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  #436  
Old 2010-09-14, 09:05
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(I'm the Anon from post 413)

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I will definitely buy 999, sounds like exactly the kind of game I like.
I probably won't buy Demonbane unless I hear great things about it.
There's no way in hell I'd buy Koihime, voiced or not.
Demonbane surely isn't the strongest title Nitroplus USA has to offer, but if it flops badly it will probably be the only one to ever see the light. That said, I'm confident that Demonbane can easily surpass the vast majority of JAST's previous releases in terms of plot and overall quality.

As I said I feel the same as you regarding Koihime, but at the same time I don't want to see Kouryuu's efforts going to waste. MG is practically the only legitimate business since the fall of Hirameki trying to localize a nice number of actually decent visual novels (some of them all ages!), and I don't want to see japanese publisher avoiding them for not reaching a 2000 unit sales quota.

Of course I'm fully aware that my 39 EU aren't going to change anything, but as a fan it's the least I can do.

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Personally, I don't want "official" market to exist. Period.

Why? Because JAST censores everything, because MangaGamer cuts out voices, has absolutely no verbatim copies and just wants MONEY despite everything (but implies DRM - screw that).

"Fan translators butchering VNs"? Even blind people would tell IT'S GODDAMN OPPOSITE!
Let's see:

1) JAST doesn't censor "everything", and as far as we know won't censor Demonbane.
2) If you spend some minutes reading their blog you will see that the dub removal isn't their decision, but is a results of the cost to license the dub and the bad sales prevision by Nexton, who funded the localization itself.
3) They want your MONEY, you want their TRANSLATION. Seems pretty logic to me, even if I'm with you in criticizing their prices policy, their marketing and their lack of retail copies (they could at least sell the ones they printed :\ )
4) No one said anything regarding fantranslators. I have the utmost respect for them all, and without ft there probably won't be a market for vns, small as it may be. That said, I highly doubt fantranslators are cheering for the failure of official localizations.

To sum it up, you are obviously free to pirate whatever you want, but at least avoid justifying your acts with bad excuses like those.

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Originally Posted by Sirf*palot View Post
On a sidenote, I don't have a f*cking DS. So what can I do about 999?
If you manage to buy an used Ds you could find a sizeable lineup of translated visual novel\adventure hybrids, ranging from Hotel Dusk to AGAIN, Lux Pain (but its localization is one of the worst ever seen in gaming history), Jake Hunter (the second release) and upcoming Last Window (only Pal) and 999. Then there are the Phoenix Wrights and Trace Memory\Another Code, if you are into them.

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Just to let you know, 999, isn't really a visual novel in the same sense as the other two. It's more of an adventure game, just like the Phoenix Wright series, Time Hollow, Hotel Dusk, etc...
I know, I was the anon who wrote the post about 999 in the other thread :P

I didn't mean to be misleading, but having played a bit of 999 I think that it is far more compatible with the PC visual novel audience plot-wise than a PW\Jake Hunter\AGAIN\Hotel Dusk kind of game, even if the gameplay structure is similiar to them.
Another example of such a "borderline" title could have been Lux Pain, if its localization wasn't an horrible showcase of Ignition's complete lack of respect for their licensed games and consumers.

That said, you are absolutely correct when you say that the vn\adv Ds hybrid market isn't directly linked with Pc visual novels', but at the same time I think that a title like 999 can't be catered to the same audience as PW and tries to touch a different niche. If it flops badly, we probably won't see other games like that (the scenario writer esplicitely stated on Siliconera that a sequel could be made if the western sales are good, and Aksys is supporting PSP which has a growing library of vns ports).
  #437  
Old 2010-09-14, 11:55
Sirf*palot Sirf*palot is offline
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Well the thing is, I'm not sure which to get, apparently the PSP has Code Geass lost colors, but the DS has what you have mentioned and some new Suzumiya Haruhi galge. So I'm kinda conflicted. When you say used DS, are you saying that new ones won't work with the translation mods or its just less expensive?

