gemot encubed  

Go Back   gemot encubed > Gemot > General Discussion

General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 2006-08-18, 00:35
Mihara Mihara is offline
Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 41
Default Followup

After some more memory-digging, I remembered one more choice-branching idea which I missed: Timed choices, which, upon waiting for choice expiration with no action selected, move the story into a different branch (or set a different flag). Was it used in anything but Sakura Taisen?

There's also some vague words I found on the net about "Love Hina Blessing Bell" being somehow special in this regard. Can anyone explain?
__________________
--- So you're like, nine hours fast?
--- Yes, I live in the future.
--- I doubt Russia is considered 'future'.
--- Maybe not the rest of Russia, but I certainly do.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 2006-08-18, 00:49
AstCd2 AstCd2 is offline
Addicted
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,077
Default Re: Followup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihara
After some more memory-digging, I remembered one more choice-branching idea which I missed: Timed choices, which, upon waiting for choice expiration with no action selected, move the story into a different branch (or set a different flag). Was it used in anything but Sakura Taisen?
Green Green had this for a small number of its choices, while School Days had it for all of them.
The former title was also one of the earliest games to use a movement map.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihara
There's also some vague words I found on the net about "Love Hina Blessing Bell" being somehow special in this regard. Can anyone explain?
It had timed choices too, although I don't think there was anything extraordinary about the way this was implemented.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 2006-08-18, 01:29
zalas zalas is offline
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: fushigi misuterii
Posts: 1,831
Send a message via ICQ to zalas
Default

While we're talking about visual novel evolution, when was the first time a game used the multi-branching idea to effectively convey pieces of a whole story, using each branch as a different viewpoint on the same story? I think Ever17 does this (though I haven't played it yet, waiting to buy a Japanese copy), and Baldr Force does this.
__________________
~Yoda is waiting in the air~ | HAVEN
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 2006-08-18, 02:11
AstCd2 AstCd2 is offline
Addicted
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,077
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zalas
While we're talking about visual novel evolution, when was the first time a game used the multi-branching idea to effectively convey pieces of a whole story, using each branch as a different viewpoint on the same story? I think Ever17 does this (though I haven't played it yet, waiting to buy a Japanese copy), and Baldr Force does this.
Multiple choice visual novels in themselves only go as far back as 1992-1993 (Doukyuusei, Tokimemo, etc.), so depending on how tightly you define the 'multi-scenarios providing the pieces for one underlying story' concept, I'd say Leaf's Kizuato (1996) is a good early example, if not the earliest game to do so.

An even earlier title that comes to mind is C's ware's Desire (1994), although that didn't really use multiple scenarios in the branching sense you describe.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 2006-08-18, 02:28
omgwtflolz
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Muv-Luv sort of does it.

You don't know that it does until you play Alternative, though.

Quote:
After some more memory-digging, I remembered one more choice-branching idea which I missed: Timed choices, which, upon waiting for choice expiration with no action selected, move the story into a different branch (or set a different flag). Was it used in anything but Sakura Taisen?
LikeLife _summer.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 2006-08-18, 08:16
Talbain's Avatar
Talbain Talbain is offline
Obsessive
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In a field, eating grass.
Posts: 209
Send a message via AIM to Talbain
Default

I hate to say this, and if it's already been said before then I'm just repeating; but visual novels are little more than glorified picture books.

Though, this doesn't make me stop loving them, it does make me pause for a moment before I think about how innovative it really is. When I already know that basically everything within any game is essentially based on some scripted idea, I can assume that it's already been done before. In the end, my belief is that visual novels are interesting because they can do a lot of different things - they're not as restricted because there's almost a suspension of disbelief built in; but it seems to me that they stick to a formula that was developed in their youth, and stuck to almost painfully now that they're showing signs of their age.
__________________
Runaway.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 2006-08-18, 08:26
Mihara Mihara is offline
Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 41
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talbain
I hate to say this, and if it's already been said before then I'm just repeating; but visual novels are little more than glorified picture books.
Indeed.
But I've seen weirdest things done with picture books, and they, too, are not without their innovations and changes in form and content. :) Most don't stick, but some do, and picture books evolve.
__________________
--- So you're like, nine hours fast?
--- Yes, I live in the future.
--- I doubt Russia is considered 'future'.
--- Maybe not the rest of Russia, but I certainly do.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 2006-08-18, 09:02
AstCd2 AstCd2 is offline
Addicted
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,077
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talbain
I hate to say this, and if it's already been said before then I'm just repeating; but visual novels are little more than glorified picture books.

...it seems to me that they stick to a formula that was developed in their youth, and stuck to almost painfully now that they're showing signs of their age.
You're absolutely right in that there's been little change in absolute terms in the visual novel genre, but when you consider each change in the context of what the end product is - a 'picture book' - one might argue that that's precisely what makes the changes so innovative. For example, animation wouldn't have had nearly the same impact if it was done in an action game, where the core concept involved a lot of movement.

