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General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

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  #1  
Old 2007-05-24, 08:33
teruterubouzu teruterubouzu is offline
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Default Blatant Galge Production Team Recruitment

Got permission to post /o/

Long story short: Making visual novel, no ero, very serious about this so I can't accept or afford sub-par.

Professional level is probably impossible right off the bat, but hey, Tsukihime made it. ...And so did Higurashi.

We're currently still in the planning phase. In other words we just started. About a week ago. Deadline is a year and a half from now. Figured, the faster the better.

Currently there are two official members, as one is in charge of the illustrations (me) and one is in charge of music and program. I have a couple of other friends lending a hand, all with experience with eroge, but the thing is that everyone on the team can write. Or rather, the team is full of writers. I'll spare the details, though.

Highest to lowest priority, I'm looking for a CG specialist, composer, background illustrator, and another general illustrator who's flexible and around my level. If you're not flexible but your style is neat, that's fine as I'm very flexible. Or should I say I don't have a style and fail at drawing consistently.
http://teru.fatechan.net/junk <-- First heroine picture has been decided on main heroine, second is another sketch I threw up, the gosurori is just a picture to help you understand my level better.

We're generally easygoing and working at a lax pace, but it seems like all the other members lack motivation for the moment so it'd be nice if you could contribute once a week. At the very least, ideally members would actually... y'know, want to work on this.

If you can't help, would you happen to know a place where I can find help, or have connections to people who might be able to help?
ちなみに「OEL当たってみてはどうか」と聞かれて「一応本気ですけど」と苦笑して答えた。So L_mmas_ft Forums is no go.

If you have any questions, feel free to post in this thread and I'll answer to the best of my ability. Because I can't leak too much of what few settings we have planned. Otherwise, feel free to sacrifice yourself here or send me a PM.

Last edited by teruterubouzu; 2007-05-24 at 08:35.
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  #2  
Old 2007-05-24, 09:08
DaFool DaFool is offline
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And what's wrong with Lemmasoft?

Please be frank, I really want to know.

Because if you're going to be using Ren'Py for the engine, then you might need help.

http://www.renpy.org/wiki/renpy/Ren&#37;27Py_Games

52 games. Or if you count non-renpy OEL's: http://www.renai.us/ 69 games.

Sure, many of us still 'suck' compared to many expectations here, but I personally think it's just in the art department, and nothing beats experience.
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  #3  
Old 2007-05-24, 16:16
GreatSaintLouis GreatSaintLouis is offline
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That's the attitude that makes me almost reflexively dismiss the majority of the OEL visual novel community: if by your own admission the works pale in comparison to the games they're trying to emulate (and the translations by the likes of Haeleth and Insani are a lot to live up to), than what reason does the public have to take the effort seriously? As a writer, I'd be appalled to ever admit "Well, it's not nearly as good as other works of it's kind, but personally I think it's not bad for what it is..." That's neither here nor there, I suppose, but I don't think it's a terribly lofty standard by any means.

Anyways.

Teruterubozu, I'm not sure which scripting engine you'll be using (or if you've even decided yet), but the point has been made that if you're averse to the Lemmasoft crowd, that may make obtaining Ren'Py assistance a bit difficult. There's also ONscripter and KiriKiri/KAG3, two popular and free engines. Insani was even kind enough to translate ONscripter's documentation. You're on your own with KAG3, though, although running a machine translation like Babelfish on the documentation website yields reasonably understandable results.

Oh, and I know they're still roughs, but I like the look of the sketches. Good luck on the project.

Last edited by GreatSaintLouis; 2007-05-24 at 16:19.
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  #4  
Old 2007-05-24, 16:42
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Kirikiri >>>>>> koerarenai kabe >>>>>>> the rest
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  #5  
Old 2007-05-24, 17:20
DaFool DaFool is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatSaintLouis View Post
That's the attitude that makes me almost reflexively dismiss the majority of the OEL visual novel community: if by your own admission the works pale in comparison to the games they're trying to emulate (and the translations by the likes of Haeleth and Insani are a lot to live up to), than what reason does the public have to take the effort seriously? As a writer, I'd be appalled to ever admit "Well, it's not nearly as good as other works of it's kind, but personally I think it's not bad for what it is..." That's neither here nor there, I suppose, but I don't think it's a terribly lofty standard by any means.
Note that I said 'it's just in the art department'. I can already think of several OELs which beat some translations in writing.

