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  #1  
Old 2009-03-20, 20:15
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Default Narcissu 3rd?

Alright, so I visited Stage Nana's website again:

http://stage-nana.sakura.ne.jp/

Narcissu 3rd? What's this about? A new Narcissu title? If so, that's pretty exciting! It says it's coming out in April? Will it be a free release?

Thanks. I'd love to learn more.
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  #2  
Old 2009-03-20, 20:28
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not free, check general news topic for more info
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  #3  
Old 2009-03-20, 23:05
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No need to check that topic. Actually if you read more carefully somewhere in that sites, it clearly states 1500 yen for that.
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  #4  
Old 2009-03-22, 07:14
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Who gives crap, by the time narcissu 2 english comes out, there will be probably Narcissu 10th out already....
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  #5  
Old 2009-03-22, 07:24
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Be thankful it's coming out at all Enerccio.

Mou! People saying crap like that pisses me off. >_< If you want it faster - go learn Japanese yourself and read it!

Even if it takes that long, I'm just happy someone is even BOTHERING to translate it.

And I hope Aigilis and Haeleth (forgive me if I misspelled names) will translate Narcissu 3, too, when it comes out. ^_^ They did such a great job on the first one.
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  #6  
Old 2009-03-22, 09:05
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They probably will never do it again, because it wasted too much of their time and nobody is really interested in the 3rd "part". I liked the original Narcissu though (and hated the unvoiced version - the brain mostly exploded at Haeleth's style of writing). :P
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  #7  
Old 2009-03-22, 10:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enerccio View Post
Who gives crap, by the time narcissu 2 english comes out, there will be probably Narcissu 10th out already....
Just because you can't read Japanese doesn't mean no one else can.
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  #8  
Old 2009-03-22, 11:35
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Ooo...
Anyone with proficiant Japanese willing to give is the D-low on this?
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  #9  
Old 2009-03-22, 11:56
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Don't take it wrong, I loved Narcissu (it was the first time I cried in a while back then).

But in hindsight it just pisses me off that the production team -- I mean the original Japanese ones, not the translators mind you -- used this strategy:

1.) Masquerade as a doujin group / amateur and release freeware onto the scene unawares
2.) Everyone is astounded and surprised at quality, word spreads like wildfire, consuming even the overseas market
3.) Release the second edition to the saga, now bring up the production quality to gorgeous levels. Release still free
4.) New fanboys lap it all up.
5.) Bring in more professional staff. Release the third edition in all its professional glory, there's no more masquerading as an indie, this is the tour-de-force of marketing tactics.
6.) Fanboys are suckered, even if it's an agreeable $15.
7.) PROFIT

In using this tactic, there is an unexpected result of collateral damage -- that of the freeware / doujin indie scene whose expectations for 'polish' or 'quality were unfairly increased by this creeping invasion into their territory.

I think it is actually beneficial to the English speaking world that the translation for Narcissu 2 was delayed -- perhaps the translators sensed this tactic all along and thus saved the English side from taking the bait hook line and sinker.
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  #10  
Old 2009-03-22, 12:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFool View Post
Don't take it wrong, I loved Narcissu (it was the first time I cried in a while back then).

But in hindsight it just pisses me off that the production team blablabla...
You think too much.
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  #11  
Old 2009-03-22, 12:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFool View Post
1.) Masquerade as a doujin group / amateur and release freeware onto the scene unawares
This never happened. Narcissu got attention because of who the author was. He wouldn't need to release something for free to attract plenty of eroge fans.

As for the whole standard raising thing, I can only think of the English language scene, where insani challenged amateur creators to match Stage-Nana or perish (in itself a jab at the unrefined quality of their works).
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  #12  
Old 2009-03-22, 15:24
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The following freeware doujin VNs are better than Narcissu:
- Bye
- Textbook of Evil
- True Remembrance

The thing is that, while Tomo Kataoka is a _famous_ scenario writer, he's not really that great a one. If you want to, on the English side, surpass Narcissu in terms of writing, story and production values, you most certainly can with a bit of time.

That said, DaFool is correct about stage-nana not being a real doujin circle - games by doujin circles don't have OP videos with songs by eufonius. But, seriously, it's not a baiting tactic at all - people know Kataoka, people know the staff involved on the projects, and they got the game _because_ of this. It'll be the same with Die Driette Welt. I'm getting that mostly because of the third scenario writer listed on the project.
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Last edited by Asceai; 2009-03-22 at 15:28.
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  #13  
Old 2009-03-22, 20:42
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I stand rather amazed at the, to put it lightly, invective pessimism, in this thread already. Yeah, it's not apparently going to be a free download. Oh no.

