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General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

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2010-09-11 01:42
Unregistered Recently one of my favourite manga translation groups, that really worked hard to give a quality release, dropped a certain manga and the new group that has picked it up is awful. Their releases are faster but they full of typos, commas in random places, and worst of all: "the 2 of us".

I am definitely happier to wait longer for a quality product; if that means only having one translator, so be it.

However it's important to remember, consistency does not always mean quality. Two good translators will still translate well. In fact, if the translators are less skilled then I believe having multiple translators may work to the groups favour.

But one translator is probably the best way, and I'm glad so many groups are using this method.
2010-09-10 23:01
Moogy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asceai View Post
Saya no Uta, that came infinitely close to completion but never got a final high-quality release
Would just like to clear this up. In January 2009, I released a v0.9 of the patch. It was complete and playable; there were no actual textual issues beyond some typos. There were simply some technical issues to be sorted out (translating some dialogues and fixing the load times, iirc).

In February, I released v1.0, the final version, which fixed the aforementioned technical errors as well as all of the reported typos. So, yes, Saya did get a "finished" release.

Kikokugai's release is also considered finished, though it's a bit of a ghetto "patch," since we forced it into Saya's engine and as such you cannot view any of the game extras.

Hanachirasu is currently in a completely playable state, save for an issue with transparency in the credits and an untranslated rape scene, both of which will be worked out before the final release. Unlike Kikokugai, we actually went through with hacking the Saya word-wrapping into Hanachirasu's own engine, so all of the game's functionality is retained.

...Actually, we didn't translate the minigame in Hanachirasu, so I guess there is that. I still consider it a "finished" release though.

Muramasa should be much the same whenever it eventually gets finished; our approach to N2System has come a long way since the days of C;H. Looks like R11's getting its technical problems cleaned up for a final release at the moment as well. I'm not arguing that there needn't be more polish on some TLWiki releases, mind you, I'd just like to avoid misunderstandings.
2010-09-10 22:28
Cosign
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyuichi View Post
It's probably obvious but I am completely opposed to this idea that "any translation is a translation worth playing".
And I agree.
2010-09-10 22:15
jyuichi Since it was brought up, the Chaos;Head patch was pretty damn terrible. At least they admitted it was alpha but I was glad I could understand Japanese for quite a bit of it. Usually I lend good titles to my friends but the patch was too painful...

It's probably obvious but I am completely opposed to this idea that "any translation is a translation worth playing".
2010-09-10 21:57
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosign View Post
So within 13 months, they were able to translate 99.999% of 100432 lines of text (or 3.16 Mb). While I won't say it is the most efficient beast I've ever seen, I would still commend it for being an exceptional feat.

Yes. The translation quality was not the most consistent. But all I am asking is, 'Is that really what fans want?'.
From what I tried, the Clannad stuff was borderline unreadable in many places. That's not even accounting for translation accuracy.

While the project moved quickly at first, I think the inability to finish speaks for itself. Obviously, people deemed it impossible to salvage, at least not without someone redoing most of it from scratch.

Nevertheless, I think it was an important step in setting the stage for future translation efforts. People saw why it failed and have launched collaborative projects that take a middle ground. Doing something like Clannad again would be idiocy.
2010-09-10 21:29
drmchsr0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asceai View Post
Whatever people might say about the 'traditional' model employed by mirror moon, now yandere, amaterasu etc. is that at least they finish and polish their projects before moving on to the next, rather than letting them linger around in a finished-but-not-quite-finished state
There's nothing wrong with the traditional model. All it needs are dedicated people and the right skills.

Now, the traditional model could be improved on, like letting 2-3 translators work in tandem to translate one game (and of course, 2-3 hackers to hack said game, but that might be overkill), which would cover redundancy and even include a mentoring aspect (should it be needed but this is besides the point), but as a whole, it does work, somewhat.

