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  #871  
Old 2009-07-05, 19:04
MattBaker MattBaker is offline
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One thing I learned about translating: exact translation means fail. A good example. Translation that makes sense really helps, see how NNL did with ef, they found English equivalents phrases to the original, instead of literally write down what the words mean.

I don't disagree that sometimes the title is best left untranslated though, Ubisoft already succeed at making Senko no Ronde looks (and sounds) like a cheap title.

Last edited by MattBaker; 2009-07-05 at 19:07.
  #872  
Old 2009-07-05, 19:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbsaffran View Post
Please reassure me. It is some kind of elaborate prank, right? You're just playing devil's advocate?
Nope.

Quote:
As for the titles you mentioned, the first one is tricky, indeed. I would probably make the title longer, along the lines of "The Chronicles of my Stay in Kagerô ~Town of Illusions~" otherwise the pun is lost. But longer titles are not really easier to remember.
The second one is very plain: The Natural History of Bengara.
Why are we arbitrarily not extending the translation treatment to the names of the places, though? I mean, the real answer is that it's because it sounds ridiculous. For Kagerou, you very much get the image of a town surrounded by thick mist, and that 'feeling' can't be carried across. Bengarachou Hakubutsushi becomes 'The Naturalis Historia of the Ochre-Red Town' or something. For the same reason we don't translate the names of people or the names of places, I don't really think game names should be translated either, except in the occasional case where the original material gives an English alternative - Tenshi no Inai 12gatsu, for example
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  #873  
Old 2009-07-05, 21:06
MattBaker MattBaker is offline
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And, here, we, go:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...554C9B3A0AA63A

Just watch, the videos pretty much speak for themselves.
  #874  
Old 2009-07-05, 21:40
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lol don't link that. Much of the shit he says is wrong and he singles out bad fansubs over good ones.

By the way, I appreciate your positive comments on NNL's ef localization, as I am the head editor for Miyako/Chihiro/Mizuki.
  #875  
Old 2009-07-05, 21:47
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you can maintain both names:
<English title>:<Japanese title>
When They Cry: Higurashi no Naku koro ni

those familiar with the Japanese name will be able to find it, those familiar with the English name will be able to find it.... those who are _NEW_ will be able to _UNDERSTAND_ the title and _REMEMBER_ it.

P.S. the English name can be a "made up" name that is equivalent to the Japanese name but more fitting to the English readers.

Last edited by Stranger; 2009-07-05 at 21:50.
  #876  
Old 2009-07-05, 23:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbsaffran View Post
Quote:
What's the point in replacing a title that most people know already with some random unofficial English language equivalent?
Please reassure me. It is some kind of elaborate prank, right? You're just playing devil's advocate?
On the contrary, he's absolutely correct. We don't go translating "Minority Report" to the Dutch "Minderheidsrapport" either, do we? That's not even done in Germany, where they dub everything AND add their own personal sub-title. It would end up like... I dunno, "Minority Rapport - Die Unfassbare Anschueldigung" or whatever, but still carry the original name. I don't intend to generalize, but I would call it arrogance if an American assumed that everything that isn't English should be translated to it.


(getting hopelessly off-topic here, btw)
  #877  
Old 2009-07-06, 00:22
MattBaker MattBaker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogy View Post
lol don't link that. Much of the shit he says is wrong and he singles out bad fansubs over good ones.

By the way, I appreciate your positive comments on NNL's ef localization, as I am the head editor for Miyako/Chihiro/Mizuki.
Hmm... I wonder if he was actually wrong. Being a Vietnamese translator myself, I applied his theory into Brass Restoration, replaced English puns with my own puns, hence my translation receive pretty favorable reactions. Looking back what I've done, I hardly recognized it was a Japanese game or English game anymore.

Well, it's worth mentioning TakaJun here. He did not translated any games, he completely localized it. He created his own English puns in Brass Restoration to make it equivalent to the original games. He was able to show us that Shiki & SHIKI read the same but write differently without even explaining the differences between 志貴 and 四�*�, simply put: the players don't need to know them to enjoy the game. His and NNL's localization styles are definitely worth learning.

On the matter about Higurashi, the name "When the cicadas cry" has been widely accepted as a alternate name for the game as I can see so far. They even parodied Navel's Soul Link as "When the Galaxy Angels cry" on 4chan. The name actually makes sense, as regular players don't have to wonder what higurashi means. So... if it ain't broken, don't fix it. I really envy how Square-Enix, Nintendo, Capcom, Atlus & Konami localized their games so well that we can temporarily forget that they are Japanese games while playing.

P/S: GipFace once posted the video on his blog back in 2008, but it was reset in 2009, it sure affected NNL's tranlation in some ways.

......Seriously getting off topic >_>

Last edited by MattBaker; 2009-07-06 at 02:05.
  #878  
Old 2009-07-06, 01:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBaker View Post
Well, it's worth mentioning TakaJun here. He did not translated any games, he completely localized it. He created his own English puns in Brass Restoration to make it equivalent to the original games. He was able to show us that Shiki & SHIKI read the same but write differently without even explaining the differences between 志貴 and 四�*�, simply put: the players don't need to know them to enjoy the game. His and NNL's localization styles are definitely worth learning.
I must say that I am one of those who really like this kind of localisation as well. Keeping to the source can be good too, but it's great when you can read through a game and just enjoy it without thinking of how it was originally written in another language, and how it probably sounded better that way - I felt Tsukihime worked really well in this regard.

