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AstCd2
2005-03-19, 22:35
Seeing as how we're short on Key news to discuss, why don't we play a little game?

I'm sure most of you have played 20 questions before, but I'll post the rules for the BBS version played over on Hakagi for those who haven't.

Original Thread:
http://pie.bbspink.com/test/read.cgi/leaf/1107615225/
______________________________________________________________________

Rules

1. The question setter comes up with a term (or phrase) specifically associated with Key (person, phenomena, song, etc).
The answer is given in tripcode form when the question is set so that the other players can check it afterwards.
It'd be a good idea to limit words to Kanon or Air for now. Nothing too obscure, please.

2. The other players ask a total of 20 Yes/No questions
Questions should be aimed at determining what the word is (eg. Is it a physical object? Is it a person?). Discussion of theories is encouraged amongst players. So that the question setter doesn't mistake discussion for a question, please phrase them in the form "Question: Is it a physical object?".

3. The question setter keeps a list of responses, giving out occasional hints.

4. After 20 questions have been asked, the players must decide on a final answer
The final answer should be phrased as "Final Answer: Is it (answer)?"

5. Have fun!

Appendix
The question setter should avoid answering misleading or subjective questions like "Is it tasty?".
______________________________________________________________________

The tripcode for the first question is
HHPDNn59fk

Let the questions begin! =P

zalas
2005-03-20, 00:23
Is it a person?

AstCd2
2005-03-20, 00:25
Is it a person?


No.

1. Is it a Person? --- No

New
2005-03-20, 00:53
Does the word/phrase appear in Kanon?

AstCd2
2005-03-20, 00:55
Does the word/phrase appear in Kanon?

No.

1. Is it a Person? --- No
2. Does the word/phrase appear in Kanon? --- No

2005-03-20, 00:58
is it alive?

AstCd2
2005-03-20, 00:59
is it alive?

No.

1. Is it a Person? --- No
2. Does the word/phrase appear in Kanon? --- No
3. Is it alive? --- No

Keisuke
2005-03-20, 01:00
That was me btw. -_-

Can anyone eat it?

AstCd2
2005-03-20, 01:02
Can anyone eat it?

...I'll avoid this one. It might be considered ambiguous.

Asked:
1. Is it a Person? --- No
2. Does the word/phrase appear in Kanon? --- No
3. Is it alive? --- No

Avoided:
Can anyone eat it?

New
2005-03-20, 01:15
Is it a liquid?

AstCd2
2005-03-20, 01:16
Is it a liquid?

Yes.
Did I make this too easy? ^^;;

Asked:
1. Is it a Person? --- No
2. Does the word/phrase appear in Kanon? --- No
3. Is it alive? --- No
4. Is it a liquid? --- Yes

Avoided:
Can anyone eat it?

New
2005-03-20, 01:33
Is it that juice that Yukito force-fed Misuzu?
EDIT: OK, this is a little unclear. Sometime in the game, Misuzu accedentially buys a undrinkable juice, and Yukito makes Misuzu drink it. It's either this or her peach juice or Hanako's beer.

AstCd2
2005-03-20, 01:42
Correct!

The tripcode was #peachjuice

If no one has the next question and tripcode (or alternative encoded answer) up in the next hour, I'll put up another (much harder) question.

Hope you had fun! =P

Regarding Tripcodes
Tripcodes can be tested on 2ch or any other board that runs a similar script in the format of "#answer".

AstCd2
2005-03-20, 02:43
The tripcode for the second question is
pZG1wBDFPU

Ask away.

Haeleth
2005-03-20, 03:26
*resists temptation to break out tripcode cracker*

Question: Is it bigger than a breadbox? (Whatever a breadbox is.)

Is it a liquid?
Yes.
Are you sure? :p

AstCd2
2005-03-20, 03:29
*resists temptation to break out tripcode cracker*

Question: Is it bigger than a breadbox? (Whatever a breadbox is.)


I've definitely seen bigger breadboxes, so 'No'.


Is it a liquid?
Yes.
Are you sure? :p

まぁ…一応(自称)ジュースですし ^^;;

1. Is it bigger than a breadbox? --- No

Spiritsnare
2005-03-20, 08:10
Is this something from Kanon?

Stranger
2005-03-20, 08:53
is it alive?

Spiritsnare
2005-03-20, 09:18
Is it sexually appealing?

::wastes question::

Misu
2005-03-20, 11:56
is it a person?

New
2005-03-20, 11:57
Uh, ignore them. It's not bigger then a breadbox, guys.

AstCd2
2005-03-20, 14:32
Is this something from Kanon?

Yes.

is it a person?

I'll let you get away with this one this time =P

Is it sexually appealing?

No.

Is it alive?

No.

1. Is it bigger than a breadbox? --- No
2. Is it sexually appealing? --- No
3. Is it alive? --- No
4. Is this something from Kanon? --- Yes

emperor
2005-03-20, 14:40
Question: Is it some kind of clock?

K
2005-03-20, 14:41
Is it shaped like an animal?

procyon
2005-03-20, 16:19
Is it some sort of stationary/thing that could be bought in a bookstore?

adun50
2005-03-20, 19:14
is it something edible?

AstCd2
2005-03-20, 20:52
Question: Is it some kind of clock?

No.

Is it shaped like an animal?

Yes.

Is it some sort of stationary/thing that could be bought in a bookstore?

No.

is it something edible?

I'm going to treat this as 'Is it food?' and say 'No'.


1. Is it bigger than a breadbox? --- No
2. Is it sexually appealing? --- No
3. Is it alive? --- No
4. Is this something from Kanon? --- Yes
5. Is it some kind of clock? --- No
6. Is it shaped like an animal? --- Yes
7. Is it some sort of stationary/thing that could be bought in a bookstore? --- No
8. Is it something edible? --- No

I was beginning to think that I'd have to give a hint, but you're well on your way to figuring this one out... or are you?
Off the top of my head, I can think of at least three things that fit the description so far =P

New
2005-03-20, 20:59
Is it keropeii?

AstCd2
2005-03-20, 21:01
Is it keropeii?

No.


1. Is it bigger than a breadbox? --- No
2. Is it sexually appealing? --- No
3. Is it alive? --- No
4. Is this something from Kanon? --- Yes
5. Is it some kind of clock? --- No
6. Is it shaped like an animal? --- Yes
7. Is it some sort of stationary/thing that could be bought in a bookstore? --- No
8. Is it something edible? --- No
9. Is it keropeii? --- No

New
2005-03-20, 21:17
Can it be found in Nayuki's room?

AstCd2
2005-03-20, 21:19
Can it be found in Nayuki's room?

No.



1. Is it bigger than a breadbox? --- No
2. Is it sexually appealing? --- No
3. Is it alive? --- No
4. Is this something from Kanon? --- Yes
5. Is it some kind of clock? --- No
6. Is it shaped like an animal? --- Yes
7. Is it some sort of stationary/thing that could be bought in a bookstore? --- No
8. Is it something edible? --- No
9. Is it keropeii? --- No
10. Can it be found in Nayuki's room? --- No

New
2005-03-20, 22:49
Can it be found in the Minase Household?

AstCd2
2005-03-20, 23:01
Can it be found in the Minase Household?

No.

1. Is it bigger than a breadbox? --- No
2. Is it sexually appealing? --- No
3. Is it alive? --- No
4. Is this something from Kanon? --- Yes
5. Is it some kind of clock? --- No
6. Is it shaped like an animal? --- Yes
7. Is it some sort of stationary/thing that could be bought in a bookstore? --- No
8. Is it something edible? --- No
9. Is it keropeii? --- No
10. Can it be found in Nayuki's room? --- No
11. Can it be found in the Minase Household? --- No

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-20, 23:13
Is it the stuffed anteater Sayuri and Yuuichi bought?

Of course, depending on the size of your breadbox, question #1 could have made this a moot point...

AstCd2
2005-03-20, 23:49
Is it the stuffed anteater Sayuri and Yuuichi bought?

Of course, depending on the size of your breadbox, question #1 could have made this a moot point...

An excellent guess, but 'No'.

