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2006-08-23 01:44
rednaxela So 恋愛シミュレーションツクル2 by Enterbrain is refered to as Love Simulation School 2 in English...just got to know that today.

If you have the patience to read manuals or materials in Japanese, the range of choice would surely be bigger, for KiriKiri2/KAG3, LiveMaker, Alicesoft's System 4.0 and so are popular choices among the fellows in Japan. What I want to say is that if you have a wider range to choose from, sure you'll find the one that best fits your projects. To be realistic, in English languange realm, Ren'py really has some advantage, perhaps not in functionality, but from language level (Python-like) to the rich materials available.
2006-08-22 10:19
ChocoEd
Quote:
Originally Posted by K
I'm not going to argue Blade is actually better or anything, but it seems to get more hate here than seems to be merited...?
There's also some annoyance/jealousy/backlash coming from Blade's publicity splash I think... it would be awesome for Ren'py or ONScripter to have had equal press releases, Slashdot and ANN coverage, etc. "Why are they getting all the attention when 'we' have been doing the same thing, for longer, and better?"
2006-08-22 10:15
Oddly enough, it just occurred that I looked at Ren'py and it suddenly also made sense. Err. Moot point now?
2006-08-22 09:54
Mihara
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shii
I think a significant number of points against it have been outlined.
It cannot possibly be as bad as the engine for the first Russian visual novel, 'Book of the dead: the Lost Souls' though. :) I can tell you a long horror story about this one. (The game content is horrifying too, but not because it's scary - just because it's way too bad for what I would expect a commercial game to be.)
2006-08-22 09:48
Shii
Quote:
Originally Posted by K
I'm not going to argue Blade is actually better or anything, but it seems to get more hate here than seems to be merited...?
I think a significant number of points against it have been outlined.
2006-08-22 09:24
Like I said, I don't question that it's extremely deficient in features. Just... not all projects actually require variables (visual novels?) and I'm under the impression that Blade _is_ being worked on and should support these things eventually.

I'm not going to argue Blade is actually better or anything, but it seems to get more hate here than seems to be merited...?
2006-08-22 04:36
rednaxela
Quote:
Originally Posted by K
Dunno. Just felt like nobody here was willing to stand up for it at all... >_>;;
Gotta say, when you've got free VN interpreters that are open source and already in shape, and a closed-source one that's still "in infancy stage", it really isn't a hard choice of what to choose, unless, well, one might think the ease of writing in Blade's script is really worth of loosing even the ability to use variables. Variable customization sometimes seem so critical that once I heard a fellow complaining KrKr2 doesn't provide random numbers that he needed to get his system-in-mind working. And one question: what's Blade's Japanese counterpart mentioned on their official site? I'm sure I saw this:
Quote:
Blade Engine was developed based on professional Visual Novel engine being used in Japan
There's a VN tool (or extendible VN game, should I say) published by enterbrain, called Ren'ai-simulation Tsukuru 2 (duh, I dunno if it's got an English name...the official site for the series is at http://www.daiichi-koutsu.co.jp/mbi/renai-main.html), we call it LM2 for short. If you want easy coding, this one might be even easier to use than Blade, wouldn't it? But, it's in Japanese. I've seen two Chinese versions (simplified/traditional) of this, too, but dunno if there is an English version.

If anyone would like to try, I'm sure KrKr2/KAG3 is also a good choice in terms of making original English-language VNs. It's open source, it supports unicode, and it supports plug-ins to add your own customizations. but anyway you might want to tweak some of the details a little bit before actually using it, like menus. There's even a developing environment (something like IDE where you can edit your code and debug and sorts...) project going on called KKDE, hosted on SourceForge (https://sourceforge.jp/projects/kkde/). The down side might be that I haven't seen much English materials covering KrKr2. So, should anyone work on English support for KrKr2, it might be a good choice.

ONScripter is something I have to thank to, for it's the very VN tool that made my PSP useful...
2006-08-21 21:30
Clearly I must be thick or something, but Blade is the only one I looked at and thought that I could just dive right in and make something with.

I don't question that it's extremely feature-deficient, but assuming they do work on the things they say they're working on, I kinda like the direction it's heading in.

Dunno. Just felt like nobody here was willing to stand up for it at all... >_>;;
2006-08-05 05:29
gp32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haeleth
I think that feature is actually in the main trunk; IIRC (and I may not, but no doubt gp32 will correct me if I'm wrong) it originated in Mirror Moon's Tsukihime translation.
That is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PyTom
Does ONscripter use Shift-JIS internally, or unicode?
SJIS. This, by the way, is why it is impossible to use ONScripter to translate a game into, say, French or Spanish. I have absolutely zero interest in changing this.
2006-08-05 04:48
PyTom I should point out that Ren'Py owes a significant debt to ONscripter, and especialy to the people who translated ONscripter games. A number of features of Ren'Py were inspired by ONscripter, with the most notable being the image-controlled dissolve feature.

