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General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

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Old 2006-09-28, 13:36
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Vatina Vatina is offline
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Sad news :( As many others have said, I was afraid this would happen when the 'Wind-thing' started. Oh well...

I don't hope you'll be flamed too much for this though. It's not worth it.
But if the only chance of finishing the patch is asking Key, then I too will say 'go for it!' :P I'll sign as well if needed!

Meh. I'm slowly learning to read japanese, so maybe I'll be able to play some day anyway.... though I had hoped that I could lazily play through Kanon in english, while slaving away with the kanji in my other games xD
(yes, I am strange, and so is this post. Maybe I should just go to sleep now...)
Old 2006-09-28, 13:54
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JRaiKetchum JRaiKetchum is offline
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To jump on the bandwagon...

I too don't mind if I have to read Kanon in Japanese. Hey! It gives me more incentive to continue learning a great language XD (I'm already giddy that stuff we've been going over in class is helping me progress in it ^^)

I think that people need to consider the difference between American companies and Japanese compaines. I remember reading about the Shawn Yu plagarism fiasco over Tori no Uta. What did Key do after they heard their fans responses? They said to the distributor to stop production immediately and told them that they would not press monetary charges if all they did was give credit where credit is due. Had it been an American company... x.x I think it comes back to the fact that Japanese culture is deeply rooted within respect for others. You think about others before yourself (which is probably why I am so attracted to it ^^; Anyone who knows me can tell you I have that mentality.)

Shii & Misu: You can rest assured I'll be one of the signatures on any official petition you set up. I'll take a stand as a rep for the great state of West Virginia XD And heck, if my panel goes as planned, hopefully more West Virginians will get interested ;)

Ja, ne
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Old 2006-09-28, 14:02
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Claudio Claudio is offline
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Well, tough luck. I kinda liked your writing style, Peter.
Guess I'll have to settle for my basic grasp of Japanese (can't say I have much time to play games, in any case).

I hope nobody gets all childish with this and starts ranting. Just get on with your lives, it's a game.
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Old 2006-09-28, 14:17
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I am happy to see that there is little angry reaction here as there was for Wind.

Since nobody else has stepped up to write an official petition, I'll volunteer myself as a last resort, but I cannot write the translation because I have been, embarassingly, placed into Japanese 101 (today's class was about 「これはリーさんのえんぴつです」). Also, I do not know the proper venue for contacting the Kanon developers.

edit: I've written up a formal petition, it took about three hours. In November, when I get home and have more free time and a computer, I will post the first draft of this letter for you to comment on and then revise it, although I'll show it to Haeleth first.

edit2: Actually, I might release it earlier if the gemot demands. Seems a shame for me to kill so much time on nothing.
Old 2006-09-28, 14:39
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Haeleth Haeleth is offline
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I will be happy to help draft the Japanese text of the petition myself (and I'm sure Nanatuha will be willing to rewrite my pathetic efforts in appropriate language). However, I have far too much on my plate right now to approach Key before the end of the autumn, I think, so I shouldn't think there's any rush.
Old 2006-09-28, 15:57
Sir Alex Sir Alex is offline
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Let's see.
As far as I can tell, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the situation surrounding Wind. That was a debate over piracy; not only do I not recall seeing any comments at all about what the authors of Wind thought of the project, one of the stated aims of the project itself was essentially to discredit the author to the English audience... This is completely different, the people affected most by this are the NON-pirates who actually bought the game.

The license fee asked for the Kanon game would likely be somewhere in the realm of $1-5 million US. Somehow, I doubt this community can come up with that sort of money.

Haeleth is not "some random guy on the internet" whose word should not be trusted, any more than Key are "some random guys in Japan" whose desires should not be respected. To claim that people were foolish or unjustified in buying the game on his promises, or that nobody has a 'right' to be upset and that Haeleth had no responsibility and his decision is free of consequence is not only ethically naive, but rather insulting both to the people who bought the game and to Haeleth himself. If the man himself had taken this attitude, I would be greatly wroth; he has not, however, and so I am more like mildly disappointed.
Old 2006-09-28, 17:24
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Originally Posted by JRaiKetchum
Shii & Misu: You can rest assured I'll be one of the signatures on any official petition you set up. I'll take a stand as a rep for the great state of West Virginia XD And heck, if my panel goes as planned, hopefully more West Virginians will get interested ;)
State of New Jersey here!

And, anything regarding Japanese language.....self-taught here, though now working with Genki as opposed to various materials.
Old 2006-09-28, 17:36
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07ChanF 07ChanF is offline
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After I heard about GipFace ending up slugging away at a "high class" restaurant, I realised that even IF the patch would come near being complete there would be no real chance that another could pull the same thing off. What many of us didn't realise (or at least me) is the commitment required for such a project and the guts to go through with such a idea. So it really doesn't suprise me that this occurred; either through lazyness (NOT accusing Haeleth of being lazy), loss of motivation, real world troubles (GipFace) and or how society as whole works such projects are high chance failures.
But "Nice try anyway Haeleth"
NB I REALLY don't care about the AU$120 I spent getting Kanon since it was from a batch order with other stuff.
Old 2006-09-28, 18:28
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Minoto Minoto is offline
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Well, this is sad news, but I can't fault Haeleth for doing what he feels is the right thing. I bought the game as a sort of future reward for myself, something to look forward to being able to read well enough to truly enjoy in a few years. I only found out about this site afterwards, while searching for an answer as to why it froze at the first screen (the old forgetting to change the system language for non-Unicode programs to Japanese problem).