1. Is it bigger than a breadbox? --- No
2. Is it sexually appealing? --- No
3. Is it alive? --- No
4. Is this something from Kanon? --- Yes
5. Is it some kind of clock? --- No
6. Is it shaped like an animal? --- Yes
7. Is it some sort of stationary/thing that could be bought in a bookstore? --- No
8. Is it something edible? --- No
9. Is it keropeii? --- No
10. Can it be found in Nayuki's room? --- No
11. Can it be found in the Minase Household? --- No
12. Is it the stuffed anteater Sayuri and Yuuichi bought? --- No

adun50
2005-03-21, 00:03
is it cold?

AstCd2
2005-03-21, 00:04
is it cold?

Yes.

1. Is it bigger than a breadbox? --- No
2. Is it sexually appealing? --- No
3. Is it alive? --- No
4. Is this something from Kanon? --- Yes
5. Is it some kind of clock? --- No
6. Is it shaped like an animal? --- Yes
7. Is it some sort of stationary/thing that could be bought in a bookstore? --- No
8. Is it something edible? --- No
9. Is it keropeii? --- No
10. Can it be found in Nayuki's room? --- No
11. Can it be found in the Minase Household? --- No
12. Is it the stuffed anteater Sayuri and Yuuichi bought? --- No
13. Is it cold? --- Yes

adun50
2005-03-21, 00:08
is it the snow rabbit that Nayuki made for Yuuichi when they were kids?

AstCd2
2005-03-21, 00:10
is it the snow rabbit that Nayuki made for Yuuichi when they were kids?

Well done!

The tripcode was #snowrabbit.

If someone else hasn't put a question up by the time I finish my uni work tonight, I'll put up another one.

You guys are surprisingly good at this game, so I'll have to really push the envelope on this one =P

Haeleth
2005-03-21, 02:25
I have one for you all!

MD5 sum of the answer (since I can't be bothered to go all the way to 2ch just to find the tripcode) is 5f788ff3b75e27aaafb1795475a385a2.

Ask away.

Keisuke
2005-03-21, 02:50
Wow.....

Is it related to AIR?

Haeleth
2005-03-21, 03:39
Question 1 (Keisuke): Is it related to AIR?

No.

adun50
2005-03-21, 03:41
is it related to Kanon?

AstCd2
2005-03-21, 03:51
is it related to Kanon?
Aren't we limiting the answers to just Kanon and Air?

Question: Is it smaller than a microwave?
(A much more standard unit than a breadbox =P)

By the way, I'm familiar with md5 for files, but how does one generate an md5 sum for a single phrase?

Haeleth
2005-03-21, 04:05
Instead of using up a question answering adun50's, I'll confirm that I did limit myself to Kanon and AIR in my choice.

I'm familiar with md5 for files, but how does one generate an md5 sum for a single phrase?
Like this:

<tt>haeleth@cynewulf /c/key/rltestbed
$ echo -n "your phrase here" | md5sum
2e579a7677a3dc38d20d550868fb3575 *-</tt>

Is it smaller than a microwave?
Yes.

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-21, 04:10
Is it composed of organic matter?

AstCd2
2005-03-21, 04:13
haeleth@cynewulf /c/key/rltestbed
$ echo -n "your phrase here" | md5sum
2e579a7677a3dc38d20d550868fb3575 *-


Uwah...

An alternative to Haeleth's deviously obscure method of hashing for future question setters:

http://bfl.rctek.com/tools/?tool=hasher

Haeleth
2005-03-21, 04:35
Bah, some people just can't appreciate the elegance of a simple pipe. :p

Is it composed of organic matter?
Yes.

AstCd2
2005-03-21, 04:38
Question: Does it belong to a category of objects generally considered to be food?
[Excludes Animals, includes Jam]

Haeleth
2005-03-21, 06:17
Question: Does it belong to a category of objects generally considered to be food?
No.

Misu
2005-03-21, 07:06
Does it have four legs?

Haeleth
2005-03-21, 07:16
Does it have four legs?
No.

New
2005-03-21, 07:18
Can it be found in the Minase Household?

Slipgate
2005-03-21, 08:29
Is it a doll of some sort?

Slipgate

Haeleth
2005-03-21, 08:39
New: Assuming we're limiting ourselves to events in the game, then no. (We'd better limit ourselves that way. Just about everything imaginable ends up at the Minases' if you read enough dojinshi...)

Slipgate: No.

Don't forget, you're allowed to discuss this as well as asking questions. I'll drop a hint if we reach the tenth question and nobody's getting warm...

Misu
2005-03-21, 13:17
Asks three blank questions to fill up to 10 >...<

Well, I'm out of ideas and questions to ask o-o...

ChronoReverse
2005-03-21, 13:57
Is a plant of some sort?

Haeleth
2005-03-21, 14:23
Is a plant of some sort?
Nope.

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-21, 15:06
In the context of what we see in the game, can it be found in the marketplace?
(i.e. in a real marketplace, you could probably find an old boot if you looked hard enough, but I'm referring to things we actually are told about.)

emperor
2005-03-21, 15:24
Don't forget, you're allowed to discuss this as well as asking questions. I'll drop a hint if we reach the tenth question and nobody's getting warm...
How can people forget what they never knew? The fact that only you, AstCd2 and me used the "Question:" format shows that at this part of the rules was not read by most of the people participating.

Haeleth
2005-03-21, 16:20
In the context of what we see in the game, can it be found in the marketplace?
Do you think you could clarify the question, please? I'm not sure whether you mean "do we literally see it in a store in the game", "is it something or someone that might typically be seen in a physical marketplace", or "is it something a character might sell or purchase". The answer is not necessarily the same for all those options.

procyon
2005-03-21, 16:34
Is it alive?

If no, anything plastic is 'composed of organic matter'...

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-21, 16:39
Do you think you could clarify the question, please?
Ah, sorry, I was trying to be clear but I suppose I failed. >_<

Question: Is it something that can be found in the marketplace scenes of Kanon?
I guess this would be closest to your first question, "Do we literally see it in a store (or the street outside) during the game?" Sorry for the confusion...

And I suppose I should have clairified my previous question: Organic matter, in its most familiar context, would be something relating to or derived from living organisims. Hence things like people, vegetables, and paper are organic, while things like metal, stone, and plastic are inorganic (plastic even being synthetic.) I hope that clears up any confusion... :(

Haeleth
2005-03-21, 16:53
Ah, sorry, I was trying to be clear but I suppose I failed. >_<
English is one of those funny languages that can get less clear the more precise you are... ;)

And I suppose I should have clairified my previous question...
<Sayuri>Ahaha~, too late~!</Sayuri>

Question: Is it something that can be found in the marketplace scenes of Kanon?
Difficult to answer. I'll say "No", although there is a little room for someone to nitpick that when the answer is revealed... -_-;

Is it alive?
No.

1. Related to AIR: No.
2. Smaller than a microwave: Yes.
3. Organic composition: Yes.
4. Food: No.
5. Four-legged: No.
6. Found in the Minase household: No.
7. A doll: No.
8. A plant: No.
9. Found in the marketplace scenes: No-ish.
10. Alive: No.

Which brings us to the halfway mark, with no obvious leads uncovered. Your first hint: I am known to be partial.

emperor
2005-03-21, 17:39
To give some of my useless thoughts:If we look at question 3 we have the most clues. If we assumed it is (or rather was, see question 10) alive, we can conclude it's a dead Eucaryota(animal/human, we can exclude plant) or some kind of bacteria. As for the Eucaryota we can exclude humans as they are not smaller than a microwave. -> Either dead animal or bacteria (unlikely).
We could offer a dead fox, dunno if it's worth the question.
If we look at biological materials it opens a lot of possiblities, it could be something like oil, a wooden bench but food can be exluded though.

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-21, 17:51
My idea comes from the hint - he's known to be partial. As we all know, Haeleth happens to be very partial to Shiori, so could it be something related to her? It's smaller than a microwave, and organic in composition - possibly the shawl that she packs around? He said that the object is not found in the marketplace scene in the game - sortof. Could it possibly be argued that the park-like area where Yuuichi and Ayu first meet Shiori is 'sortof' part of the market area?

Just a few thoughts - what does everyone else think? I'm don't want to waste a question with a random stab in the dark...

New
2005-03-21, 17:54
I suppose, but doesn't Shiori go on a date with Yuuichi in the Shopping center at some point? And since the darling girl takes it everywhere, it's not exactly totally irrational to say that it isn't it.