In that relative sense, I think it's reasonable to say that they've had as sophisticated a history of development as any other genre, keeping in mind that games with more radical changes would cease to be classifiable as visual novels at all.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 2006-08-18, 13:40
rodan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Followup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihara
After some more memory-digging, I remembered one more choice-branching idea which I missed: Timed choices, which, upon waiting for choice expiration with no action selected, move the story into a different branch (or set a different flag). Was it used in anything but Sakura Taisen?

There's also some vague words I found on the net about "Love Hina Blessing Bell" being somehow special in this regard. Can anyone explain?
In Love Hina Advance, the worst possible choice was always put as the default answer, and depending on the... gravity of the question, you'd have a set time to select a different answer, and if you didn't press A before the timer ran out, you'd be forced to choose the answer highlighted. A sort of musical chairs, if you will.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 2006-08-19, 01:41
darklegion darklegion is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 12
Default

The lack of technical change in the visual novel industry is good because it forces game designers to spend there time and money on the important issues, such as the story, artwork and the characters.It also allows doujin developers to compete on near equal footing with the bigger developers which increases competition and allows for room for more original and/or also less financially viable games to be released.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 2006-08-19, 02:18
Mihara Mihara is offline
Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 41
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by darklegion
The lack of technical change in the visual novel industry is good because it forces game designers to spend there time and money on the important issues, such as the story, artwork and the characters.
Yes, because what you said is mostly true and because that's what people like the games' look for - hand-drawn artwork. They like the games for many other reasons, but the hand-drawn look is a major attractant.

At the same time, not quite. The story is written and is therefore developed entirely inside a person's head, and usually that's just one person, so basically you can't make that cheaper until you teach creative writing to computers. But there's things which could possibly let me do more as a writer when writing such a story, interact with the reader deeper - like, say, knowing that I can make a flag and base a story branch much later on it, or - just an idea off the top of my head - check for how quickly the player actually reads and use this as a chance to surprise him. Intercepting the moment when the player let the game run with no input for a few minutes and use this to do something sinister like move the story in a different direction entirely, for example.
That'd still be technical change, and yet it would not go against the conditions you gave. :)
__________________
--- So you're like, nine hours fast?
--- Yes, I live in the future.
--- I doubt Russia is considered 'future'.
--- Maybe not the rest of Russia, but I certainly do.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 2006-10-09, 14:38
Shii's Avatar
Shii Shii is offline
Obsessive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cloudy Water
Posts: 497
Send a message via ICQ to Shii
Default Re: Visual novels as a medium

Quote:
Originally Posted by This past August, yours truly
Harpers has a round-table article this month about using video games for a literary education, but none of the commentators could imagine the idea of a visual novel so they were slowly circling around it. It was kinda amusing to read actually.
I'm bumping this thread to announce that this month, The Atlantic has run an article about "what if a computer program combined the action and graphics of a video game with the emotional power of great art", and again slowly circled around the concept of a visual novel without quite reaching it. Teaser quote:

Quote:
"I think there's a real market for more character-rich, story-centered interactive experiences," Mateas added. "I think potentially it's a market that dwarfs the entire current video-game market. There is a huge untapped market for experiences that are not about action adventures, quests, killing monsters, and solving puzzles."
Googling the title of the article gave me an amusing research paper.

http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/cavazza02sex.html
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 2006-10-09, 15:50
infinity
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Visual novels as a medium

Just for the sake of arguing:

I'm not sure I quite see the visual novel as an interactive experience though. VNs are presented on a computer and are certainly story-centered. However, I don't think it's what they're getting at.

Interactive movies have appeared in Western markets before, so it isn't like developers haven't toyed around with passive multimedia experiences. Therefore, I think they're referring more to a combination of character richness and full-blown player interactivity (probably beyond today's CRPGs, which merely follow a limited number of pre-scripted plans and decision-making points -> that's really a glorified take on a passive storytelling form), which goes beyond the realm of visual novels.

Clearly, they view Facade as an interesting experiment on open-ended player-driven conversations (rather than presenting fixed decision points, the player must actively think of what to say next in order to direct the conservation toward a certain outcome). That kind of experience isn't quite as open as a StarCraft skirmish or even a game of Tetris, but it's still a more interactive approach toward presenting story/dialogue.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Visual Novels on a widescreen Billhead Technical Issues 7 2007-11-20 07:25
new to visual novels Noob General Discussion 6 2007-10-06 23:22
Dialects in visual novels DragonmasterX General Discussion 27 2006-11-20 13:05
Typing of Visual Novels DragonmasterX General Discussion 8 2006-10-20 09:52
Visual Novel With 100% Dialogue Are Visual "Novels" DragonmasterX General Discussion 12 2006-10-02 20:21


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.