Same thing for the PSP, I'm sorta inclined to get the older cracked PSPs as importing Lost Colors would run me 75+ bucks (since it ain't localized, and I think the translation project for it can't insert text, but just has long printouts of the Tled script for you to read while you play, it will be 75 dollars, maybe even more (rare/expensive) by the time I learn how to read jap or when the tl is finished, so it ain't cost effective). Apparently, the new firmware makes it imposible for you to load virtual UMDs onto the PSP (yeah, I know, my firend pirates PSP games "because there is apparently not enough good games dur dur).
So yeah, PSP or DS?

Last edited by Sirf*palot; 2010-09-14 at 12:00.
  #438  
Old 2010-09-14, 12:02
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(I'm the Anon from post 413)
but at the same time I think that a title like 999 can't be catered to the same audience as PW and tries to touch a different niche.
I beg to differ. Anecdotal evidence and all, but I have a handful of friends who love the PW-type games, and they are completely eager to play the more story-intense ones like 999.

But will never touch a straight visual novel/eroge in their life. And I've tries many times to show them the connection.

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
(I'm the Anon from post 413)If it flops badly, we probably won't see other games like that (the scenario writer esplicitely stated on Siliconera that a sequel could be made if the western sales are good
A bit cruel, but then I hope it flops, because I want him to to go back and write more stories like I/O on PC, not DS type games. :P

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
(I'm the Anon from post 413)and Aksys is supporting PSP which has a growing library of vns ports).
Doesn't matter. The PS2 had a huge library of vn ports. Heck, the 360 has a huge library of vn ports. No English publisher had nor is ever going to touch any of them with a 3 foot pole. They all have too much business sense and realize that localizing such things is equivalent to throwing money down the drain. The market is simply not there for the effort it takes.

Take a look at NISA and Disgaea Infinite. That had the entire franchise hype behind it, but being a straight up visual novel type killed it in sales. Ironically, I think it barely sold over 2,000 copies in the US.
  #439  
Old 2010-09-14, 12:05
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Originally Posted by Sirf*palot View Post
So I'm kinda conflicted. When you say used DS, are you saying that new ones won't work with the translation mods or its just less expensive?
Used = cheaper = more affordable. Is what he's saying.

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Originally Posted by Sirf*palot View Post
So yeah, PSP or DS?
If you want real VNs (and mostly in Japanese) then get a PSP. It'll have new ones and ports of old PC ones from now until it dies.

If you enjoy more in English, and more adventure-type games with a splash of VNs here and there, get a DS.
  #440  
Old 2010-09-14, 12:52
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Take a look at NISA and Disgaea Infinite. That had the entire franchise hype behind it, but being a straight up visual novel type killed it in sales. Ironically, I think it barely sold over 2,000 copies in the US.
www.vgchartz.com says it sold 31,842. I know it's not 100% accurate, but it's not 30,000 units off.
  #441  
Old 2010-09-14, 13:02
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www.vgchartz.com says it sold 31,842. I know it's not 100% accurate, but it's not 30,000 units off.
Considering those numbers aren't exactly published anywhere (not on full NPD), I suspect VGChartz made up those numbers.

But of course, I might have misheard the 2,000 figure for PSN downloads instead of retail sales.
  #442  
Old 2010-09-14, 16:13
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(Anon from post 413 again, guess I should use this moniker if I ever register XD)

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Used = cheaper = more affordable. Is what he's saying.
Yep, that was what I meant with the "used Ds" comment :) Also, I don't think translation patches are an issue for vn-adv hybrids on Ds, since many have been officially localized and the ones still in Japan haven't any dedicated fantranslation team. There is some nice jrpg patch out there, though (Soma Bringer, Tales of Innocence and the likes).

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I beg to differ. Anecdotal evidence and all, but I have a handful of friends who love the PW-type games, and they are completely eager to play the more story-intense ones like 999.