And FYI the dismissive attitude started with the japanophile community. The OEL community has decided not to pander to try to 'ape' anything japanese and just to go on its own direction.

teruterubouzu may be looking for help in art, so maybe he should go to deviantart and recruit artists there. Although it shall prove costly in time (or money) or both.
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  #6  
Old 2007-05-24, 20:30
teruterubouzu teruterubouzu is offline
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This is all volunteer work. There's little point in recruiting someone if they're not actually willing to do this and just looking at it as work. Cheesily put, I need people to put their heart in this. Also... DA is a last resort, and I'm not really looking for illustrators, just CG specialists. 塗り塗り。Although I can manage that well enough with much practice so I suppose getting composers is more of a problem.

I've no problems in the scripting department. A couple of my friends are very skilled programmers and (I'm hoping) they'll gladly lend a hand when the time comes. It's actually the least of my worries. The creative department is what needs attention, I think everyone has enough technical abilities. ハズレかな、ここ。
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  #7  
Old 2007-05-24, 21:31
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Ah, lovely. I had a big long response, and lost it. Lovely. Here's the short version.

I think that the current crop of OEL games is getting to the point where they rival in quality the free doujin games translated in al|together. Let me point out two of the newer games, Starlit Sky and Elven Relations, which I think rival the translated doujin games in writing, art, and duration. I think they compare well with the best of the translated free games, and are better then the worst of the games.

Translated games benefit from a selection effect, insofar as at least one translator decided that a game was good enough to be worth spending a non-trivial amount of time on translating. So there's a selection effect here: I'll suggest that the average translated free games are better then the average free Japanese games. (Certainly, they seem better then the average game on, say, dlsite.)

By comparison, you're seeing all of the OEL games. So both the best and the worst games are represented in our archive. When comparing the OEL community with the equivalent Japanese community, you need to I think we actually hold up reasonably.

I also think that, as of late, the OEL community is making more high quality games. There's a couple of reasons for this... as the community grows, we attract better talent, and existing members get more talented. This would tend to make for more high quality games. Of course, as we attract more talented people, we also attract more people who may not be as talented... so as the number of high-quality VNs goes up, the number of low-quality games goes up as well, as do the number of games in the middle. This is normal and healthy, and is the price we pay to get high-quality games.

I also personally believe that the best way to get high-quality games is to create a community welcoming of all, regardless of perceived talent. Such an atmosphere welcomes talented members, and helps the less talented improve, rather than forcing them away. More games == more good games.

Well, those are my thoughts. Hopefully, they're coherent. I will point out that I supply Ren'Py support by email and IM, as well as through the Lemma Soft forums.
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  #8  
Old 2007-05-24, 22:50
zalas zalas is offline
 
 
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I can probably take a look at it for composition if I have time, but no promises at this point.
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  #9  
Old 2007-05-25, 05:33
mikey mikey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teruterubouzu
... ideally members would actually... y'know, want to work on this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teruterubouzu
Cheesily put, I need people to put their heart in this...
This problem you mentioned is the most crucial and hardest to solve - it's pretty easy to find great artists, storywriters and musicians, and also to get them to do something for the project (with a bit of sweet-talk and well-formulated sentences of upcoming fame) - but it's so very hard to find people who really are committed, to whom the project really matters and crucially who put in something other than work, and at the same time their heart goes for the project, not their individual task - so an artist can of course create his characters with love, but actually, he should create his characters with love for the project's vision.

This has a direct effect on the motivation as well. Usually after a few months motivation drops drastically, there are distractions, slowdowns and alienations... and it's very hard to climb back into a project, since you need to re-motivate yourself, go over the vision once more, and often the mental work will outweigh any pleasure at this point.