But I could be wrong. All I know is that the background for the place Yuuichi takes Shiori on a date to is the same place he takes Nayuki for her sundaes. Which is in the shopping center.

EDIT: Furthermore, a dead fox has (Usually) 4 legs, and is still an animal, even if dead.

AstCd2
2005-03-21, 18:31
Just a few thoughts - what does everyone else think? I'm don't want to waste a question with a random stab in the dark...

Discussion without prejudice
My money's on her sketchbook, as paper is most definitely organic.
Is it smaller than a microwave, though?

Haeleth is also known to like Sayuri, but she hasn't got anything organic associated with her (apart from lunch?).

Regardless, the organic clue and the microwave clue are probably our best hints at the moment.

New
2005-03-21, 18:33
Yes, it is. Good one, I think it's worth asking.

Question: Is it Shiori's notebook?

AstCd2
2005-03-21, 18:53
Discussion without prejudice
Alternatively, it might be a snowball.
Snow is (arguably) organic and does appear in the marketplace.

New
2005-03-21, 18:58
In which case, it would be snow. But you can EAT snow.

K
2005-03-21, 19:03
Snow isn't organic. H2O doesn't contain carbon.

New
2005-03-21, 19:12
Is there a point where we are looking too far into something?

Slipgate
2005-03-21, 19:43
In answer to New's question... yes :). I'm stumped too though.

Quick bug report though - more and more frequently now the topic reply notification e-mails provide links that report the topic doesn't exist and I have to hit forum index and hit the thread up manually to get to them. One time it happened when we began splitting the Air threads up and that I understand, but the repeated recent instances I don't understand. The AIR discussion thread #4 and this thread are sometimes falling victim to this.

Slipgate

AstCd2
2005-03-21, 20:30
In which case, it would be snow. But you can EAT snow.

Hence why the question is phrased as whether it is 'generally considered to be food' =P

Snow isn't organic. H2O doesn't contain carbon.

Discussion
In that case, how about Shiori's medicine?
(although I get the feeling that this isn't it, given the ambiguous answer to the marketplace question; there's also medicine at the Minases', albeit not the type Shiori uses)

ChronoReverse
2005-03-21, 20:52
Discussion


Does Sayuri have her magic wand (the one from EFZ) in the game? Are we considering plastic to be organic right now?

AstCd2
2005-03-21, 21:02
Discussion
Does Sayuri have her magic wand (the one from EFZ) in the game? Are we considering plastic to be organic right now?

Discussion
No to both, as far as I'm aware.

New
2005-03-21, 21:08
Her... WAND?!

OK, unless I can get a purchasable game, I NEED to download this.

Keisuke
2005-03-21, 22:14
Sayurin's wand? It can be seen on the conver of Kanon OST.

http://www.myimgs.com/data/PKIM/kcd.jpg

New
2005-03-21, 22:31
I have no Kanon OST. This must be rectified.

*Goes to Ebay to begin Kanon franchise shopping spree*

AstCd2
2005-03-21, 22:32
Sayurin's wand? It can be seen on the conver of Kanon OST.

It's in one of the eyecatches for the TV series, too. I believe Maeda even mentioned it once or twice in past interviews, but I can't recall any references to it in the actual game.

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-21, 23:31
I remember seeing it in one of the anime episodes. During Mai's story, Sayuri is holding the wand in one of the 'halftime' interludes - the parts where two random characters say, "Kanon".

*Goes to Ebay to begin Kanon franchise shopping spree*
I wish you luck - aside from Gachapon figures, random doujinshi, and the occasional UFO Catcher plushie, eBay seems to be pretty devoid of official Kanon stuff - the closest I've come to finding a copy of the game on there has been a few times where the Dreamcast version was listed. Did see a homemade Nayuki school outfit for cosplay purposes a week back though - that was... interesting. 0_0

Your best bet might be Yahoo! Japan's auctions through Celga or a similar site, although no doubt someone here could probably point you in the right direction as well.

Back on the topic, I'm thinking of taking a stab at a general "Is it Shiori related?" question to see if we are or are not barking up the wrong tree, but I want to see how New's last question turns up first.

AstCd2
2005-03-21, 23:45
Back on the topic, I'm thinking of taking a stab at a general "Is it Shiori related?" question to see if we are or are not barking up the wrong tree, but I want to see how New's last question turns up first.

Discussion without prejudice
It almost seems as if we're wasting Haeleth's hint if we ask right after he's given it to us. Are there any other questions we could ask to narrow the field down first? Maybe a question aimed specifically at the attributes of the object, such as colour or texture?

I agree with the strategy of waiting for responses between each round of questions, though. We'll end up with saving a lot of questions that are essentially chasing the same points which become obvious upon the list of new answers.

Meanwhile, some good questions I saw on the Hakagi thread:
1. Does it appear in a CG?
2. Can it be purchased with a [set amount of money]?
3. Can it be seen all year around?
4. Is it an item a girl is more likely to have than a guy?
5. Can it be used to hold something/contain something?
6. Does it have any practical use?
7. Can it be used up?
8. Is it used every day?
9. Is it man-made?
10. Is it a Proper Noun?

Haeleth
2005-03-22, 03:02
The disadvantage of the answerer living in a different time zone from the questioners: you can have a whole page of discussions going on after someone's already got the answer. ^^;

Question: Is it Shiori's notebook?
Yes: that's close enough. For the paranoid who want to check, the word I md5summed was Sketchbook.

I was considering plastic to be organic and assuming the binding rings to be plastic, which enabled me to consider it 100% organic (not counting the traces of crayon on the page... I've no idea what that stuff's made of). The shopping centre issue: I don't recall a scene where we actually see Shiori with her sketchbook there, but there is the bit where the new one is bought, which happens off-screen but in the game.

I see a flaw in this whole setup, by the way. There are only so many things associated with each character, so running through "Is it from (one of the games)", then "Is it related to (each character in turn)" will narrow the field down far too much, to the point where it might even be possible just to guess items in turn without risking losing...

I suggest we bring in ONE and Clannad and permit obscure answers. I'd like to see anyone guess "the third green check from the left on the fifth row from the top of Rumi's skirt". :p

AstCd2
2005-03-22, 03:06
I see a flaw in this. There are only so many things associated with each character, so running through "Is it from (one of the games)", then "Is it related to (each character in turn)" will narrow the field down far too much, to the point where it might even be possible just to guess items in turn without risking losing...

Agreed. Hakagi has a much wider playing field than us, so to make the game sustainable, we have to either reduce the questions allowable, reduce the number of questions allowable, or open up the range of answers, the latter of which seems the most interesting. I'm sure a number of hints and some initial not-too-obscure choices could ensure that it's fair for all players.

In any case, at least include Planetarian! =P


I suggest we bring in ONE and Clannad and permit obscure answers. I'd like to see anyone guess "the third green check from the left on the fifth row from the top of Rumi's skirt". :p

上等じゃねぇか! やってやろう!

(I'll put something up later tonight if no one else has)

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-22, 04:59
I might not be of much help were Clannad and ONE to be included, having never played them.. :( Oh well, maybe I can learn something. ^_^

The suggestion to include Planetarian is a good idea, as it seems the majority of people here have played it. The story is fairly short, but if you think about it, there's a lot of possibilities of objects to include.

(not counting the traces of crayon on the page... I've no idea what that stuff's made of)
Wax. In its current form it is a synthetic substance created from crude oil or vegetable matter, but originally was derived from the wax in beehives, or sometimes animal fats. Lanolin is another type of wax and can be found in sheep's wool. The dyes were provided by various plants or berries. How's that for totally useless information?

Anyways, as far as making the game more challenging/opening up possibilities, how about cutting it back to 15 or even 10 questions? (Yes, I know the name of the game is 20 Questions, but...) We seem to have gotten the answers all with quite a few questions to spare; reducing the number allowed could ramp up the difficulty. Just a suggestion - either way, it's fun.

Nephillim
2005-03-22, 05:20
I remember seeing it in one of the anime episodes. During Mai's story, Sayuri is holding the wand in one of the 'halftime' interludes - the parts where two random characters say, "Kanon".

