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General Discussion Theres a Clannad of AIR-headed Kanon fodder being shot by the Little Busters After Tomoyo on a Planet-arian.

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  #16  
Old 2009-01-25, 11:54
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as i sayed, why games with just sex? if you changed that everything would be different, and i think that $1000 to complete an game is way too excessive and what genres can you work with? just VN and AVG? or RPG, Simulation and others may work too?

Last edited by GatoNegro; 2009-01-25 at 12:09.
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  #17  
Old 2009-01-25, 13:05
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Indeed and I can understand that considering this site caters to almost the opposite kind of audience. I'm not really sure that this should have even been posted here as it's just bound to draw controversy and disgust.



As Unregistered linked to, there's already been $200 proposed to translate MinDeadBlood.

As much as I love Asagi, I've actually been wanting to break out of the mold of the more porn-centric H-games and try something more popular and story-focused while still maintaining the dark theme.
To the dissenters: If you don't like porn-centric titles don't play them, and if you don't like dark games don't play them: problem solved. I personally have nothing against them but am unlikely to donate towards their translation. Translating them doesn't hurt anyone.

To me the issue seems to be is it appropriate to be paid for making illegal patches? I'm not sure quite where I stand on this.... has anyone attempted to contact the publish and find out what they think of patches (applied to legal purchased copies)?
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Last edited by jyuichi; 2009-01-25 at 13:05. Reason: clarifying audience
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  #18  
Old 2009-01-25, 13:06
Nephrinn Nephrinn is offline
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as i sayed, why games with just sex? if you changed that everything would be different, and i think that $1000 to complete an game is way too excessive and what genres can you work with? just VN and AVG? or RPG, Simulation and others may work too?
The games I mentioned (Gore Screaming Show, MinDeadBlood, Dies Irae) aren't just sex and I'm willing to translate them or any other dark-themed H-games provided I have the tools necessary to translate them.

Non-traditional H-games aren't usually an option because they require custom designed tools to extract and repack the data. It's possible I might be able to hire a programmer to tackle something like that in the future, but for now I'd like to stick to easier tasks at hand.

And H-manga translators charge about $1.50 per page and most normal sized H-mangas go for well beyond $100 alone to translate. H-mangas also only take a few days at best to translate, while H-games take months of serious work. Based on that, $1000 is being overly generous.

That said, I'm currently weighing the interest and adjusting rates as need be.
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  #19  
Old 2009-01-25, 13:18
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To me the issue seems to be is it appropriate to be paid for making illegal patches? I'm not sure quite where I stand on this.... has anyone attempted to contact the publish and find out what they think of patches (applied to legal purchased copies)?
Yes. A friend of mine (who is about to finish translating Lilia, a Lilith game) contacted Lilith soft about his translation work he was doing on their games and any possibility of having them buy the translations off him, but, not only did they promptly refuse him, but they told him not to translate any of their games (I think they told him it was illegal) and that *they* were already in the process of translating their games. Bear in mind that this happened over a year ago.
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  #20  
Old 2009-01-25, 16:30
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$1000 is not 'way too excessive' - it depends on the game, really, but for the most part it won't reflect the amount of work involved - if Nephrinn was charging based on that, a good-sized VN would take several times that.
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  #21  
Old 2009-01-25, 17:18
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Well, prices are negotiable. All you really need to do is talk with Nephrin about it and you can probably work out a price that's fair to both of you. The guy who requested Elf Princess Nina was able to negotiate a price drop.
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  #22  
Old 2009-01-25, 17:40
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Originally Posted by Nephrinn View Post
Yes. A friend of mine (who is about to finish translating Lilia, a Lilith game) contacted Lilith soft about his translation work he was doing on their games and any possibility of having them buy the translations off him, but, not only did they promptly refuse him, but they told him not to translate any of their games (I think they told him it was illegal) and that *they* were already in the process of translating their games. Bear in mind that this happened over a year ago.
...wait, so you know they disallow translated patches, but you're doing them anyway? AND charging for them? That sort of puts it in a different light to me, unless I'm somehow misunderstanding you.
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  #23  
Old 2009-01-25, 19:03
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...wait, so you know they disallow translated patches, but you're doing them anyway? AND charging for them? That sort of puts it in a different light to me, unless I'm somehow misunderstanding you.
Doing translation patches anyway? Yes. Charging for said translation patches? No. The donations/charges are to be paid as some sort of incentive for translating a game, and in return those who do wish to pay for the translation have some choice over what they want to get translated. So the games that get chosen for this system may not necessarily be Lilith games. The translation patches themselves will be free for the general public when they're released.
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  #24  
Old 2009-01-25, 19:11
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...I'm not talking about games in general; I'm talking about the conscious decision to translate games by a group that specifically refused to give permission to do so. And call it "charging" or "donation" or whatever you prefer, but it still equates to taking money for it if it ends up being a Lilith game that's chosen. Releasing them to the public for free doesn't have anything to do with my objection; it's the process that does.