Thirdly, it's safe to say that OEL works aren't going to get general popularity, not even if there was a freeware version of Ever17, it is simply not the time, and there is no audience at the moment. This makes freeware VNs have one of the worst work-to-reward ratios around. It's something one will need to communicate to the team members as well - it may seem like a grand project, but with the current acceptance and (un)popularity of the VN format in the West its biggest use may well end up being a portfolio item for those who participated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PyTom
I also personally believe that the best way to get high-quality games is to create a community welcoming of all, regardless of perceived talent. Such an atmosphere welcomes talented members, and helps the less talented improve, rather than forcing them away.
I think this pretty much sums up the message - and whatever is hidden in that Japanese statement concerning why the OEL & Lemmasoft community is a no-go, you're always welcome there, regardless of how ambitious or not your project is, which engine you use and so on. This said, I would still like to know what that mysterious text contains (ちなみに「OEL当たってみてはどうか」と聞かれて「一応本気ですけど」と苦笑して答えた。) - DaFool kind of asked for this, but I haven't found a translation - well, I tried babelfish, but it didn't make any sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatSaintLouis
That's the attitude that makes me almost reflexively dismiss the majority of the OEL visual novel community: if by your own admission the works pale in comparison to the games they're trying to emulate (and the translations by the likes of Haeleth and Insani are a lot to live up to), than what reason does the public have to take the effort seriously? As a writer, I'd be appalled to ever admit "Well, it's not nearly as good as other works of it's kind, but personally I think it's not bad for what it is..." That's neither here nor there, I suppose, but I don't think it's a terribly lofty standard by any means.
I think this only came across the wrong way - the authors do value their work. And my daughter may suck in chemistry, but even if I admit this and try to work with her on improving it, it doesn't mean I think she is actually stupid. And it certainly doesn't mean I don't love her with all the bugs she has. Sure, some people aren't comfortable with commenting on their loved ones' faults (and will perceive such comments as disrespectful), but for some it's okay. And it also has to do with knowing people - I know DaFool from the LSF well enough to understand how this was meant - but of course we're occasional visitors here, so naturally people will know a bit less about how things were meant come a more unclear statement.

And actually, the LSF community has really gained a lot of confidence in my opinion, over the last years. I think through a lot of the discussions people are now better able to see where we are and what we're trying to do, and also don't really get irritated and insulted over negative comments or claims that our work can never really be as good or as popular as the Japanese ones. But it probably makes no sense to write all the theories behind it here - it's fine as it is, and the community is very stable and active and in the end, that's what really matters.
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  #10  
Old 2007-05-25, 18:43
teruterubouzu teruterubouzu is offline
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That mysterious line says what you probably think it says. Simply put, it's a matter of skill and quality, but I think everyone here already gave their 200 cents worth, and I don't feel like adding another wall of text to this myself. Because this is sort of becoming a discussion on the OEL community topic. In any case, for various other reasons, I'm still not up for asking LSF. I could go on and on about that, but I'd just sound like a real ass in the end. It might only cause harm in the end, anyway. As in, it would hurt to ask. But if you really think otherwise, then I might just go ahead and give it a shot. If anything, they have plenty of heart. I hope.

I think I made it clear enough that we're aiming for a commercial sized game, not a light doujin visual novel. In essence though, it will still be "doujin". If anyone's interested, they should keep this in mind.

Personally, I want to see this project through to the end. I can't control what the team may think, but I'll never end up thinking that this is a project that won't go anywhere. I'll stick to it to the very end, even if alone.

Guess I'll contact zalas when the project progresses more and takes some sort of shape.

...Man I sound like a robot in this post.
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  #11  
Old 2007-05-25, 20:56
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Cool

you've certainly got a lot of heart. *smiles mischievously*
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  #12  
Old 2007-05-25, 23:05
GreatSaintLouis GreatSaintLouis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teruterubouzu
...Man I sound like a robot in this post.
Personally, I find robots sadly underrepresented within the visual novel scene.
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  #13  
Old 2007-05-26, 04:11
zalas zalas is offline
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
you've certainly got a lot of heart. *smiles mischievously*
Just don't forget to breathe ;o
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  #14  
Old 2007-05-26, 10:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shii View Post
In art? Really? It's subjective, but...
I think we're getting there. I mean, it's not like every al|together game had phenomenal art... quite a few do not. Then we have stuff like:

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/5...4062007nu7.png

which is a recent demo, and I think fairly hard to distinguish art-wise from even the better Japanese games.
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Old 2007-05-26, 10:36
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Okay, rough translation made by my friend:

Quote:
I asked Chinami "How is the application for OEL?" then she replied with a bitter smile "For the time being I'm serious but"
And for the pic, it's from our game.

I think Ren'Py is the best, what can English speaking user get. KiriKiri may be better, but unless you know Japanese, you cannot get any tech. support.

But here, you can ask Pytom and he will help each time he has time (I know it myself, sorry Pytom for asking you too much.)
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