*Goes to Ebay to begin Kanon franchise shopping spree*
I wish you luck - aside from Gachapon figures, random doujinshi, and the occasional UFO Catcher plushie, eBay seems to be pretty devoid of official Kanon stuff - the closest I've come to finding a copy of the game on there has been a few times where the Dreamcast version was listed. Did see a homemade Nayuki school outfit for cosplay purposes a week back though - that was... interesting. 0_0

Your best bet might be Yahoo! Japan's auctions through Celga or a similar site, although no doubt someone here could probably point you in the right direction as well.



Quick chip in before the next round: Here's a pretty dependable merchant that stocks the OST

Anime Jungle: http://jungle-scs.co.jp/cgi-bin/series.php

Navigate to the "Game Music/I've" section and there ya go.

AstCd2
2005-03-22, 05:28
Anyways, as far as making the game more challenging/opening up possibilities, how about cutting it back to 15 or even 10 questions? (Yes, I know the name of the game is 20 Questions, but...) We seem to have gotten the answers all with quite a few questions to spare; reducing the number allowed could ramp up the difficulty. Just a suggestion - either way, it's fun.

The difficulty with the reduction in the number of allowable questions is that it also reduces the strategies that can be employed. Then again, playing with limitations requires strategy in itself... =3

Let's try an alternative model briefly, then:
1. 10 Questions
2. Questions substantially amounting to no more than "Is it related to [game]/[character]?" are prohibited.
3. Narrower questions (eg. "Does it appear after 23/12 in Kanon?") are still permissible.

The field is Kanon/Air/Planetarian.
A hint will be given at question 5 or beyond if you're not getting anywhere.
_____________________________________________________________

The fourth answer is:
502dd302b6d8d3c24b20ee49e2d51bd1

Good luck (you'll probably need it)!

Nephillim
2005-03-22, 06:48
I guess I'll start the ball rolling:

1) Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions?

New
2005-03-22, 07:57
Uh, yay, I did it.

That question may not be a good idea, man; technically, EVERYTHING runs on a source of power.

Haeleth
2005-03-22, 08:03
technically, EVERYTHING runs on a source of power.
I don't know that I'd go that far. People, animals, robots, and machines do, but none of the three answers we've seen so far - juice, snow bunnies, and sketchbooks - have been things that "require a source of energy to carry out their normal functions".

New
2005-03-22, 08:07
Even so, we've only got ten questions to run on. Something so general might not be such a good idea. But then again, something general might be something we need to have a clincher.

Uguu!

Oh, and I call dibs on the next word.

AstCd2
2005-03-22, 12:32
I guess I'll start the ball rolling:

1) Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions?

Mmn... I guess the answer would be 'No', although there's a tiny bit of room to argue.

1. Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions? --- No

New
2005-03-22, 17:21
Is it smaller then a microwave?

K
2005-03-22, 17:33
Well, by particle-wave theory everything is pretty much energy, so in order to exist, it had to have been formed from somewhere... that could be considered a "source of energy".

Correct me if I'm wrong, not like it really matters because we're not being super-technical anyway...

Haeleth
2005-03-22, 17:42
That's not so much splitting hairs as splitting atoms... O_o

Though I suppose it might be the "tiny bit of room" AstCd2 confesses to.

K
2005-03-22, 17:53
Heh, literally tiny, too.

AstCd2
2005-03-22, 21:27
Is it smaller then a microwave?

Yes.

1. Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions? --- No
Is it smaller then a microwave? --- Yes

New
2005-03-22, 21:36
Is it organic?

Keisuke
2005-03-22, 23:46
Edible?

New
2005-03-22, 23:55
Please don't answer edible until Organic's been answered. Because anything inorganic can't be eaten without dire effects.

AstCd2
2005-03-23, 01:07
Organic matter, in its most familiar context, would be something relating to or derived from living organisims. Hence things like people, vegetables, and paper are organic, while things like metal, stone, and plastic are inorganic (plastic even being synthetic.)

Is it organic?

From the above definition, 'No'.

1. Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions? --- No
2. Is it smaller then a microwave? --- Yes
3. Is it organic? --- No


Please don't answer edible until Organic's been answered. Because anything inorganic can't be eaten without dire effects.

Okay, but no more takebacks from now on, because it's really going to kill the pace of the thing if I can only answer one at a time =P

I'm not promising that it's not food or drink, either. You're free to ask again.

Nephillim
2005-03-23, 02:22
Hmm...... Does hazarding a guess count as as using a question?
If the above isn't true, then........

Thoughts:
Source of energy not required, smaller than a microwave ( I'm assuming that this refers to a microwave oven, not a single wave of electro-magnetism 0.0), inorganic, and seeing that planetarian's being dragged in....

I doubt we're going to be nit-picky with the science behind these things, so......
possibly the bouquet of 'flowers' given to the junker protagonist by Yumemi?

Haeleth
2005-03-23, 02:57
Please don't answer edible until Organic's been answered. Because anything inorganic can't be eaten without dire effects.
Salt?

possibly the bouquet of 'flowers' given to the junker protagonist by Yumemi?
Too obvious... I can't believe AstCd2 would introduce a new game and choose one of the most prominent items from it, both in the same round. In fact, I'd almost be tempted to rule out Planetarian items altogether this round, if I didn't have a horrible suspicion that that's just what he wants us to do. Unless he's just trying to make us think that...

(Insert obligatory Princess Bride quotations here. The book/film, not the game.)

Nephillim
2005-03-23, 02:59
Please don't answer edible until Organic's been answered. Because anything inorganic can't be eaten without dire effects.
Salt?

And for that matter, water too :D

AstCd2
2005-03-23, 07:27
Hmm...... Does hazarding a guess count as as using a

With only 7 questions left, I'd be real certain before I made any specific guesses.
If you're stuck for questions, perhaps you might want to use some of the ones I mentioned on the earlier page
(That's not intended to be a hint or anything, mind you).

In fact, I'd almost be tempted to rule out Planetarian items altogether this round, if I didn't have a horrible suspicion that that's just what he wants us to do.

ウフフ…どうでしょうかね~?

New
2005-03-23, 07:30
Stop speaking in Japanese. It's like some secret code language.

Slipgate
2005-03-23, 07:49
New: Just hold your mouse over the Japanese. It'll translate for you.

New
2005-03-23, 07:57
Oh.... my... GOD. I cannot BELIEVE I missed something THAT obvious. Gomen de. ^_^;;

Slipgate
2005-03-23, 08:15
Well they don't always do it, but in general they try to. See the "mouseovers" thread I started.

Haeleth
2005-03-23, 08:38
That's not intended to be a hint or anything, mind you
...or is it?

Question, if not too broad: is it the subject of a running joke in the scenario(s) it appears in?

Korgath
2005-03-23, 14:19
Is it man-made?

AstCd2
2005-03-23, 14:34
Question, if not too broad: is it the subject of a running joke in the scenario(s) it appears in?

No.

Is it man-made?

Yes.

1. Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions? --- No
2. Is it smaller then a microwave? --- Yes
3. Is it organic? --- No
4. Is it the subject of a running joke in the scenario(s) it appears in? --- No
5. Is it man-made? --- Yes

Hint 1: It's an inexpensive object that you're very likely to have purchased at least once before.

Iriliane
2005-03-23, 15:24
Is it something that would be considdered to be edible?

Haeleth
2005-03-23, 15:45
Is it something that would be considdered to be edible?
I think we can rule that out, given that it's not organic and neither salt nor water would normally be described as "an inexpensive object".

Slipgate
2005-03-23, 15:53
obDialogue:

I don't know, you had a funny definition of organic... others might have a funny definition of an inexpensive object. :)

Iriliane
2005-03-23, 16:15
Is it something that would be considdered to be edible?
I think we can rule that out, given that it's not organic and neither salt nor water would normally be described as "an inexpensive object".

Very well. Disregard my previous question.

Keisuke
2005-03-23, 17:10
Shiori's Knife?

New
2005-03-23, 17:17
Wait, Shiori has a knife?! (NOT a question)

Keisuke
2005-03-23, 17:25
Now, if one of us explain about this Shiori's knife, then it would just give away huge spoiler huh?

Slipgate
2005-03-23, 17:32
Now, if one of us explain about this Shiori's knife, then it would just give away huge spoiler huh?

Indubitably, my good Keisuke. Indubitably. So who's your latest avatar? Quite fetching character she is.

Slipgate
who's communing Sherlock Holmes, right down to the sensibilities.