But will never touch a straight visual novel/eroge in their life. And I've tries many times to show them the connection.
Since I too was relying on anedoctal evidence I can't blame you for doing the same :p Actually I have seen the opposite reaction (eroge players refusing to approach ds vn\adv hybrids on Ds), but that is just the same as your experience, just reversed, and it shows that many in the two userbases are not yet ready to expand their interests.

That said, if a more open minded eroge player get to know Lux Pain or 999 I think he\she may find it more suitable to his\her tastes than a purely investigative vn\adv game like PW, Again, Hotel Dusk and the like. Of course there are some eroge with that kind of setting and\or elements (Eve Burst Error\Adam Double Factor, Chain Lost Memories and Kara no Shoujo are the first I remember), but I think it's easier to relate to the thrille\sci-fi combo of 999 or to the dark fantasy\school comedy mix of Lux Pain.

Quote:
A bit cruel, but then I hope it flops, because I want him to to go back and write more stories like I/O on PC, not DS type games. :P
In a business such as this I doubt a person like Uchikoshi is sure to be able to work on a game all the time :\ When Siliconera asked him about Ever17 he was so surprised and euphoric that a western site mentioned the game that it almost moved me, and I would like to show him that his work is appreciated (as indirect as it is).

Quote:
Doesn't matter. The PS2 had a huge library of vn ports. Heck, the 360 has a huge library of vn ports. No English publisher had nor is ever going to touch any of them with a 3 foot pole. They all have too much business sense and realize that localizing such things is equivalent to throwing money down the drain. The market is simply not there for the effort it takes.
You are absolutely right, but I think the matter needs to be considered from another angle. In the PS2 era visual novel like games on console were unheard of in the USA\EU, and X360's japanese audience is completely different from the american one, with the first being a niche enthralled by vns and danmaku shmup and the other being a rather western-centric userbase (less so than with the first Xbox, but still...), making the idea of localizing japanese X360 games for the western audience a folly, aside from no-translation efforts like Death Smiles.

That said, since the days of PS2 we have had an encircling pattern of localizations around the visual novel theme: in the jrpg area NiSA has provided the Ar Tonelicos, Sakura Taisen and Disgaea Infinite (even Agarest from Ghostlight\Aksys, in a lesser way), and on the adventure side Capcom, Konami, Ignition, Aksys and Nintendo localized the whole Time Hollow\Lux Pain\PW\Another Code\Hotel Dusk\Last Window\Again\Jake Hunter\999 lineup. This has created a link with the visual novel genre for many console gamers (at the same time the vn fantranslation scene was picking up pace), who are now used to accept games with a great emphasis on dialogues with artworks interface and a low number of gameplay elements. Ds is probably the best platform for this kind of experimentation since the market has been started by a mainstream series like PW, but even Psp could provide a good option, especially because it has a decent lineup of non-adv (I know vns are called adv in Japan, I mean adv as "encompassing puzzles\riddles"), pc-style visual novels.

Quote:
Take a look at NISA and Disgaea Infinite. That had the entire franchise hype behind it, but being a straight up visual novel type killed it in sales. Ironically, I think it barely sold over 2,000 copies in the US.
I don't think the 2k sale figure is right, but it sure isn't much higher than that :\ I contributed two copies by the way, again with the hope of supporting a budding visual novel localization effort. Guess I'm just unlucky XD

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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
www.vgchartz.com says it sold 31,842. I know it's not 100% accurate, but it's not 30,000 units off.
Trust me, it has been before and it probably is in this particular case. As another Anon said before, NPD data for the niche games released in the USA are almost never leaked (only the top titles are made public), and in the rare occasion of sales data given by the publisher VGC has been proven deadly wrong (the last case was a game from XSEED, Half Minute Hero if I remember correctly, whose actual total was some tens of thousands of copies lower than the VGC number). There is a reason if on some sales analysis board\thread they ban you just for mentioning that site :P
  #443  
Old 2010-09-14, 16:41
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Kotaro Uchikoshi is an employee of Chun Soft now. It's safe to say that until/unless he leaves the company, he'll be working exclusively on console and handheld (more likely, given the state of the Japanese game industry) games.

