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Old 2007-09-09, 18:39
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Default Renai games, people who don't play them, and Wikipedia

An excerpt from a certain chatroom somewhere.



It isn't just Triangle Heart.

From what I've seen, there are three types of renai game articles on Wikipedia.

1- There is an English version, or at least a patch. Article is somewhat decent.

2- No TV series or anything based on it. As a result almost nobody edits it. However, there is next to no content (The one and only exception is Muv-Luv).

3- There is a TV series or obscure OVA or something. Lots of people who've never played the game try to edit it and toss in their (almost always wrong, and sometimes plain absurd) assumptions, fansubbbers' translations (often of terrible quality), and overload it with insignificant nonsense from the TV series or OVA (if the TV series or OVA mainly featured an original character who wasn't even in the game, most of the article ends up about said character), and misinformation in general derived from posts in places such as AnimeSuki where people who don't understand Japanese talk about the "hentai games" they downloaded the shows are based on as if they do. The result is the image I stuck above.

What's the point? I don't know, I just felt like posting this.

Anyway, discuss or whatever.
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Old 2007-09-09, 19:46
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*Reverie cocks her head to one side*
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Old 2007-09-09, 20:39
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Why don't you (yes you) contribute to those articles then?

I am sick of hearing people complain about this. Wikipedia is a collaborative project, meaning it's written by people like you and me. If you think its wrong or want to add something please do so (in a constructive manner of course). I edit Wikipedia and no I can't help those articles because my Japanese is very poor. You seem to feel you know more about these articles than lowly Wikipedia editors like me so please by all means, contribute.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped.../Visual_novels is all the people supporting the visual novel articles. Please pop in, say hi, and help out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WELCOME
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Last edited by jyuichi; 2007-09-09 at 20:51. Reason: wording a bit politer
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  #4  
Old 2007-09-09, 20:54
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The problem with the type 3 articles is that they're overrun with people who stick to their godly fansubs and demand sources for everything that their crappy fansubs didn't tell them. Sometimes they even argue that the show based on the game is actually the original work, and that the game should be treated as something extra. Why? It isn't available in English. Great arguement.

And get this- I actually contribute to articles! A LOT! Mostly type 2, but a bit of type 3, which is why I know all this!

Quote:
(almost always wrong, and sometimes plain absurd) assumptions
Add "utterly baseless" to the list.
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  #5  
Old 2007-09-09, 20:57
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And me, join that group? Come on, you can't even get the genre name right.
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Old 2007-09-10, 01:36
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I also like seeing every bishoujo game being referred to as a 'dating sim' on wikipedia. Funnily enough, I figured a dating sim would be.. I dunno, a dating simulator? Which is fine for the games that fit into that subset, but I don't see how Kana: Little Sister is a dating sim. I mean, honestly =p

EDIT: Although Wikipedia has admittedly gotten a lot better about that of late.
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Old 2007-09-10, 02:39
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I actually quite liked the name visual novel, although I "grew up" using erogame.
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Old 2007-09-10, 10:24
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ut...#Dori_and_Gura

o/
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Old 2007-09-10, 10:46
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In an ideal world you'd be able to improve the articles, but like mentioned... the idiocy on wikipedia makes it impossible for someone who doesn't spend their entire life on that thing.

Self-appointed owners of the article will just revert shit for tiny reasons, and it just turns into an edit war that anyone with intelligence (i.e. the person correcting the article) wouldn't want to waste their time with.

They refuse to accept Japanese material as source, since they can't verify your translation. Which leads to a vicious circle as I am sure you can imagine...


In the end my advice is to just not give a shit. Anyone who knows better can use the JP wikipedia. It's just a shame (or amusing depending on how you look at it) that a lot of people will go around believing these falsehoods.
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Old 2007-09-10, 11:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post

They refuse to accept Japanese material as source, since they can't verify your translation. Which leads to a vicious circle as I am sure you can imagine...
Hell, yeah. Then again, that's not just Wikipedia, and not just games.

