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General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

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  #31  
Old 2004-05-06, 16:28
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Haeleth Haeleth is offline
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Heh... don't worry, I'm not planning to translate Clannad myself. Not till I finish Kanon at any rate. ;)

As for other people - well, unfortunately interested in the game != prepared to devote years of one's life to translating it. I've said elsewhere that anyone who really wants to play Clannad could probably learn fluent Japanese in the time it'll take for a fan translation to appear.

Ah well, at least I've proven it's possible. ^^

As for the game, it's basically exactly what you'd expect from Key - beautiful (if slightly blocky) CGs, beautiful music, your standard good-for-nothing hero and full cast of messed-up girls, all intertwined with post-apocalyptic dream sequences that I've only seen two of and therefore have no idea what they're on about but they're all swish and monochrome and sweeping strings.
  #32  
Old 2004-05-06, 18:18
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NNL is doing Fate Stay NIght? WHOA

Well, crap, now I have to go buy that game now too.
All the pics I've seen of that game make me beleive it to be some type of action game though. What's it really like?

Quote:
I've said elsewhere that anyone who really wants to play Clannad could probably learn fluent Japanese in the time it'll take for a fan translation to appear.
sad, but true. How much larger is Clannad's script to Kanon's? You, know, for that mystical day when we finish Kanon and want to tranx it next. <insert weak laugh here>
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  #33  
Old 2004-05-06, 21:01
K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weave
Quote:
I've said elsewhere that anyone who really wants to play Clannad could probably learn fluent Japanese in the time it'll take for a fan translation to appear.
sad, but true.
Not really. I think I'll go learn Japanese >_>
  #34  
Old 2004-05-07, 01:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weave
NNL is doing Fate Stay Night?
To clear up the slight confusion, it's NewLifeAnime who are doing Fate/stay night. So far as I know they're not connected with NNL.
  #35  
Old 2004-05-07, 04:18
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ah OK that makes more sense.
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  #36  
Old 2004-05-07, 19:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haeleth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weave
NNL is doing Fate Stay Night?
To clear up the slight confusion, it's NewLifeAnime who are doing Fate/stay night. So far as I know they're not connected with NNL.
oh, im sorry, i mixed up the group names... :P
  #37  
Old 2004-05-08, 12:54
K
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Might be worth a try to run the script through some machine translation... I know there's one out there that's better than Babelfish, but I don't remember which it was.

While the game isn't entirely playable like that, I'm sure many of us have an easier time translating Engrish to English, so more people will be capable of working on the script.
  #38  
Old 2004-05-08, 16:06
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Quote:
Might be worth a try to run the script through some machine translation... I know there's one out there that's better than Babelfish, but I don't remember which it was.
Babelfish is worse than useless for Japanese -> English, and all the English-language sites I know of use the exact same engine. The better one you're thinking of is probably Excite, which does sometimes produce results that could almost be described as English.

However, no machine translation copes with colloquialisms. Even simple contractions confuse things - given 「いいじゃない」 (either "it's not good" or "isn't that okay", depending on context), Babelfish comes up with "There is no calling", and Excite produces "There is no good じゃ". In other words, neither of them handles the sort of language that makes up most of the dialogue in these games.

So, frankly, a translation based on Babelfish's mangled nonsense would be worse than no translation, you'd get a more accurate result by looking at the pictures and making things up. A translation based on whatever software Excite is using would be better, and might actually capture some of the meaning of the original, but I still wouldn't trust it to be much better than even a total beginner looking everything up in a dictionary would come up with...
  #39  
Old 2004-05-08, 18:22
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A total beginner looking things up in a dictionary would be slower.

"There is no good" can be turned into English, you just put a bit of thought into things. I didn't say it'd be effortless.

I'm not saying the entire game should simply be translated into Engrish. What I have in mind is an Engrish to English translation instead of Japanese to English, because more people are capable of the former, provided the Engrish is decent enough.
  #40  
Old 2004-05-09, 00:34
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In case anyone is wondering, excite uses the Amikai translation engine. Like Haeleth said, its better than babblefish, but still not all the great. For translating simple non-colloqiual things (ordering instructions, etc.) for me, it ranks as 'good enough'.