What's amusing is that DaFool implicated that stage-nana released 2 games for free as a publicity stunt to draw attention before 'making a profit at $15'... since the historical facts are rather backwards...

Stage-nana existed before Nekonekosoft, then grew in parallel with it, and with the 7 year success of NNS, Kataoka had plenty of time to gather deep industry contacts, as well as gather a significant fan base. Hell, even NNS's MMR blog entries mentioned Narci1 back when NNS was still alive in 2005. If he wanted to start charging, he could've done it then without a hitch, with the few thousand fans learning about it from there to begin with.

Next, what's it mean to be doujin anyways? The line between 'industry' and 'doujin' has blurred over the years any ways, especially in the realm of original self published works. Last year when that topic came up over drinks, Kataoka made it clear that whatever the various outside definitions are, he himself considers "doujin" works to be anything that's done specifically with the bottom line as the primary goal. It's fine to make money, or not, but doujin should be motivated first by something else, be it fame, status, art, expression, or whatever. If he's using the labels in a consistent manner, then for the moment let's assume those are his intentions.

I was discussing Narci with him once, and he had mentioned that the costs going into the project were as small as he could make it, but still not trivial. Seiyuu need to be paid, for agency reasons. However, through his personal friendships with them, they brought their rates down as far as possible for the project. The same goes for music houses like elements garden, and recording studios. If the costs of Narci3 are such that it's too much of a burden to pay out of pocket, what's wrong with a price tag? *shrug*

One thing is for certain, those reduced rates would be out the door if Narci3 were being set up as a commercial venture, and the price to break even on it would be much higher than 1500 yen at a consignment shop for however many thousand gets printed.

But anyways, what I really don't get is what this assertion that doujin groups can't have high production values. It's a free market, so anyone with a bucket of cash can hire who they want. The Maikaze thing, controversy and all, managed to get top tier seiyuu and animate a 30 minute touhou dvd. Pro seiyuu get writers and engineers to work at low cost for them to make their own doujin CDs that sell for 1-2k yen at comike. If anything, we're just seeing what someone can do with a bunch of connections in the right places.

And to end this, the best line of the day was the implication that I, (or I suppose Haeleth though I can't speak for him) somehow delayed Narci2 in some grand prescient attempt to shield the English community' from being baited. That's a good one. I think my opinions about the obligations I feel over translations abundantly clear, and 'for the audience' is like the last 5% of it, if at all.
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  #14  
Old 2009-03-22, 22:55
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I really appreciate everyone who's involved in translating the Narcissu series. Without the translation, I never would've known about this great title. Anyone who's serving the community for free should be praised. After all, time is precious. I read Side 2nd the day it came out, but when the translation's released, I'll definitely give it another read.

I reckon Narcissu's something that deserves to be paid for. So, I don't mind. Having said that, I wonder what the 3rd title will be as good, or better? I look forward to this.
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  #15  
Old 2009-03-22, 23:54
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:\ I lost interest reading half of that. This is what I can say from the perspective of someone whose read maybe a handful of VNs, has no Japanese language or economical knowledge, and very less about whose who in the world:

Is it so wrong for someone to want to get paid for having created something?

Be thankful that Narcissu 1 and 2 were free. I don't think $15 is such an extraordinary price. *rolls eyes* Not like someone's not eventually going to throw it up on megaupload anyone to please the random person. So, I really don't see what you have anything to complain about. Just shut up and don't worry about it. Fans that actually care will help support the creator so that more and even better games can be produced by them. It's not like writing a story is all that easy *is a writer herself* then there's the art... then there's the music (which seem like 3rd source parties). Then there's giving it webspace for download. $15... I think the fans are still getting the better share of the deal.

*Smiles* And, Agilis, please continue to just do your best. And please let Haeleth know that I am cheering for him, too.

LOL @ dsp's comment. It was kinda... interesting... to read in that style, but there were many elements that I felt were better translated. Plus, having both combinations and styles gave me a better interpretation about what the writer truly meant with the sentence. I couldn't tell you which I thought was better. I enjoyed voice more, not because it had anything to do with translation, but because I love Setsumi's voice.

Last edited by Maxine MagicFox; 2009-03-23 at 00:19.
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