I guess the freelance career failed to produce a stable stream of work.
  #444  
Old 2010-09-14, 17:17
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Kotaro Uchikoshi is an employee of Chun Soft now. It's safe to say that until/unless he leaves the company, he'll be working exclusively on console and handheld (more likely, given the state of the Japanese game industry) games.

I guess the freelance career failed to produce a stable stream of work.
Probably, since the last game he wrote was the rather mediocre 12RIVEN and of course KID is now gone.
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  #445  
Old 2010-09-14, 19:36
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Originally Posted by Anon from post 413
That said, if a more open minded eroge player get to know Lux Pain or 999 I think he\she may find it more suitable to his\her tastes than a purely investigative vn\adv game like PW, Again, Hotel Dusk and the like. Of course there are some eroge with that kind of setting and\or elements (Eve Burst Error\Adam Double Factor, Chain Lost Memories and Kara no Shoujo are the first I remember), but I think it's easier to relate to the thrille\sci-fi combo of 999 or to the dark fantasy\school comedy mix of Lux Pain.
Sure, but I don't see the point of it. You want the bigger market to invade the smaller one, not the other way around. There are certainly a lot more people who enjoy the PW/Hotel Dusk type of games than people who enjoy normal visual novels/eroge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon from post 413
You are absolutely right, but I think the matter needs to be considered from another angle. In the PS2 era visual novel like games on console were unheard of in the USA\EU, and X360's japanese audience is completely different from the american one, [...] making the idea of localizing japanese X360 games for the western audience a folly
I disagree with that. Nothing this generation has really shown me that (in terms of home console releases) the 360 is any weaker than the others in terms of Japanese content appeal. Agarest 360 sold really well compared to the PS3 version, and most other Japanese games are about split evenly between other console releases, sometimes more. The small market that such games will inevitably sell to is small enough that it doesn't really matter which platform it goes to, because all platforms have that size of a userbase to cater to.

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Originally Posted by Anon from post 413
This has created a link with the visual novel genre for many console gamers (at the same time the vn fantranslation scene was picking up pace), who are now used to accept games with a great emphasis on dialogues with artworks interface and a low number of gameplay elements.
You see that link. I see that link. But I have a hard time imagining that the average adventure game user will play 999 and suddenly go 'off to MangaGamer and buy Shuffle I go!'
  #446  
Old 2010-09-15, 00:23
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Agarest 360 sold really well compared to the PS3 version.
Just wanna say, that was in all probability because the PS3 release really sucked. $45 for a PSN download that takes up your entire hard drive on the old 20gb models? When for $15 more, 360 players got a physical copy, soundtrack, and free pillowcase and boob mousepad? I don't rail against download-only titles just on principle- Steam is great, PSN/XBL aren't bad for cheap diversions and indie stuff, and I've bought my share of MangaGamer titles- but if there's a blatant example of unfair pricing among them, Agarest War PS3 is it.
  #447  
Old 2010-09-15, 03:41
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Just a little info about psp/ps2 ports of VN:

Sony does afaik not allow any of these to EVER leave japan. Why? I have no idea.
They however demand gameplay, which is the reason NISA brought over Sakura Taisen 5 and Disgaea Infinite... because they actually have enough Gameplay to please Sony.

So in short: Blame Sony.

I have no idea how MS and Nintendo think about that matter though.
  #448  
Old 2010-09-15, 11:06
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but if there's a blatant example of unfair pricing among them, Agarest War PS3 is it.
Well if PS3 users would show their support more, then perhaps they would have gotten a retail release like 360 users did.
  #449  
Old 2010-09-15, 13:42
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Window
Sequel to Hotel Dusk: Room 215 coming out on the 17th September

It says the developer is Cing... I thought they went bankrupt.
  #450  
Old 2010-09-15, 13:46
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Window
Sequel to Hotel Dusk: Room 215 coming out on the 17th September

It says the developer is Cing... I thought they went bankrupt.
They went bankrupt December 2009, but Last Window and Again were finished by then so they were still published.
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