Amikai's focus has historically been on japanese->english machine translation, so its not surprising that it works better than the systran engine in babblefish.
  #41  
Old 2004-05-09, 04:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~K~
"There is no good" can be turned into English, you just put a bit of thought into things.
Sure, it can be turned into English. You'd probably come up with "It's no good". But "いいじゃない?" normally means "Isn't that okay?" &mdash; which is approximately the opposite meaning!

The problem gets worse as things get more colloquial. Consider this scene from the first evening, as you sit eating your dinner in Sunohara's room:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clannad's authors
岡崎「悪い、お茶」
春原「出ねーよっ!」
岡崎「だから悪いって、言ってるじゃん」
春原「頭下げようが、出ねぇよっ」
春原「おまえ、ここが食堂かなんかと勘違いしてない?」
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amikai
Okazaki -- "bad tea"
the Suhara "appearance - 4 -- "
Since it is Okazaki ", they are bad って and said じゃん."
The method of the Suhara "head lowering is 出ねぇ 4."
Suhara "-- I and here do not mistake with a dining-room or something -- ?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by I
Okazaki "Sorry. Got any tea?"
Sunohara "Not for you!"
Okazaki "Hey, I said sorry, didn't I?"
Sunohara "You can beg for all I care. You're not having any."
Sunohara "Where d'you think you are, a tea shop?!"
As Procyon says, machine translation can handle straightforward factual Japanese "well enough" for many people these days. But as you can see it simply dies when faced with anything colloquial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~K~
I'm not saying the entire game should simply be translated into Engrish. What I have in mind is an Engrish to English translation instead of Japanese to English, because more people are capable of the former, provided the Engrish is decent enough.
I'm not saying that wouldn't work at all. It's just that in order to get decent enough Engrish, you have to have someone go through the script first and rewrite all the colloquial bits in standard Japanese, and then, when you're done de-Engrishing it, another Japanese speaker will have to go through it all again alongside the original and retranslate any bits the computer got wrong. I'm not sure it would be much less work than just having them translate it in the first place, except (I suppose) that the person who did the first step wouldn't need to speak English very well.

I apologise if I'm coming across rather harsh here &mdash; I don't want you to end up with the impression that I'm trying to rubbish your idea. Machine translation plus human editing isn't a bad idea at all; in fact, it's standard practice these days for many purposes. But it really only works well enough when the source text is written in a straightforward or formulaic way (like patents or business letters). I just don't think the technology is there yet to make it possible to use this approach on literature.
  #42  
Old 2004-05-09, 15:18
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Thats a interesting idea, but i think it will be some time before a working translation engine of that type will come out. So far there is the only one engine being used out there, isnt there? Its an interesting idea, but for that to happen they're gonna have to revamp the current engine and have some kinda team of consisting of japanese and english speakers which have good experience in both languages & literature....not to mention the issue of money...it will take quite a while before something like that comes out....
  #43  
Old 2004-05-09, 17:54
K
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Ah... didn't realize from your example that it gets that bad. Guess it won't work then, until something better comes out, at least v_v;
  #44  
Old 2004-05-09, 19:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K
Ah... didn't realize from your example that it gets that bad. Guess it won't work then, until something better comes out, at least v_v;
No, no, I just put this in as a possibliity, since, most translation engines are in actuality, large databases or simply a huge dictionary...at the current level, in my opinion, I would consider it a rudimentry dictionary, since literature in general is so complex. I too would hope that a better language engine comes out also, since i do not read japanese either; but my thoughts about Haeleth's idea of a language engine is just a assumption from my what i have learned in my college & the self-taught technical knowledge from tinkering with computers and sort.

Please do not take my ramblings to heart, since they are only personal views & opinions...^_^
  #45  
Old 2004-05-09, 19:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimeOtakuSama
I'm sure everybody would love to have NNL translate Clannad, but I think that NNL is kinda busy with their games as well, so far they have Fate/Stay Night & Giniro ~ Silver; dont forget about their anime releases as well...They will have quite a while before they will be able to even start on Clannad.
As corrected earlier in this thread, it's NLA who's doing Giniro and FSN. I believe the reason that NNL doesn't do full games is that it's reaaaaally long. They simply wouldn't have the staff to handle it. Furthermore, the editor is really keen on editing, and they'll likely argue things back and forth (translator and editor). Thus, if they took the Clannad project, and if they don't get any more help, they'll take probably a few years or more, with them working at breakneck speed. I don't believe GipFace would want to do something like that again, since the Wind demo had him really stressed out.
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