However, the project leader has to pick the right people (skills, personality, whether they'll fit in, for example) for the job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosign View Post
See, I think that is a misconception. We are so tight-knit and focused on quality quality quality all the time we get tunnel-vision. We start to think that everyone who reads this wants nothing but perfect translations. I bet hundreds of people are discovering and rediscovering visual novels everyday. As long as the English is readable, Casuals don't care.
What I was referring to is the sad, sad state of fansubbing today. There are groups that churn out quality stuff, but on the whole, the casual fan cares not about quality as long as they can somewhat understand it. Heck, they don't even care if the translation is utter crap as long as it's in English. Which leads to subbers going for faster and faster release times until quality is left in the dust.
2010-09-10 21:19
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosign View Post
I'm not saying we write crap.
Of course you are not saying you write crap. However, that doesn't mean that you are not writing crap.
2010-09-10 21:15
Cosign
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
It is exactly this kind of attitude that is causing the absolute glut of mediocre translations that are flooding the scene today.
I'm not saying we write crap. I'm not saying we go down to quasi-English for the sake of speed. We are not pumping them out like we're a factory. I am only saying that we take a small sacrifice, form teams and translate things faster.

If you are going to argue in that direction, at least address ONE of mine or Asceai's points instead of sweeping statement.
2010-09-10 20:46
Asceai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
There was once a time when VN translation was something better. When gp32 was a part of the scene it was an intellectual and technical exercise. Yes, the guy was a pompous ass but at the end of the day something of quality was produced.
Not by him, though!

Want to see a good eroge translation? I only recall finding one TL error in astcd's translation of ONE and the whole thing reads quite nicely.
2010-09-10 20:38
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosign View Post
See, I think that is a misconception. We are so tight-knit and focused on quality quality quality all the time we get tunnel-vision. We start to think that everyone who reads this wants nothing but perfect translations. I bet hundreds of people are discovering and rediscovering visual novels everyday. As long as the English is readable, Casuals don't care.
It is exactly this kind of attitude that is causing the absolute glut of mediocre translations that are flooding the scene today.
2010-09-10 20:25
Cosign
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmchsr0 View Post
Sadly, considering the fansub circlejerk, the answer is yes.
See, I think that is a misconception. We are so tight-knit and focused on quality quality quality all the time we get tunnel-vision. We start to think that everyone who reads this wants nothing but perfect translations. I bet hundreds of people are discovering and rediscovering visual novels everyday. As long as the English is readable, Casuals don't care.
2010-09-10 20:14
Unregistered There was once a time when VN translation was something better. When gp32 was a part of the scene it was an intellectual and technical exercise. Yes, the guy was a pompous ass but at the end of the day something of quality was produced.

Sadly, today the average VN translation is no better than a crap anime fansub.
2010-09-10 20:03
Asceai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosign View Post
So within 13 months, they were able to translate 99.999% of 100432 lines of text (or 3.16 Mb). While I won't say it is the most efficient beast I've ever seen, I would still commend it for being an exceptional feat.
Yes, but it's taken 31 months so far since ten and they haven't finished translating 0.001% of 100432 lines of text, or slightly over 1 line of text, and TL check the whole thing. While that's not the slowest translation I've seen, it's pretty fucking pathetic and shows that while you can produce a poor quality translation quickly with lots of people, turning it into a decent translation takes a teeeeny bit longer. Saya no Uta, that came infinitely close to completion but never got a final high-quality release.. that was in some other form of development hell, I recall. Chaos;Head, wasn't that stuck in a particular final phase and only had a bunch of preliminary releases for ages until the project was killed off by JAST C&Ding the whole shebang? Symphonic Rain, did that ever get a final release? tlwiki says no. As far as I can tell, MOON. and Sharin remain the only completed projects under this model. Don't people want something finished, something polished and release-ready so they can show their friends and stuff?

Whatever people might say about the 'traditional' model employed by mirror moon, now yandere, amaterasu etc. is that at least they finish and polish their projects before moving on to the next, rather than letting them linger around in a finished-but-not-quite-finished state
2010-09-10 19:07
appztetra there goes the "it's better than nothing." syndrome...
2010-09-10 18:28
drmchsr0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosign View Post
Yes. The translation quality was not the most consistent. But all I am asking is, 'Is that really what fans want?'.
Sadly, considering the fansub circlejerk, the answer is yes.
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