I hope to be able to do that as well some day, when I improve my translation skills further.
  #879  
Old 2009-07-06, 02:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBaker View Post
One thing I learned about translating: exact translation means fail. A good example. .
Actually, I rather like that title. It captures pretty well in my opinion the silliness of the original. Unless you were somehow under the impression that the original title made a lot of sense or something...
  #880  
Old 2009-07-06, 03:37
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Longest title ever, though? Pfft. This is in an industry with games titled things like:
* そう、あたしたちはこんなにも理不尽な世界に生きているの�*らよ3 ※この世界で2の発売予定はありません。
* 水スペ 川野口ノブ探検隊 ~これが秘境�*! 人跡未踏! 立ちふさがる商店街!八鏡大�*�に�*された地球最大の謎を追え!!~
* 天然やわちち女神フ�*ーラ・甘エ�*新婚�*�作りライフ ~お姉さんの�*�宮に、好きな�*け注いでもいいのですわよ♪~

EDIT: Argh.. you get the idea, but I'm sick of this board mangling my kanji. WTF? Why does it do that?
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  #881  
Old 2009-07-06, 03:57
ImmLff ImmLff is offline
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Quote:
localized their games so well that we can temporarily forget that they are Japanese games while playing.
I for one really dislike this approach. When I read/play Japanese games I want to feel that they was made there.
Translating the word play, common words(Onee-san, Onii-san, itadakimasu, etc...), honorifics and other such staff lower the enjoyment of that game(also anime, manga, books) for me.
  #882  
Old 2009-07-06, 05:20
MattBaker MattBaker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chocorush View Post
Actually, I rather like that title. It captures pretty well in my opinion the silliness of the original. Unless you were somehow under the impression that the original title made a lot of sense or something...
White Princess the 2nd - Romantic Adventure in a Carefree School (I can only think of this)

It's not about translating, it's about making it sounds right. Everything works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmLff View Post
I for one really dislike this approach. When I read/play Japanese games I want to feel that they was made there.
Translating the word play, common words(Onee-san, Onii-san, itadakimasu, etc...), honorifics and other such staff lower the enjoyment of that game(also anime, manga, books) for me.
Honorifics & common words can be left untranslated if a Japanese character (or a character that is supposedly speaking Japanese, like Kate in Sketchbook) is using it, otherwise the English that we read should be as natural as possible. We want to hear Yukari calling Junpei Junpei-kun, or Fuuka calling Akihiko Akihiko-senpai but we definitely don't want to hear Kyrie (DMC4) calling Nero Nero-san or Nero-kun, don't we? Or Rinoa calling Squall Squall-kun? Or Mei Ling calling Solid Snake Snake-san? And definitely no Japanese honorifics (at all) in animes like Emma or Allison & Lillia or Monster (The only Japanese character in this anime supposedly never speaks Japanese because he only speaks with foreign people). It all depends on what are being translated.

And about the word plays, good translators don't translate word plays, they create 'em. Jokes that need to be explained are just... lame.

P/S: Just remembered, Saikano is full of Japanese characters, but Viz Media translated it perfectly without using any honorifics. And the manga is still great and enjoyable. That is what i call good translation.

Last edited by MattBaker; 2009-07-06 at 05:31.
  #883  
Old 2009-07-06, 06:25
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back to topic, I don't know if this was posted before or not but here it goes:

11eyes Game Gets TV Anime, Manga Adaptation Green-Lit
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...tion-green-lit

plus, Princess Lover have already started airing.
  #884  
Old 2009-07-06, 10:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBaker View Post
White Princess the 2nd - Romantic Adventure in a Carefree School (I can only think of this)
It's not about translating, it's about making it sounds right. Everything works.
The thing though, is that it is about translation. The japanese title had a specific tone to it that used a stupidly constructed sentence to convey its message. Cutting out all the words you felt were extraneous not only changes the meaning, but it changed the tone of the sentence into something completely different than what it was supposed to be.

By your logic, nobody should ever write intentionally bad sentences whether it is a translation or in the original language, which is just stupid. In this case, a direct translation loses very little of the original meaning, and does the title justice, while a sentence written so that it is easy for an elementary student to diagram captures pretty much none of the original meaning. Its just a title, but I personally find long sentences like that rather cute and find it a shame to just cut it off because someone thought "It needs to sound gramatically correct."

Last edited by chocorush; 2009-07-06 at 10:29.
  #885  
Old 2009-07-06, 13:07
ImmLff ImmLff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBaker View Post
It all depends on what are being translated.
You're right probably.. But I prefer literal translations nevertheless.

And to stay on topic: minori has added some new info on their "why we banned you" page (nothing important though).

Last edited by ImmLff; 2009-07-06 at 13:11.
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