Slipgate
2005-03-23, 17:36
And in such a manner, too!

ROT13ed version of what I was originally going to say and then thought better of: Naq va fhpu n cynpr, gbb!

Slipgate

Haeleth
2005-03-23, 17:36
I don't think it's really much of a spoiler to explain about Shiori's knife. The knife scene's great. I always feel sorry for Makoto, though... she didn't deserve what happened to her... and who'd have thought Piro had so much blood in him?

Serious answer: yes, she has a knife. ;)

(Continuity note: Slipgate's post above is replying to an earlier version of the Makoto comment that I posted before it was ready and then deleted.)

Slipgate
2005-03-23, 17:38
Aww! my reply worked better playing off your original post of "Poor Makoto never saw it coming..." .... imagine you just read that and then read my post of two posts above this.

Alright, back to the game.

Slipgate

Keisuke
2005-03-23, 17:41
So who's your latest avatar? Quite fetching character she is.

She is Yuki from Mizuiro.

The knife scene's great. I always feel sorry for Makoto, though... she didn't deserve what happened to her... and who'd have thought Piro had so much blood in him?

Sounds like you are talking about Kanoso...
Although I can't remember if Kanoso had a such scene.

AstCd2
2005-03-23, 18:39
Shiori's Knife?

Is this an official question?

2005-03-23, 18:44
I always feel sorry for Makoto, though... she didn't deserve what happened to her... and who'd have thought Piro had so much blood in him?
HAHAHA! I thought you were talking about the game as I read the Makoto part - the noticed the piece about Piro having so much blood. :-D

Okay, a bit of a conjecture at this point. First, we are now including Planetarian in the questions. This doesn't guarantee that the object in question is FROM Planetarian, but I got to thinking: The item is smaller than a microwave, man-made, inorganic, and not funny. We've most likely purchased one before. I'm wondering if it could be a screwdriver or another tool offered to Mr. Customer by Reverie as he's attempting to repair the projector. For some reason, screwdriver and the wrench are the only items that stand out in my mind. They don't normally use power, although you can have both power wrenches and the screwdriver attachment for an electric drill. Just a thought, but pending the outcome of the current questions standing, I wonder if inquiring if the object is a tool or not would be a wise question?

Keisuke
2005-03-23, 18:46
Shiori's Knife?

Is this an official question?
Uh.. Yes.

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-23, 18:46
GAH! Miserable disappearing cookies! Why can't I actually STAY logged in to websites until I say otherwise, as indicated by that stupid checkbox??

That was me above, sorry. -_-

AstCd2
2005-03-23, 18:51
Shiori's Knife?

Is this an official question?
Uh.. Yes.

In that case, 'No'.
Interesting reasoning, though.

1. Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions? --- No
2. Is it smaller then a microwave? --- Yes
3. Is it organic? --- No
4. Is it the subject of a running joke in the scenario(s) it appears in? --- No
5. Is it man-made? --- Yes
6. Is it Shiori's knife? --- No

Hint 1: It's an inexpensive object that you're very likely to have purchased at least once before.

Spiritsnare
2005-03-23, 21:06
I was about to say "JAM!!" but looked and saw that it wasn't organic x.x

gp32
2005-03-24, 06:01
I was about to say "JAM!!" but looked and saw that it wasn't organic x.x
Although I'm sure that reasonable doubt exists whether or not said jam actually fits in the category of things known as 'organic' ...

Haeleth
2005-03-24, 06:07
However, there's no doubt that the jam is a running joke, and therefore (sadly) ruled out.

Slipgate
2005-03-24, 07:38
Serious Question: Does it (or could it) carry or hold other objects in it?

Aside: Sorry about my part in the conversation that had to be moderated away. Gomen ne!

Slipgate

AstCd2
2005-03-24, 07:40
Serious Question: Does it (or could it) carry or hold other objects in it?

Yes, technically, you could put something inside, and in a sense, that's what it's used for.
But in another (very arguable) sense, the answer is no...

I'll pass on the question, but you can consider that Hint #2.

1. Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions? --- No
2. Is it smaller then a microwave? --- Yes
3. Is it organic? --- No
4. Is it the subject of a running joke in the scenario(s) it appears in? --- No
5. Is it man-made? --- Yes
6. Is it Shiori's knife? --- No

Pass:
1. Does it (or could it) carry or hold other objects in it? --- Yes/No

Haeleth
2005-03-24, 07:48
If it turns out to have been the game window, I shall not be amused... :p

gp32
2005-03-24, 08:21
If it turns out to have been the game window, I shall not be amused... :p
But that would require a source of electricity, right?

Now, if it turns out to be the case of the computer on which one would be running eroge ...

Iriliane
2005-03-24, 14:37
Is it owned by a character who attends the same school as Yuuichi?

ChronoReverse
2005-03-24, 17:01
Is it a mitten?

Iriliane
2005-03-24, 18:45
Is it a mitten?
I would request that you retract that question as most mittens contain some organic material I.e. wool.

AstCd2
2005-03-24, 19:04
Is it a mitten?
I would request that you retract that question as most mittens contain some organic material I.e. wool.

I'll let you guys talk this one over, then.

Is it owned by a character who attends the same school as Yuuichi?

No.

No one's even come close yet, so I'll give you another hint.

Hint 2: It appears in a CG.

1. Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions? --- No
2. Is it smaller then a microwave? --- Yes
3. Is it organic? --- No
4. Is it the subject of a running joke in the scenario(s) it appears in? --- No
5. Is it man-made? --- Yes
6. Is it Shiori's knife? --- No
7. Is it owned by a character who attends the same school as Yuuichi? --- No

Pass:
1. Does it (or could it) carry or hold other objects in it? --- Yes/No

Hints:
1. It's an inexpensive object that you're very likely to have purchased at least once before.

Iriliane
2005-03-24, 19:49
Does the CG in which it appears occur indoors?

zalas
2005-03-24, 21:21
Is it made of metal?

2005-03-25, 04:33
is it a mechanical pencil?

Haeleth
2005-03-25, 04:39
Hang on, hang on! Using all three of the remaining questions all at once isn't wise!

I think we can rule out the mechanical pencil idea, good though it is - I don't remember them appearing at all in AIR or Planetarian, and the only people who have them in Kanon are all at Yuuichi's school.

AstCd2
2005-03-25, 05:08
Does the CG in which it appears occur indoors?

No.

Is it made of metal?

No.

Hang on, hang on! Using all three of the remaining questions all at once isn't wise!

I think we can rule out the mechanical pencil idea, good though it is - I don't remember them appearing at all in AIR or Planetarian, and the only people who have them in Kanon are all at Yuuichi's school.

I'll leave this one up to discussion, then.

Halving the questions and removing the character and game questions simultaneously seems to have shifted the difficulty factor a tad too high. Given that no one has asked any groundbreaking questions yet, what does everyone think of the idea of changing the limit to 15 questions?


1. Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions? --- No
2. Is it smaller then a microwave? --- Yes
3. Is it organic? --- No
4. Is it the subject of a running joke in the scenario(s) it appears in? --- No
5. Is it man-made? --- Yes
6. Is it Shiori's knife? --- No
7. Is it owned by a character who attends the same school as Yuuichi? --- No
8. Does the CG in which it appears occur indoors? --- No.
9. Is it made of metal? --- No.

Pass:
1. Does it (or could it) carry or hold other objects in it? --- Yes/No

Hints:
1. It's an inexpensive object that you're very likely to have purchased at least once before.
2. It appears in a CG.

Stranger
2005-03-25, 09:30
alright, am up to reseting the qustion count to 20.

qustion: is it wearable? (ok, bad spelling, I mean can someone wear it?!)

am thinking Ayu's hair band (not a qustion)

Slipgate
2005-03-25, 09:37
He said 15, not 20 :).

Haeleth
2005-03-25, 11:35
Well, even 15 will do. It'd better be more than 10 now that he just asked the 10th. ;)

Thinking aloud: other things that spring to mind that more or less fit what we know so far would be Ayu's mittens (if they're synthetic) and keyring, possibly the water-pistols from the hidden scenario, Minagi's bubble liquid bottle and/or straw, Kano's balloon... gah, there's still too many to start guessing. :(

Slipgate
2005-03-25, 11:37
Thinking aloud: To be honest, I didn't think being able to narrow the game down made the game too easy, we had a few lucky breaks... some overly pointed questions might be avoided, but otherwise, if we could at least know game we could actually get somewhere within 10 questions, otherwise I don't often seeing us being even near an answer in 10... I still support reducing it from 20 questions though, and avoiding asking other "too narrow" questions.

