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General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

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Old 2007-10-04, 07:19
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Default Canvas 2 Translation

Greetings, I've been a fellow fan of visual novels and eroge for a few years now. I was pretty excited when Tsukihime and the first route of FSN was localized into English. Since then, I've been checking daily for more updates on anything that's been close to release. Although there are quite a few of them in the editing phase, I can't seem to get my fill for the time being.

I'm also trying to learn Japanese (Yeah, just like most other people it seems). I also find that people whom I know or stories that I read about have people who start out learning Japanese through motivation that they'll be able to play more games, watch raws, basically have a whole lot more options open to them. And then sadly after they actually gain enough knowledge to somewhat understand it on a basic level, that passion they previously had just dwindles down and it becomes a side hobby to them. Suppose that doesn't apply to everyone, but it seems to happen often.

So anyhow, on to the topic I was getting at. I'm currently translating Canvas2 ~茜色のパレット~ for the PC, and was wondering if anybody would be interested in helping me make a patch in the future. Of course, Canvas 2 is quite a long game, but the OP gives me enough motivation to see through it. I'm actually playing through it and translating as I go along, and so far I have about 3 days (In the game) worth of text translated, which is roughly how long that short translated Saya no Uta script is.

I did try looking into the kind of things that are needed in order to hack a game and repackage it with the translation, and unfortunately that just led to me thinking that it'll take forever for me to learn anything useful and apply that knowledge to what I need it to do. Well, here's a photoshopped image of a pillow hugging Elise that I made after being frustrated at how I can't grasp the use of hex editors.



So ah, I estimate that it'll be another month or two before I complete a route. The first route to be done will be Kana Hagino, followed by whichever girl I find to be more moe during my trip through Kana's route. That'll be all.
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Old 2007-10-04, 07:31
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You mentioned something about wanting to "repackage it [Canvas 2, I assume] with the translation." Maybe I misunderstood your statement, but that doesn't sound like a good idea. It would probably be a better idea to create a translation patch which requires the original game CD/DVD-ROM.
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Old 2007-10-04, 08:04
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Well, I probably worded it wrong. I don't really know much about patches or what not, so whatever works. I just do the translating :P
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Old 2007-10-04, 10:17
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Well, considering your engine hacking skills, it's unavoidable (I'm just a translation-only blockhead too) but if you plan on going all the way with the project, I'd highly recommend that you find someone to help you with script dumps. (you'll need the other tools as well, eventually, but script takes longest to translate anyways while they work on other things).

The problem with translating via playing is that you're never quite sure if you caught everything, especially if there's lots of branches, hidden flags, and god knows what. This is fine if you're doing some kind of translation guide, synopsis, or whatever. But for a full patch, you're going to go utterly insane remembering what block of text correlates to what piece of script later on.

There's a number of people who do amazing things with reverse engineering around, so asking for them directly for the tools you need instead of a vague 'can someone help me make a patch" will be more effective. Come to think Canvas2 is from a company that's popular enough that some tools probably exist...

Oh, and probably it'd be better if you decided to fully commit to this project after you've cleared the game. Assuming you don't wind up disliking 70% of the game (there are plenty of games where I like 1-2 heroines, out of 5), it's good for you anyways. At the least, knowledge of how the whole story unfolds is a BIG help in how you'll choose your words and style all along the script. You can't foreshadow what you don't see coming, can't use a consistent line for a recurring phrase, etc.

You can take notes and stuff along the way, but spending too much effort on every line will probably be counter-productive since you'll come back and cross out a much of it when you know the whole story more.
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  #5  
Old 2007-10-04, 10:26
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can't use a consistent line for a recurring phrase

Like describing people with Japanese characters such as 大 and へ... ~_~
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Old 2007-10-04, 11:11
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Yeah, I probably will go all the way eventually but for right now, I'm just focusing on one route. Of course, people usually won't lend a helping hand until there's a good amount of material already done and I understand that. The problem with just translating from the script for me is that I tend to want to actually experience the story myself with the voice, CG, and all that as it helps in translating somewhat if you know the mood.