(Apologies if I'm slightly incoherent right now; my brain's rather fuzzy at the moment from various combined factors. I kan talk gudd, I sware.)
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  #25  
Old 2009-01-25, 19:28
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Originally Posted by Starchanchan View Post
...I'm not talking about games in general; I'm talking about the conscious decision to translate games by a group that specifically refused to give permission to do so. And call it "charging" or "donation" or whatever you prefer, but it still equates to taking money for it if it ends up being a Lilith game that's chosen. Releasing them to the public for free doesn't have anything to do with my objection; it's the process that does.

(Apologies if I'm slightly incoherent right now; my brain's rather fuzzy at the moment from various combined factors. I kan talk gudd, I sware.)
Mm... perfectly acceptable to me. I don't feel any particular way about this, I just wanted to clarify that the translation patches themselves are free. From your initial post here, it sounded like you thought people had to pay for the translation patches.
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  #26  
Old 2009-01-25, 22:34
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Whether they're free after the fact doesn't change that money was given for the patch to be 'made available' (in this case, "made" XD).
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  #27  
Old 2009-01-25, 23:02
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No, I'm fully aware the released patches themselves will be free. I just find it highly offensive to the creators that he's making patches, whether any money is involved or not, when they've specifically asked that it NOT be done. I mean, in addition to VNs, I do scanlations, which is a bit different in terms of asking permission, but if I were ever approached by a doujinka and asked to remove a work of theirs, I'd do so without hesitation. But to knowingly translate and patch something when they've asked for it not to be done at all... well, that's kind of a slap in the face to them in my eyes.
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  #28  
Old 2009-01-25, 23:56
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I would agree with Star. Doing something you've been literally told not to do is both disrespectful and morally questionable, but knowing that translations are already in the making it becomes even illogical to work on a patch by yourself. After all, for the time being there's little one can do but trust the authors' words on it.

I can understand how it can be tempting to work on a game you really like, even if you've been told not to, but working on a game that someone else likes, that should eventually get its own official translation, that is just hurting the industry. Nothing 'fan' in such a translation, if you ask me.


On the more general topic at hand, I do not believe asking money to translate someone else's work is right. If we had put up a donation button on mirrormoon.org two years ago, the odds are very much in favour of us having been RICH by now. Even up to the point of being able to license our own games. The reason why we will never choose to accept sponsoring is simply that these games do not belong to us. It does not matter what you will be using the money for, it's just not right to make any kind of money with someone else's work.
I think breaking copyrights isn't the same as stealing, as long as the breaker would never have bought the material anyway, but the moment someone starts making money off it it DOES become stealing. That money never belonged to you. It belongs to the authors and publishers.


Long story short, if you want to make money translating these games... Well, maybe MangaGamer is hiring?
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  #29  
Old 2009-01-26, 00:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephrinn View Post
Yes. A friend of mine (who is about to finish translating Lilia, a Lilith game) contacted Lilith soft about his translation work he was doing on their games and any possibility of having them buy the translations off him, but, not only did they promptly refuse him, but they told him not to translate any of their games (I think they told him it was illegal) and that *they* were already in the process of translating their games. Bear in mind that this happened over a year ago.
Other than this possible response, usually the best response you can possibly get from a game creation company is an appreciation from the company staff for the earnestness and work involved. It would be very hard for a company to simply come out and declare that they support a fan translation.
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  #30  
Old 2009-01-26, 01:53
Nephrinn Nephrinn is offline
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Other than this possible response, usually the best response you can possibly get from a game creation company is an appreciation from the company staff for the earnestness and work involved. It would be very hard for a company to simply come out and declare that they support a fan translation.
Yes, and I got the impression that they were not at all being appreciative and I found it preposterous that they were treating him like a criminal for translating their games. We also agreed that they were bluffing on translating their own games and more than likely said it as a way to get the guy to stop. It was by no means a polite declination.

That attitude is what drove me (and probably him) forward in continuing to translate their games. Like it or not, I wouldn't be surprised if most companies don't like anyone translating their games because they consider it a potential moneymaker if and when it ever gets licensed. And we all know the utter hell it takes to get anything licensed.

That said, if a company came to me and asked me politely not to translate their stuff, I would naturally oblige. Bullying me to stop, however, won't fly.
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