It would have been nice to see the patch released, since even Haeleth's slowest coding pace is probably still better than my learning pace. But, even if it never sees the light of day, I'm still grateful for all the information I've found here. Thanks for helping bring together such an interesting and informative community.

I do hope the question is at least posed to Key, though, whether as a business proposal from Hirameki or even a simple petition from this community. And if it's the latter, count me as another person who will sign it.
Old 2006-09-28, 20:36
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Spiritsnare Spiritsnare is offline
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I believe you guys have all expressed my sentiments. It is a tad bit disappointing; it's worth a chance to talk to Key about this; and last but not least, you can't blame Haeleth for his current train of thought. Oh, and if we do end up starting a petition, count me in, representing California (perhaps along with zalas).

I also agree with guest that the licensing of a product by fans for fans would be quite remarkable, but it is, unfortunately, quite unlikely to happen.

I wish you every last bit of luck in getting the translation officially recognized. This would represent another giant step in visual novel fan translation since Narcissu's translation was officially released and sanctioned.

And if it happens...perhaps you can do the same with Planetarian.
Old 2006-09-28, 22:23
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Had it been an American company... x.x I think it comes back to the fact that Japanese culture is deeply rooted within respect for others. You think about others before yourself (which is probably why I am so attracted to it ^^; Anyone who knows me can tell you I have that mentality.)
Perhaps we're looking at two different business cultures here. I don't really know how small firms generally operate. However, when it comes to policy, large Japanese corporations tend to be extremely rigid and company-centered (IP ownership and protection, centralized power), even to the point of inefficiency. In terms of game companies, Nintendo and Konami certainly gained reputations for being bullies.

As I perceive it, the strength of the group is prioritized over any individual (who can be dealt with very harshly for the good of the group. Even at game companies, I've heard of top creators who were window-officed/put on permanent leave until they personally resigned/offered a useless contractual position/some other variation on the same theme and ostracized in ways I've never heard of at Western studios).
Old 2006-09-29, 00:57
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Talbain Talbain is offline
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Your choice, your life. No one's forcing you to do the translation.

That said, if you really wanted to avoid drama you should've just given it to somebody who can legally distribute it; as there are many countries that offer no such protections to people who create distributable works. As to whether such a roundabout approach to the law is moral, that I cannot answer.

I'm of the belief that business will succeed because of those who pay, and those who don't, probably never will. Which is to say, even were you to acquire rights from Key to release your translations, the people who weren't going to pay for it initially aren't going to have a revelation and decide to pay for it now that it's available in English. They'll get the cracked version off the Internet. Unfortunate perhaps, but that's the way things are--though this may speak more of the economy than the people.

Please note that these aren't complaints, just my views on the issue. I honestly don't really care if most visual novels make it over, even ones I particularly enjoyed such as fate/stay night.
Old 2006-09-29, 01:29
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> ethically naive

Naïve? That was the original point, against you.

Perhaps now you are wiser, and know not to take the word of someone that not only do you not know, but also who could not *assure* the delivery of the patch even if he so wanted to.

Regarding licensing the game, as others have allured to, i think that idea is laughable. My slight hope comes from the fact that Key/VisualArts may want to initiate such a project internally.
Old 2006-09-29, 02:49
Anya Anya is offline
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I have to say that reading this debate hasn't detracted me from buying Kanon (and later the upcoming Little Busters) but rather fired me up to hurry up with going through the hastle of purchasing my copy. I will gladly participate in the petition if it ever comes to that and provide any kind of personal information, signature, pictures as substantial proof of being a member of a community that is trying its best to start an "overseas" hype over japanese visual novels, practicing methods which are executed with the utmost consideration of the rights of the original authors.
While myself knows very little Japanese, at least not enough to be playing games comfortably with high understanding of the content, I'm glad this community is trying their best to take appropriate steps into making a true fan community. In my opinion, the loss of not having this patch released can't compare to the potential loss of having it modified to piratized versions. The risk is just too great.
Old 2006-09-29, 03:05
Quazamagoogle Quazamagoogle is offline
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I am rather disappointed to hear this. I'm currently in Japan on a school trip (^_^) and (still) have every intention of buying Kanon, even though my Japanese is incredibly limited, and it will likely take me hundreds of hours to complete one path. (Maybe I'll cheat a little and use Haeleth's older patch as long as it lasts) I would, of course, be willing to sign any petition, and would be happy to donate some of my (rather limited) money towards helping the translation be released in some form or another. I say this not to offer help, as I can't see the gemot raising enough money for licensing, nor money helping in other ways, but rather to show how much I care about the translation.
I do not, of course, blame Haeleth in this respect, 'though I hope it is the ethical reasons that caused him to cease distribution, not the legal ones. I respect Haeleth for all the work he has done, and, in fact, *because* of his ethics, and therefore would rather respect Haeleth for being able to let go of the attachment assosciated with all the translation work than obtain an inethical (non-Haeleth-sanctioned) copy of his translation. If Haeleth requests it of the community, I will delete all his translations from my storage media (With a great deal of crying, of course)
I hope the community reaches some conclusion to this issue, and I will support you all in whatever way I can. Meanwhile, I'm going to go back to the ryokan and cry a bit, then see if I can track down a copy of Kanon tomorrow. :P

Lukas Korsika
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