As for catching everything in all the branches, that can come later. Most people I know usually use a walk through to play through visual novels to avoid getting a dead end (Unless it's on purpose), so it should be ok for now.

I suppose I'm just trying to generate some sort of interest for now. Patch or not, I'm just announcing that I'm going to go through Canvas 2 while translating it at the moment and maybe in the future a patch could be possible.
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Old 2007-10-04, 11:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edger View Post
The problem with just translating from the script for me is that I tend to want to actually experience the story myself with the voice, CG, and all that as it helps in translating somewhat if you know the mood.
Translating while referencing against the voice acting can be very important, for example, the text says one thing normally, but the voice clip places emphasis around certain words. Ideally, you'd want to work in some kind of that emphasis, either in time, so that it's in about the same local (towards the front, middle, end etc), or with wording to highlight what's being emphasized. Is this required? Probably not. It's not even possible sometimes without looking stupid, but, for what it's worth, it's nice.

Maybe it's because I tend to have a good memory for audio, that I can hold an image of the scene in my head while working from the script, even if I don't remember the exact details.

Either way, I'm just saying that there's a significant difference between translating something you've read through, and something you're doing cold.
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Old 2007-10-04, 12:13
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Just wondering is it the original pc version of canvas2 or the dvd version with the 2 new characters from ps2 version?
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Old 2007-10-04, 12:19
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Are you planning to do the original or the DVD version with Tomiko and Mami?

And I agree with the idea of completing the game first then translating it. There are nuances in meaning that you don't notice in a dialogue until you've grasped the entire story. If you plan on going through the entire path again, then it should be fine, but if you intend on utilizing a one pass, it might be better to do so after you've had experience with the scenario.
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Old 2007-10-04, 12:33
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I'm doing the original CD version for now.

As for the nuances and things that I don't know about yet, I do intend to go back and edit it after I complete a route. I mean, it's not going to have horrible grammar or anything like that.

Unless you guys are insinuating that I need to "understand" the character themselves and give them more feeling through a certain style that suits only them by playing through the entire game first so that I can convey their characters more accurately in English. That is indeed hard to do the first time through, and I personally don't think that it's possible to completely do that in English as compared to the original script. That's why people should just listen to the voices whenever possible :P

But yeah, I do intend to go back and edit quite a bit afterwards.
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Old 2007-10-04, 17:23
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Canvas 2 is well known for its nice OP and graphic. So it's kinda different to those games that were praised for their good writing. Hidden flags, recurring phrases, I know they happen a lot with Tomo Kataoka's writing, but I doubt that apply to canvas 2 as well. There will be some, but I think it will be sufficient to go back and edit when you notice them afterwards.
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Old 2007-10-04, 18:52
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haha, ahh, recrruing phrases, yea, those can happen a lot. just to name a few from comipa that I've found amusing: まい同志、まいえたあなるふれいんど、温泉パンダ、the list would actually go on pretty long, lol.
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Old 2007-10-04, 19:49
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Recurring phrases? Onsen panda? I'm lost.

I have ran into some recurring words, but not phrases I don't think. I would think that it's pretty easy to replace a recurring phrase after going through it once.

That being said, I'm close to Day 4 now. Kana Hagino is addicting I have to say.
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Old 2007-10-07, 21:31
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Hmm... if I recall Onsen Panda is a term from Comic Party (comipa) and is what Eimi calls Yuu because she's from Osaka <shrug>. I don't really follow what the importance is in paying too much attention in recurring phrases, unless there are just some really significant foreshadowing going on - which you will know after playing through. I think maybe the point is to better understand the nuances of a particular character?

Sure, I also agree to play through each path so you know how different plots weave together and understand things in a better context.

Last edited by Wererat42; 2007-10-07 at 21:34.
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  #15  
Old 2007-10-07, 22:20
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One of the things to be careful of with recurring phrases is to recognize them as such and translate them the same way each time. Otherwise, the repetition aspect of the idea would be lost.
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