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Old 2009-09-18, 04:35
arkady18 arkady18 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 52

IT's OK. I'm too lazy to read in this moment. I believe that it's within my rights to be mistaken. Am I not right?

Anyways, I opened this thread for another reason.
Oh, I was forgetting, I've already asked Wakuwaku if he knew how to extract those files, but he answered he doesn't.

[EDIT: I was so busy I didn't notice I wrote only "Am I not?"]

Last edited by arkady18; 2009-09-18 at 12:15.
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Old 2009-09-18, 13:27
Low Ryder 2005 Low Ryder 2005 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1

Hi there, and "saluti" from Italy.
I'm another guy who is helping Arkady, specifically with the English translation, and I think I should explain some stuff, simply to correct my friend who did not choose the correct words to explain himself.

As you said earlier, a translation based off another translation is not that good. The entire concept of translation revolves around the word "adaption". A copypasta is not a translation... it's something children do in schools.
We are not aiming to something like that, we are trying our best to "convert" the work and make it readable and fully enjoyable, like it is in English for a native English speaker, in Japanese for a native Japanese speaker, etcetera.
Initially, the project was a little too much chained to the English structure, and the result was... well, maybe not awful, but it could be done better than that. In our second drawing-up we are currently resolving these problems.

Please allow me an aside. Some of you may know, perhaps, a bit of Italian. You may know that the "implication" of words is far more common in our language than in English. You may know that a "good Italian" needs a lot more synonyms than a "good English", and stuff like that. These are our major problems in the prose of Fate. It's touching, heartwarming, but... a lot repetitive. And, if a repetition in English is ugly, believe me, in Italian it's hideous. Plus, there is the "double translation" to do, so.. yes, we do believe it's troubling.

And, unfortunately, there are indeed errors in the mirror moon's translation.

We do not want, absolutely, to criticize their work (as for myself, I actually have to thank them, I could not play Fate otherwise), but, if we have to make a clear point... just the first thing that pops in my mind, "Ilyasviel" should be written with a double "L", but, except in the Status screen, it's always spelled wrong. They're minor things, but we still need to correct them.

Or, instead, there are the certain "liberties" taken by the translators, which are not necessary wrong, but they need a revision in a new translation. The name of Berserker, for example, should be the Greek "Heracles" and not the Roman "Hercules" (their myths are different, even if they have the same root)... I guess "Hercules" was chosen for "familiarity" issues. Or, again, there are particular types of text codes which were not used. They are not errors per se, of course.

It would be a blatant contradiction to judge them, as we will take our liberties too... in fact, it's a complicated matter.
I repeat, I love mirror moon for their work. They gave us the opportunity to play the game, and the fact that we can translate much faster thanks to them it's great.

Cheers. :P

Last edited by Low Ryder 2005; 2009-09-19 at 04:52.
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Old 2009-09-18, 15:35
Ae772 Ae772 is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 70

@ arkady:

Haven't really read every example you listed, but I'd just like to say zalas is right regarding "iron". It can be interpreted as "metal(lic)" in general (especially when the person speaking isn't sure what kind of metal they are talking about). If every mention of this object's composition is stated as "steel" afterwards, then it's not really a translation error to change the first "iron" to "steel".

Like I just wanted to said, I first try to make a literal translation, then I improve it and it stops to be literal. But I couldn't show in English this last part, since I'm inexperienxced in writing in English.
That is never a good idea. Translation is different from writing, do not do "drafts". This will accomplish nothing but introduce possibility for errors and inconsistencies.
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Old 2009-09-20, 02:36
arkady18 arkady18 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 52

That is never a good idea. Translation is different from writing, do not do "drafts". This will accomplish nothing but introduce possibility for errors and inconsistencies.
In fact, I don't do draft. I just try to translate in my mind what exactly the author want to say (Where I can, I do not translate in my mind literally: I do it only in the most difficult patrs), but it's always in my mind. I do this to help myself to interpret better the message of the author, since the original text is not intermediated by a translator and is more direct. In this way, I try to lose the least information I can.
For example, when in the 3rd day Ilya tells (in English version) to Rin disappointed, "Huh? Oh, your Servant is taking a rest? That's no fun, I thought I'd kill you both at once."; in Japanese she says something like this: "I thought I'd smash two tiny animals tohgheter"(it's not literally translated, don't worry). In my version I'm doing something like "I thought I'd smash two minuscule insects all at once"
Now, as you can see, I'm not doing a literal translation at all. I thought that saying "I want to kill you" is something "all-too-already-heard/read"; besides, I guess that threatening someone to kill or to smash them are two different mental images. Just think: this little girl called Ilya, who, Shirou says, has got an angel voice and seems too "pure"
, is saying she want to smash two meaningless bugs and behind her stands that enormous giant, from whom nobody can escape, who can easily smash everything. For me, saying that that giant is going to smash is different from is going to kill and I prefer the "smash" version, which I believe is more suited. Besides, I believe that "smash" is the message that Nasu wants to give, since saying that he's just going to "kill" is too easy. I don't prefer smash because is the most literal version, but because is the closest version to the original meaning. As my teacher always says, when one translates, something in the original meaning is always lost. We, translators, have to find a proper solution to try to lose the least informations are possible, finding a balance between "literalism" and "not literalism": these two extreme are both wrong. Now, as Low Rider said yesterday in a discussion among our translators, a translator, re-reading what he has translated, has to stop and think "Would I ever say something like this in my everyday life?". I totally agree with him.
However, stop discussing about our project, since this is not the right topic and it seems that, whatever I say, it automatically turns into a proof of my guiltiness.

(Thanx, Low!)
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