While I believe Ren'Py has a superset of the functionality in ONscripter, that' largely because Ren'Py benefited from that experience. (Of course, there is a difference in language style between Ren'Py and Nscripter.)

Does ONscripter use Shift-JIS internally, or unicode? I recall there being some issues that when a Chinese team tried to use RlDev, and I was wondering if ONscripter has the same issues.
2006-08-05 02:54
Haeleth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto
As far as I know, only insani's branch of ONScripter has been adapted for single-byte/English scripts.
I think that feature is actually in the main trunk; IIRC (and I may not, but no doubt gp32 will correct me if I'm wrong) it originated in Mirror Moon's Tsukihime translation.
2006-08-04 22:09
Quote:
Next, we have ONScripter. Itís an English adaptation of NScripter, a prominent VN engine in Japan.
It's not really correct to refer to ONScripter as an English adaptation of NScripter. It's an open source clone, but it's still Japanese. As far as I know, only insani's branch of ONScripter has been adapted for single-byte/English scripts.
2006-08-04 12:21
Blue Lemma The next revision is out. This is the one I'm going to stick with for now, unless there is something major I messed up on ^_^;

As usual, you can find it at http://lemmasoft.net/renai_dev/comparison.htm

There's also a chart-only version without my commentary at http://lemmasoft.net/renai_dev/chart.htm

Feedback still welcome, of course! :)
2006-08-04 08:10
Blue Lemma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shii
Blade presents some sort of weird, Orwellian community where they pretend to be the only visual novel engine in existence and their crappy, incomprehensible nagware purports to be God's bountiful gift to the world of software.
I agree (although I might say it's... "disappointingly feature-deficient" instead of crappy - If you're in the bounds of their engine, you can make decent VNs.) I made my views known to them in no uncertain terms here:

http://bladeengine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41

Anyway, when you compare ONScripter and Ren'Py to Blade, the differences speak for themselves. It's hardly a contest, except for the ease of learning category. That brings me to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatSaintLouis
And as far as sample demo novels go, isn't the extensive library of both trial editions (look to these for those fancier effects) and doujin titles hosted on insani's site example enough? And that's not even taking into account all of the Japanese releases that, while the game text may not be in English, still provide easily accessable examples of various engine features.
I agree that there is a lot of ONScripter stuff out there, but the key is that it is largely Japanese. The main point of the paper is to compare the English engines out there, so anything that requires the user to sift through Japanese isn't counted. As far as the "extensive library" of sample demo novels, I can't find it. If someone can point me to English sample demos, I would be very interested. The translated titles are of some use, but they're not exactly a showcase of how to work the engine. You'd have to play through each novel just to see what effects there are, so I'd imagine they're of marginal practical use as a reference for the beginning developer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatSaintLouis
Ren'Py gets the win because it supports, through third party conversion (incidentally, have you ever been through the purgatory that is converting AVI to MPEG files?) the same thing that ONScripter does natively? That seems like a less than fair comparison.
You have a point here, but an AVI to MPEG conversion is still easier than the code-hacking one would have to do in order to get ONScripter to match Ren'Py's functionality in the other subcategories there. Anyway, I'll take a closer look at this section again :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatSaintLouis
...shows a much lesser degree of familiarity with the possibilities and applications of (O)Nscripter than Ren'Py.
That's why I'm here ;-) I was going to post on the Blade forum for comments, too, but they don't seem to allow talk of other engines, soooo...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gp32
The author is also comparing ONScripter-insani, in specific, to Ren'Py and Blade.
I will note this and look into it more.

Thanks for the feedback! I'll post the next revision soon.
2006-08-04 06:56
gp32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haeleth
You can't really call ONScripter a tried-and-tested commercial platform. NScripter is, but NScripter doesn't even support (non-ugly) English text. ONScripter is a good clone, but it's not complete, and I would hesitate to describe it as stable given the number of changes and bug fixes that were required to get it into a suitable state for at2k6.
Agree. And there are still so many bugs to be hunted down.

The author is also comparing ONScripter-insani, in specific, to Ren'Py and Blade. Mainline ONScripter is really quite different at this point. I also, for the record, don't think that anyone should create an English game in ONScripter. The program is something that I found myself forced to work on given the translations I wanted to do, and I'm completely uninterested in supporting it for any reason other than that.
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