Slipgate

AstCd2
2005-03-25, 18:56
qustion: is it wearable?

No.

1. Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions? --- No
2. Is it smaller then a microwave? --- Yes
3. Is it organic? --- No
4. Is it the subject of a running joke in the scenario(s) it appears in? --- No
5. Is it man-made? --- Yes
6. Is it Shiori's knife? --- No
7. Is it owned by a character who attends the same school as Yuuichi? --- No
8. Does the CG in which it appears occur indoors? --- No
9. Is it made of metal? --- No
10. Is it wearable? --- No

Pass:
1. Does it (or could it) carry or hold other objects in it? --- Yes/No

Hints:
1. It's an inexpensive object that you're very likely to have purchased at least once before.
2. It appears in a CG.

Keisuke
2005-03-25, 19:22
Is the person who owns this object related to Sayuri?

Spiritsnare
2005-03-25, 19:27
Damn is this hard...

I'm debating on whether I should guess 'Yuuichi's pen case, made out of plastic' or something.

AstCd2
2005-03-25, 19:34
Is the person who owns this object related to Sayuri?

That sounds like a character question to me, so I'll have to pass.

I'm debating on whether I should guess 'Yuuichi's pen case, made out of plastic' or something.

Yuuichi's pen case is owned by Yuuichi, who presumably attends the same school as himself =P

2005-03-25, 20:17
Ayu and Yuuichi attended the same "school", too, didn't they? So I think we can rule out Ayu's possessions.

Stranger
2005-03-25, 21:38
(not a qustion): do they show CDs in any of the CGs?! CDs are inexpansive, and are not made of metal, and everyone here most certenly have bought one.

(not a qustion): or could it be be some food plate or container?!hmmm..

Qustion: is the item related to food in any way?! (ie. used to carry food, or simply to contain/hold food)

Ayu and Yuuichi attended the same "school", too, didn't they? So I think we can rule out Ayu's possessions.They never attended the same school, not even as kids, Yuuichi always visited in the summer break (I think).

AstCd2
2005-03-25, 21:41
Qustion: is the item related to food in any way?!

No.

You guys have sure used up a lot of questions over the food issue ^^;

They never attended the same school, not even as kids, Yuuichi always visited in the summer break (I think).

I take it you haven't played through the Ayu scenario, then.
I took the question to literally mean Yuuichi and Nayuki's school, by the way.

1. Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions? --- No
2. Is it smaller then a microwave? --- Yes
3. Is it organic? --- No
4. Is it the subject of a running joke in the scenario(s) it appears in? --- No
5. Is it man-made? --- Yes
6. Is it Shiori's knife? --- No
7. Is it owned by a character who attends the same school as Yuuichi? --- No
8. Does the CG in which it appears occur indoors? --- No
9. Is it made of metal? --- No
10. Is it wearable? --- No
11. Is the item related to food in any way? --- No

Pass:
1. Does it (or could it) carry or hold other objects in it? --- Yes/No

Hints:
1. It's an inexpensive object that you're very likely to have purchased at least once before.
2. It appears in a CG.

Keisuke
2005-03-25, 22:39
Is the person who owns this object related to Sayuri?

That sounds like a character question to me, so I'll have to pass.


Eh.... o_O

I will write it more clear. >_<

Is it owned by a character who is related to Sayuri?

If it is, then my guess (official) is Kazuya's water gun.

AstCd2
2005-03-25, 23:29
Eh.... o_O

I will write it more clear. >_<

Is it owned by a character who is related to Sayuri?

If it is, then my guess (official) is Kazuya's water gun.

Well, I still can't answer a question that is for all practical purposes (given the clues so far) equivalent to "Is it related to Kazuya?", but I gather the question you really want to ask is about the water pistol (as nothing else relating to him fits with the clues), so instead of answering the first, I'll answer the second.

No, it's not Kazuya's water pistol.

I'd love to give a 3rd hint here, but some of you are already on the right track.

1. Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions? --- No
2. Is it smaller then a microwave? --- Yes
3. Is it organic? --- No
4. Is it the subject of a running joke in the scenario(s) it appears in? --- No
5. Is it man-made? --- Yes
6. Is it Shiori's knife? --- No
7. Is it owned by a character who attends the same school as Yuuichi? --- No
8. Does the CG in which it appears occur indoors? --- No
9. Is it made of metal? --- No
10. Is it wearable? --- No
11. Is the item related to food in any way? --- No
12. Is it Kazuya's water pistol? --- No

Pass:
1. Does it (or could it) carry or hold other objects in it? --- Yes/No

Hints:
1. It's an inexpensive object that you're very likely to have purchased at least once before.
2. It appears in a CG.

Keisuke
2005-03-26, 00:17
Is it a liquid then? -_-

AstCd2
2005-03-26, 00:22
Is it a liquid then? -_-

No.

1. Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions? --- No
2. Is it smaller then a microwave? --- Yes
3. Is it organic? --- No
4. Is it the subject of a running joke in the scenario(s) it appears in? --- No
5. Is it man-made? --- Yes
6. Is it Shiori's knife? --- No
7. Is it owned by a character who attends the same school as Yuuichi? --- No
8. Does the CG in which it appears occur indoors? --- No
9. Is it made of metal? --- No
10. Is it wearable? --- No
11. Is the item related to food in any way? --- No
12. Is it Kazuya's water pistol? --- No
13. Is it a liquid? --- No

Pass:
1. Does it (or could it) carry or hold other objects in it? --- Yes/No

Hints:
1. It's an inexpensive object that you're very likely to have purchased at least once before.
2. It appears in a CG.

Haeleth
2005-03-26, 03:54
Is it a liquid then? -_-
Keisuke, how many man-made inorganic liquids can you think of in CGs in Key games? X_x

We've only got two questions left. I suggest that people post ideas and only turn them into questions when someone else has agreed with them - that way perhaps we can avoid wasting any more.

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-26, 05:04
So in general, it's a small (-er than a microwave) manmade inorganic object used to hold things (but possibly not recognized as such or known for that purpose) that isn't related to food and we're very likely to have purchased one before.

I've only played through Planetarian, most of the Ayu scenario in Kanon, and a little way into Air, so I'm not too knowledgeable about what appears in the CGs... My thought was possibly a glass thermometer? I know it shows up several times in Kanon and Air, but am unsure if there was a CG with one. It doesn't take energy (except possibly heat energy - could be this the arguable point?), and applies to nearly all of the questions asked, as well as the hint that it sortof can be used to hold something (the mercury). This would be the only stumbling block - the mercury is, of course, a heavy metal, but the glass thermometer itself is not made of metal... Just a thought.

zalas
2005-03-26, 05:05
(not a qustion): do they show CDs in any of the CGs?! CDs are inexpansive, and are not made of metal, and everyone here most certenly have bought one.
There's metal foil in the CDs. That's why they're so shiny :D

Nephillim
2005-03-26, 05:11
Analysis of AIR's CGs doesn't seem to show any objects that meet all the conditions, so I assume its safe to rule AIR out.

That leaves planetarian (unlikely) and Kanon.

Haven't completed Kanon, but....
1) CDs are organic (they're made of some plastic polycarbonate thing)
2) Ayu's hairband should either be of plastic, metal, or a combination of both so it's out.
3) Ayu's "school" (Spoiler: The Tree) wasn't attended by Yuuichi then ("Present" in the game world), and TECHNICALLY it isn't a school in the first place.

Now, my memory of the Kanon anime's fuzzy, and I don't have any prior knowledge of it being in a CG (people who've completed Kanon, please comment), but I've got the feeling its the glass bottle that contained Ayu's angel wish-doll.

Let's look at the points:

1. No source of energy required.
2. DEFINATELY smaller than a microwave
3. Glass is, in its basest form, melted silicon, so its not organic.
4. I'm positive scene's involving it aren't jokes -_-'''
5. Glass doesn't exist in nature.
6. It's not even related to Shiori.
7. Ayu doesn't TECHNICALLY go to Yuuichi's school.
8. As much as I can recall from the anime, the bottle was rarely, if ever, indoors.
9. Glass isn't metal
10. Not wearabled.
11. Not food-related, unless you can eat Ayu's doll.
12. Not a water pistol
13. And not liquid.