Read Furumeta? There're people going around insisting that アラストル (note: Part of a series of names derived from demons and stuff) is "Astral". The reasons? There're crappy translations of some of the novels that say so.

They also think クリサリス is "Christmas".

o/
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Old 2007-09-11, 15:18
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Quote:
I also like seeing every bishoujo game being referred to as a 'dating sim' on wikipedia. Funnily enough, I figured a dating sim would be.. I dunno, a dating simulator? Which is fine for the games that fit into that subset, but I don't see how Kana: Little Sister is a dating sim. I mean, honestly =p
I fought long and hard for that terminology. "Dating sim" is a widely recognized English term. "Bishoujo game" and "ren'ai game" are bastard jargon terms used only within fandom that must not be allowed to subvert the legitimate and standard English phrase. Of course, I prefer "visual novel" to all of these.

And yes, I've encountered this problem too...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:To...ng_Conventions

Heavy the cross I bear.

Last edited by Shii; 2007-09-11 at 15:21.
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Old 2007-09-11, 15:48
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Well, as I see it, logically:

1) Visual novel is the MEDIUM. You click through text boxes, or pages of text, depending on whether it's the AVG kind or the NVL kind.
2) Dating sim is where you simulate dating! The Sims 2: Hot Date would probably come under this classification. Visual novel-type games (especially the ones with the stats) like True Love and Classmates probably would too.
3) Bishoujo games can be games with pretty girls, I guess. WAI WAI~
4) Ren'ai game.. well, honestly I have no idea WTF that is, but for now I'll use it to refer to visual novels written by non-Japanese people, silly as though that may seem.

So yeah, 'visual novel' would be the best term to use when talking about genre (e.g. first person shooter, real time strategy as being other genres). Dating sim works, but only if the game really is a dating sim.

ACTUALLY, here's a way better idea. Let's just start calling them all ANIME GAMES. I'm sure everyone would love that.

EDIT: also shii i was surprised to see "hi im blil hrsich adn im 9 yeasr old btu im smrat and i cn fix yor gmae" as the random text on your website one time. i guess you were in the distant past part of that community too? poor bhirsch3. may his memory live with us forever.

Last edited by Asceai; 2007-09-11 at 16:12.
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  #13  
Old 2007-09-11, 17:11
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恋愛ゲーム (ゲームジャンル)
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  #14  
Old 2007-09-11, 17:38
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-A renai game is a game genre. They feature love/romance

-Types include renai simulation game (things that have simulation stuff like Tokimemo) and renai adventure game (no simulation stuff)

-Novel games, also known as visual novels, are a type of adventure game. Normal adventure games typically have the text in a box at the bottom, novel games have the text on the whole screen.
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  #15  
Old 2007-09-15, 20:06
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I actually encountered this a little on Xuse's website (makers of Eien no Aseria), since they have they're games divided up into these genres on the site.(http://www.xuse.co.jp/index2.html)
A ren'ai game is really a sub-genre of bishoujo games. You can actually see this in some shops that have "bishoujo floors" containing nothing but these games.

a ren'ai game is a "romance" game, focusing on love, and relations, compared to some of the other sub-genres described below:

jyuun'ai game: "Pure love" game. This are fairly similar to ren'ai and often grouped together. Jyuun'ai is usually more innocent and pure than the standard ren'ai. If I had to wager, personally, I'd say Key's works tend to fall more under jyuun'ai.

ryoujyoku game: "Assault/Insult" games. ... Think, rape, molestation, etc. Not very pleasant, but quite prominent. Most likely what the average un-informed american thinks of when they hear Hentai game, if they're not completely ignorant of them.

choukyou game: "Training" or "Breaking" games. the word actually has connotations refering more to training animals, but its used in this case to refer to games for training sex slaves, and games similar to this. Again, Not very pleasant.

RPG game: The first, though not largest on the list of Xuse's offered genres. This refers obviously to bishoujo games where the RPG element is most prominent. These would be games like Eien no Aseria or Utawarerumono. Just because the bishoujo game is an RPG doesn't make it any less erotic, and thus why it's a sub-genre of bishoujo games.
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