided to post this on their internet medium, the results would have probably been the same.
Not really. A news portal holds much more weight than a random poster since any random poster can make anything up.

To go into mockery and absurdity, attack others, and lash out at people for whatever reason, doesn't help anyone or get anywhere.
O RLY? When a newbie comes in here and asks about something, they are given a stock answer of "learn Japanese", "no one is going to help you", and "that game is too old anyway". Or even better, an anonymous person retorts in Japanese in an attempt to chase the poor chap away.

The Gemot is full of this, and if you think otherwise, you're blind. It makes no difference that I posted my views on my own personal site or the forum.

EDIT: Oh, and it makes me giggle that you check out NNL regularly of all places. Didn't know you were a closet fan. Hah. That makes me feel better than any counterattack you can provide. Keep visiting. ;p

[KaioShin]

Originally Posted by Misu

As for my logic, yes, I personally think that some of the Unregistered bashing has been getting out of hand as of late. I had decided to make an amendments to the rules during the transition of the board to new software saying that I would take a slightly more aggressive approach to moderating and filtering through posts. Once the finalized text is posted, I'll expect people to follow it without too much complaints.

So what about in the past? Well, when I received this board from Haeleth, he asked that I keep the same spirit that the board had when he was running it. One of the primary things that was important to Haeleth was that the Gemot would be a very lightly moderated forum. I agreed with that view, as that was the Gemot I had grown to love. As things are, times changes, and with the higher volume of traffic and more exposure the Gemot has had, things need to change sometimes too. A need for more moderation does exist now, and thus we will move towards that direction. Nonetheless, this forum will still be very light handed in its moderation, as that is the "spirit" of the Gemot, and for anyone who does not like that, they need not to visit.

I'm glad you want to adjust this a bit, as I too have noticed that there are a lot (or a few? hard to tell without names) of people using the anonymous posting to bash people, translations and everything they can make mockery of. It's just not a healthy environment if you don't want to post anything about your project because you fear to get flamed by some elitists who are so much better.

As you propably know, I'm staff over at romhacking.net and we had exactly the same problems concerning website growth and the following growth in hostility. More people unfortunately also mean more trolls. We liked to leave things as open as possible, but time proved it just wasn't possible as some people exploited it over and over again. I hope you'll find a solution to keep the problems in check while maintaining as much freedom as possible.

[Misu]

Originally Posted by GipFace

The Gemot is full of this, and if you think otherwise, you're blind. It makes no difference that I posted my views on my own personal site or the forum.

Definitely noted. I've seen a rise of this in recent times, and was torn on what to do honestly. I chose till now to continue almost no moderation, and I will continue with light moderation in the future, but like everything, there are some growing pains, and I think the issues you state are some that we have faced. I'll watch over how things turn out over a couple months and see if I can solve some of the problems you've stated. That's really the best I can do...

Sorry I can't really give any more than my word...

[drmchsr0]

Gip, seriously, can it.

You're not helping things.

[GipFace]

Gip, seriously, can it.
You're not helping things.

LOL. This is coming from someone who relishes intornet dorama.

[drmchsr0]

Well Gippy, Yes I do relish Intortubes dorama. It gets me read.

It also helps me when I write about stuff that concerns the community. because when I get read, people will know more about your works.

Put that into your head for a moment.

[zalas]

Am I the only one who thought that was Ruri@TH2 at a quick glance? :D

Being back on topic... Yes, the Gemot can be riddled with elitism at times. However, I feel that for the most part it had developed in response to the prevalence of people who think they know it all but are actually mistaken (see the Wikipedia discussion). I can see that for some of the board denizens, seeing too much of these shenanigans will end up tripping a nerve here and there. While I don't particularly like people being misguided or being elitist, moderating the forums to eliminate problems like these do not make them go away; people will still be idiots and people will still be jerks. As long as the occasional pruning is done for things that really spiral out of control, I think these antics should be left alone for people to see.

Misu, go read that message I sent you weeks ago already!

oh golly, ef demo translation or just taunting us?

Anyway, although seemingly contradictory (given that I'm posting without logging in right now), it might be useful to simply disable anonymous posting. Registering and posting with a handle doesn't entirely kill of your anonymity (and this isn't 4chan, no shame to being a tripfag here) and might alleviate this problem a little.

Anyway TBH I haven't really noticed this 'elitism'. I haven't seen people asking questions here only to be met with a flood of 'go learn japanese fagot' and whatever. Maybe I'm just unconsciously turning a blind eye to it because I've become desensitised to it or something (because I'm pretty horribly elitist on the internets, just not here).

EDIT: Also, what zalas said.

Originally Posted by Asceai too lazy to log in

Anyway TBH I haven't really noticed this 'elitism'. Maybe I'm just unconsciously turning a blind eye to it because I've become desensitised to it or something.

Perhaps it is the same with me, because I don't notice it either. Granted, I see the few posts of Anonymous that are clearly examples of this, but to insinuate that the entire board is filled with them seems a bit far to me.

Originally Posted by GipFace

My my, have I made the natives restless? omgwtflolz, you're not approaching Olf and kj1980 on the supah-pompous scale, but you are getting there.

Certainly both characters are a bit affected at times, but I would disagree on the charge of being arrogant or pompous. Your perception of them apparently stems solely from the posts you see on general message boards.

I don't know what's happened to the community as of late, but I don't think bickering amongst ourselves will give any benefit.