Of the hints, glass bottles are definately inexpensive, though I can't be sure of it appearing in a CG.

And from the line that AstCd2 said about putting things in:



"Yes, technically, you could put something inside, and in a sense, that's what it's used for.
But in another (very arguable) sense, the answer is no... "

The glass bottle contained the doll and realistically speaking thats all it could possibly hold, so it couldn't have been able hold much more (maybe sand? But that would satisfy the "arguability" part of the statement.)

If (AND ONLY IF) anyone can confirm the existance of it in a Kanon CG, my official question would be
"Is it THE bottle that contained Ayu's Angel-wish-doll thing?"

EDIT: Clarified for accuracy on plastic ^^;. CD's are still polyCARBONate-based, of that I'm certain

AstCd2
2005-03-26, 05:25
Haven't completed Kanon, but....
1) CDs are organic (they're made of some plastic polycarbonate thing)


Just a note here: on the interpretation of organic I used, plastic is not organic (see the original answer to question 3 for where the line is drawn).

2005-03-26, 05:48
Why does it seem that most people think the object in question is from Kanon? Why not Air?
There seems to be more possibilities in Air CG's than Kanon, like Minagi's glass bottle of sand, or maybe the balloon young Kano bought?

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-26, 06:55
The balloon is a really good idea...

Of course, a question we could always try would be one about if the object is glass in any way - that would help with Ayu's jar or the sand bottles.

4. I'm positive scene's involving it aren't jokes -_-'''
5. Glass doesn't exist in nature.

<nitpicking>Weeellll... not in such a refined state, no, but there are things like obsidian which are naturally occurring glass. Just thought I'd point that out. </nitpicking> But yeah, the scenes with the jar are about the most un-funny ones in the entire game/anime. :(

Keisuke
2005-03-26, 08:07
Is it a liquid then? -_-
Keisuke, how many man-made inorganic liquids can you think of in CGs in Key games? X_x


I had Minagi's soap bubble on my mind, I just wanted to confirm it. XP


Of the hints, glass bottles are definately inexpensive, though I can't be sure of it appearing in a CG.

Uguu~ You mean this one? (http://animepa.csusm.edu/uguu/game/large/kanon021.jpg)

New
2005-03-26, 08:08
...

NOT A SINGLE DAMN ACTUAL GUESS IN THIS POST! I REPEAT, NO OFFICIAL QUESTIONS HERE!

Since we're pretty damn sure it's Kanon, let's analyze the following link.

http://animepa.csusm.edu/uguu/game/index.htm

That's a list of virtually every single CG in Kanon (Aside from H), and we can rule out the H-scenes.

Due to the fact that it doesn't relate to anyone going to Yuuichi's school, we can rule out any CG with Mai, Nayuki, Shiori, Kaori, Kitagawa, Yuuichi (Though only loosely; just cuz he doesn't own it doesn't mean it's not in the same scene with him) and Sayuri.

It's not made of metal, and isn't wearable.

Thus, we can rule out all of Makoto's CG's (Since... it isn't wearable, and there's only wardrobe objects.).

Unless we're know whatever material that that sack is made of (It looks improvised), that's an option, since it's inorganic (Not sure of it, but as soon as someone can say so, we can ask) and you normally wouldn't hold an item with it.

From my POV, Akiko doesn't HAVE anything like that in ANY CG.

That's my only idea, and it'll be shot instant someone comfirms/denys it.

Haeleth
2005-03-26, 08:45
That link doesn't include the extra CGs from the all-age version, however...

Very lazy New
2005-03-26, 08:52
True. Anyone who can show the extra CG from Kanon, please do so so we can further analyze; no need to bring from Kaori, Shiori, Mai, Nayuki, Kitagawa, Sayuri, or Yuuichi.

Stranger
2005-03-26, 09:31
(not a qustion) what do you people think about the family picture?! (spoiler, so no details). could the picture qualify?!

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-26, 15:20
I'm just wondering, are we really sure it IS about Kanon? I mean, the questions have skewed to that side, but to my knowledge, I don't remember seeing anything that tells us specifically to rule out Air or Planetarian. Then again, I could have just missed something, which is entirely possible.

Asking questions like if the item is related to Shiori aren't nessicarily a confirmation of Kanon as the game in question - it could be not related to Shiori in that it's in an entirely different game.

K
2005-03-26, 16:37
http://animepa.csusm.edu/uguu/game/index.htm

That's a list of virtually every single CG in Kanon (Aside from H), and we can rule out the H-scenes.
Although they missed removing one HCG in the Ayu section. At least it doesn't have nudity though.

New
2005-03-26, 21:02
On that note, Makoto's bath scenes are still in there, nudity and all.

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-26, 23:24
Bad ol' Yuuichi, copping a feel...
I think it would be a humorous change to see a game featuring anything from a cutting rejection to outright physical violence toward the protagonist when he goes in for the H-scene. Think about it - the gamer is going along unaware, cheesy dialog indicates the coming of a 'special' scene, when the girl in question just decks him upside the head and runs off. It'd be closer to real life that way!

But back on topic...

3. Is it organic? --- No
5. Is it man-made? --- Yes
9. Is it made of metal? --- No

This helps narrow it down a reasonable amount - we're basically looking at something plastic or glass, or some other synthetic non-metallic substance I've missed.

7. Is it owned by a character who attends the same school as Yuuichi? --- No
IF the object is indeed to be found in Kanon, this criteria rules out all but Makoto, Akiko, and - depending on how you interpret school, Ayu.

Now, right here I think we can rule some things out. Ayu owns very few things - mainly her clothes, backpack, and the angel doll. Clothes and backpack are ruled out because they are wearable, and the angel doll itself is gone because, unless it's explicitly made of nylon, rayon, etc., the material and thread used to make it were organic (most likely cotton). I think this pretty much rules out Ayu.
Makoto also has few possessions - mainly just what's in her purse. However, this either doesn't appear in a CG, or appears inside, so I'd assume it rules out Makoto as well. If Kanon is really the scope of the answer, I'd say it would have to lie with Akiko, someone I'm no expert on.
Please let me know if I missed anything.

I propose broadening our search to Air and Planetarian, and leaving Kanon behind for a little bit. A lot of our questions and speculation have been really Kanon-centric, but with the overwhelming amount of negative answers to questions, I'm wondering if we haven't been barking up the wrong tree.

Nephillim
2005-03-26, 23:48
Hmm........ if I take AstCd'2s definition of organic (and automatically ignoring anything wearable)

Misuzu's stuffed dinosaur fits the bill, unless its stuffed with cotton instead of some man-made polymer. They're not really THAT expensive now, are they?

....Well, in HER world, maybe (The one from OUR world : http://www.hlj.com/product/CSP08577)

The bubble-blower-straw thing in the Minagi scenarios looked like it could have qualified, but you did poke Michiru/crush it/etc, so I guess it qualifies as a joke.

Kano doesn't own much except her balloon, which HAS to be made of rubber.

As for our dear Kanna...... well, you can't really bring much when you're trying to escape now, can you?

As for planetarian.......... there's not much that isn't made of metal there.
UNLESS, you're looking at the "Holographic Videotape Playback" thing that Yumemi screened from her ears (shouldn't be bigger than a microwave, seeing how *Spoiler* Yumemi was 'dying') . Light doesn't need a source of energy BECAUSE it's energy itself (physics students, feel free to correct me). The display device would need power, but not the actual image.
But yeah, anything from planetarian would be a weak argument.

I still think its Ayu's glass bottle (there's the CG there, after all), but I won't want to risk it just YET, seeing that there's only 2 questions left...

AstCd2
2005-03-26, 23:55
Just to remind you guys; you are allowed a final answer independent of the first 15 questions. If you feel confident enough to reduce it down to three choices...

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-27, 00:24
Just looked back through CG Mode on Planetarian, and there's not a whole lot of anything in the outside CGs that would fit with the description. I think we can safely rule that one out.

Haeleth
2005-03-27, 13:24
I still think its Ayu's glass bottle (there's the CG there, after all)
Unfortunately there isn't... that jar doesn't actually appear in any of the CGs, or not so that I can see it.

