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2007-03-09 09:24
Unregistered ok, thank you for the explanation :) I'm always interested in things like this.

#18-san
2007-03-09 05:19
AstCd2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
So is it true that Visual Novels were originally called sound novels?
Kind of.

As the first poster explained, the novel-like 'big pages of text, few if any pictures' games in the early 90s were known as 'sound novels', while their more picture-heavy successors became known as 'visual novels' (a term which may or may not encompass AVGs, depending on how general you want to get).

Both terms originated as the name for a particular series of games (from Chunsoft and Leaf respectively), but subsequently came to be used to describe an entire genre.

Nowadays, given the ultra-competitive eroge market, commercial 'sound novels' (in the sense discussed above) are practically non-existent. However, you'll still see them being made by doujin circles, who usually have less resources to work with but aren't under any pressure to turn a profit.

For example, the popular <a href="http://07th-expansion.net/Soft/Prolog.htm">Higurashi no naku koro ni</a> (which utilises very few pictures and only one CG) is billed as a sound novel. Similarly, the minimalist <a href="http://stage-nana.sakura.ne.jp/product.htm">Narcissu</a> has also been compared to a sound novel.
2007-03-09 03:43
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Originally visual novel is called sound novel, because it is novel + sound
hmm. The only japanese Game I know that call's itself Sound Novel is Real Sound ~Kaze no Regret~ (リアルサウンド~風のリグレット~), and this game shows just a black screen with sound (choises are selected by Control Pad, it's a console game).

So is it true that Visual Novels were originally called sound novels?
2007-03-07 00:09
DragonmasterX Visual novel is a lot better than "dating sim." I hate people calling them that(a lot of Occidentals see screenshots of pretty background artwork with text boxes and think "oh look, a dating sim"), because there's tons of these kinds of games that have no dating aspect, or at least don't even need it.
2007-03-05 03:42
Nanatuha Don't mind so much since the Japanese call those games by various (and often inconsistent) terms as well.

I'll be troubled if I was asked if Adventure games sure contain adventure element. :P
2007-03-04 15:09
Agilis When things get borrowed into other languages, this or that reason can easily make it so that one way that is "wrong" is adopted anyway. It's a fact of how language works, get used to it.

Just like in Japansee, there's the famous "Hotchkiss" for the common paper stapler (existing right alongside 'stapler'), and if I flipped through a dictionaries of borrowings, I'll probably find many more.

And there's buckets of borrowed terms that have subsequently been contracted or modified in meaning as time went on so that they don't resemble the old terms much. 'Pasokon' in a vacuum is a pretty weird thing to call a PC until you trace the etymology of it, or "Maikon" for microcomputer, which are almost an obsolete terms by now.

One of the interesting findings of sociolinguistics seems to be that when a culture is borrowing a term, they can make their own version, or copy the pronunciation etc. of the source language, and it seems to depend alot on the self-perceived status of the borrowing culture. Take chinese, just about everything we borrow in modern times is converted to it's own unique chinese term.
2007-03-04 14:33
mikey Agreed, it's nothing bad to have different naming schemes for different gaming cultures. People won't internalize something that's not making sense logically or traditionally (especially since they are English words). And traditionally, in the West games are divided by their gameplay mechanic, so having text-based CYOAs, interactive fiction and point-and-click all under "adventures" isn't really going to work, since the mechanics are so different.
2007-03-04 13:04
rg4619
Quote:
Whatever you say, the correct word is still Adventure Game
Lots of genres get named differently in the West. For example, simulation games generally refer to things like flight sims or sports games (simulation RPG being renamed to strategy RPG, etc.), but not strategy titles.

Or how about "video game" vs "TV game"? "Orthodox RPG" vs "Traditional RPG" (or the CRPG distinction used to classify PC-based Western RPGs)? Are these names all wrong, with Japanese conventions being the only correct ones?

Considering that it's a different market, people don't have to adopt the same arbitrary naming schemes. It's their choice, whether you feel it is incorrect or not.
2007-03-04 12:53
Misu You are definitely right. None of us deny that. A visual novel is most definitely an adventure game. But we have to make do with our environment.

If we call them adventure games within the US, many people will be turned off from the game because it is not like Monkey Island or King's Quest. In Japan, the populace understands that the term "adventure game" means both styles of games. Since it isn't understood or even known what a ADV is in the US, to have any hope of getting people to be interested or even know about the "second genre" of adventure games, a different name was needed.

It's just a cultural knowledge difference brought on because of possible confusion it could result in to those who don't know both "genres" of adventure games, as is common in Japan.
2007-03-04 12:26
Unregistered Whatever you say, the correct word is still Adventure Game

>>When people in the US think of adventure game, they think of stuff from Sierra like King's Quest or stuff from Lucasarts like Monkey Island.

In Japanese that game is also Adventure Game

SF is type of Movie
What you say is Visual Novel is type of Adventure Game
2007-03-04 02:39
mikey Thanks, I'll have that in the next update.

I've also added a paragraph about the lack of an overarching term for next time. It's hard to think of one, actually - and it may even be impossible, simply because on one hand it's the gameplay you want to describe (VN, DS etc...) and on the other, the content (girls, romance, horror). And you just can' encompass the structure (game mechanic such as VN, DS etc...) and content in one word.

In the past, I thought about calling all the things I like to play "character- and/or text-based", but that's just not a viable term for everyday use. You can't even call them games, since VNs aren't games, so maybe this is simply impossible.
2007-03-04 02:14
AstCd2
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey View Post
I've not been able to find out several things, like for instance what "kichiku" means as a word and so on.
'Kichiku' (鬼畜) can be translated as 'brutal', 'inhumane' or 'heartless', suggesting behaviour more befitting an 'ogre' or a 'beast' (the two characters that compose it) than a human.

In an eroge context, it generally refers to games featuring explicit and (frequently violent) non-consensual sexual content (rape being the most common example). The current entry seems pretty adequate in covering this.
2007-03-04 01:51
zalas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
>> had to select a "term" to encompass the very broad game type we wanted to cover

?

The term used for all this game types is Adventure Game
Quote:
Originally Posted by rg4619
Also, it might be confusing for Westerners to adopt the Adventure Game classification, since there's already another genre with that name.
When people in the US think of adventure game, they think of stuff from Sierra like King's Quest or stuff from Lucasarts like Monkey Island.
2007-03-04 01:46
Unregistered >> had to select a "term" to encompass the very broad game type we wanted to cover

?

The term used for all this game types is Adventure Game
2007-03-04 01:34
mikey Hey guys I finally did it! I'm so lazy when it comes to registering, but from now on, no more faceless posting. Anyway, since this is exactly the type of topic I'm interested in, please have a look at the guide I've compiled on this subject.
http://atp.manga.sk/activities/grh/grh.htm

I divided the terms into their Japanese usage (left side) and their English usage (right side).

Also, I've added my own views in the "suggested English" part (centre). Mostly it's the division in VN-CYOA, VN-adventure and VN-linear that I love so much.

I'll appreciate comments and tweaks and additions, since you will probably have more exact knowledge about the Japanese usage and meaning. I've not been able to find out several things, like for instance what "kichiku" means as a word and so on. In any case, it would be nice if, based on comments and suggestions this could be a reference that everyone could live with, which would be great, IMO, and I'll gladly rework and rephrase whatever is needed.
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