I propose another more general question. How about asking whether the CG it appears in is in the present day? At a rough guess I think that would come close to dividing the range of CGs it might be in 50/50.

New
2005-03-27, 23:23
But the present day is 2005. Kanon takes place in 1995, Air 2000, and Planitarian 2035 or something.

AstCd2
2005-03-27, 23:39
Actually, Kanon takes place in 1999, going by the Minase family sticker photo. Defining 1999-2000 as present day would indeed divide it up about 50/50, seeing as how a significant part of both Kanon and Air takes place in the past.

New
2005-03-28, 02:26
Then should we ask that, Haeleath? You being oh-so-wise?

Oh, and dibs on the next question... again.

Haeleth
2005-03-28, 02:47
Consider it asked, AstCd2.

AstCd2
2005-03-28, 03:04
Question: Does the CG take place in the present day (approximately 2000 AD)?

Yes.

1. Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions? --- No
2. Is it smaller then a microwave? --- Yes
3. Is it organic? --- No
4. Is it the subject of a running joke in the scenario(s) it appears in? --- No
5. Is it man-made? --- Yes
6. Is it Shiori's knife? --- No
7. Is it owned by a character who attends the same school as Yuuichi? --- No
8. Does the CG in which it appears occur indoors? --- No
9. Is it made of metal? --- No
10. Is it wearable? --- No
11. Is the item related to food in any way? --- No
12. Is it Kazuya's water pistol? --- No
13. Is it a liquid? --- No
14. Does the CG take place in the present day? --- Yes

Pass:
1. Does it (or could it) carry or hold other objects in it? --- Yes/No

Hints:
1. It's an inexpensive object that you're very likely to have purchased at least once before.
2. It appears in a CG.

New
2005-03-28, 08:48
That removes any and all flashback CG's, and effectivly decimates all of Summer.

It also kills Planetarian. Still a stumper.

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-28, 14:45
I wonder if it would be an object that could be found in both Air and Kanon? From our list of hints and asked questions (especially the one about it being something we'd most likely have purchased before), I'm wondering if it would happen to be some really common household item, like a bowl or something.

Haeleth
2005-03-28, 14:53
I'm wondering if it would happen to be some really common household item, like a bowl or something.
Good idea, but I don't think it can be: it has to appear out of doors and not be related to food in any way...

Do feel free to drop us another hint any time, AstCd2... you said someone was getting close, but I'm really having trouble working out who or how. X_x

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-28, 14:59
Good idea, but I don't think it can be: it has to appear out of doors and not be related to food in any way...
Right, bad example - that'll teach me to post while eating. I'm just really hung up on the whole "inexpensive purchase you've most likely made before" thing, as I think it's one of the better and most telling hints out there.

We're sortof running out of questions, but now that I think about it, I wonder if it would help at all if we could establish if the object was something you would (barring losing it or having it stolen) only have to buy once, or if it was disposable of some kind - throw it away when it's served its purpose?

Keisuke
2005-03-28, 16:33
Misuzu's stuffed dinosaur fits the bill.


Then.... I guess sofa cushions are okay too? (This is not the official question)

emperor
2005-03-28, 17:44
Misuzu's stuffed dinosaur fits the bill.


Then.... I guess sofa cushions are okay too? (This is not the official question)
Are there really sofa cushions that are only on CGs outside houses?

Keisuke
2005-03-28, 17:57
CRUD! Forgot.

AstCd2
2005-03-28, 18:39
I wonder if it would be an object that could be found in both Air and Kanon? From our list of hints and asked questions (especially the one about it being something we'd most likely have purchased before), I'm wondering if it would happen to be some really common household item, like a bowl or something.

Well, it'd be against the rules to use just any common item. It has to have some commonly acknowledged Key-related significance beyond just 'being' in the game.

Do feel free to drop us another hint any time, AstCd2... you said someone was getting close, but I'm really having trouble working out who or how. X_x

With all the analysis so far, it's very difficult to give a hint at this point without giving it away completely, but I'll give it a shot:

Hint 3: This object can't withstand rough handling.

zalas
2005-03-28, 19:00
I'm starting to think it's that angel figurine thing inside that bottle...

Nephillim
2005-03-29, 00:37
Perplexing.......

At face value, the doll's not MEANT to carry objects.


Yes, technically, you could put something inside, and in a sense, that's what it's used for.
But in another (very arguable) sense, the answer is no...

The "something" in this case probably isn't material, if said in the context of the doll. I guess this "something" would be Ayu's wishes, which it could "carry".

Furthermore, it was damaged quite badly so naturally it would be pretty easy to ruin it .

However...
1) What material was the doll made out of? Was it stuffed with cotton (a la Misuzu's dinosaur).
2) ASSUMING all of us are guys, and ASSUMING all of you don't usually buy this kind of stuff, is it likely that we have purchased an angel doll before? :P

Slipgate
2005-03-29, 07:17
Discussion: But rough handling being bad and possibly containing something are all true of a glass bottle. The BOTTLE itself that the angel doll is in "could" carry other things and all but that's not what we're thinking of it in terms of when we see Kanon. We're not using the bottle to put something else inside and to carry things, it's the bottle "around" the doll. And we've bought bottles.

Slipgate

Haeleth
2005-03-29, 07:34
But, as I said before, I can't find any CGs with that jar in them, so I don't think it can be that. Unless anyone can point me to one I'm missing...

Slipgate
2005-03-29, 07:36
No, I don't think the bottle shows up... I once did a complete slideshow view of ALL of the graphics in Kanon (sue me, I already knew how the story was going to play out anyway) and though I saw the doll at least once, it wasn't inside the bottle at the time that I can recall.

Aaarrgh. :P I'm stumped.

AstCd2
2005-03-29, 08:03
It seems to me that a lot of people are focusing on forcing the clues to work with one particular object (or game/set of people/etc) that they conceive as conducive to the answer with ever-more convulted logic.

But there really is no trickery or abstract expression behind the clues. They all mean exactly what they say, with the possible exception of the question I passed on. Thus, perhaps things would be clearer if you listed all the possibilities and then eliminated them logically one by one, as a certain famous detective would have done. I know it's not easy to rule things out completely, but if you look at the entire list of possibilities in light of the clues, I think you'll see one particular item that stands out...

Stranger
2005-03-29, 21:44
Minagi's bubble liquid bottle and/or strawam beging to agree with this one, unless people are agenst it then I think you should use it as a qustion.

update: (not a qustion... yet), maybe the qustion should be, "is it related to water in any way?" (note, using water to clean it it irrlevent :) ).

New
2005-03-29, 23:24
Minagi's bubble liquid bottle and/or strawam beging to agree with this one, unless people are agenst it then I think you should use it as a qustion.

update: (not a qustion... yet), maybe the qustion should be, "is it related to water in any way?" (note, using water to clean it it irrlevent :) ).

The item isn't related to food in any way, and saying straws are used on Misuzu's peach juice, which is so thick it's essentially food, yeah.

Stranger
2005-03-29, 23:41
(not a qustion) am not realy sure what do you mean by strew, or what does Misuzu have to do with the above post.... any way, what is the English name if the Plastic object that you use to blow into to make the soup bubbles?!... that is the object I think Haeleth meant.

New
2005-03-29, 23:54
(not a qustion) am not realy sure what do you mean by strew, or what does Misuzu have to do with the above post.... any way, what is the English name if the Plastic object that you use to blow into to make the soup bubbles?!... that is the object I think Haeleth meant.Wrong, that is not what Haeleth meant.

In AIR, Michiru and Minagi use a straight plastic straw to blow their bubbles instead of the usual thing.

Haeleth
2005-03-30, 00:06
We can't rule it out on the food front: straws in general can be associated with food, but the particular one Michiru uses is never used for anything but bubble-blowing as far as we know. I seem to remember someone pointing out that Michiru's incompetence with it was a running joke. I guess the question there is how strictly AstCd2 interpreted the question... the straw itself isn't a joke, just what Michiru fails to do with it.

Stranger
2005-03-30, 00:07
Wrong, that is not what Haeleth meant.

In AIR, Michiru and Minagi use a straight plastic straw to blow their bubbles instead of the usual thing.*goes back to watch the anime*, damn!!

*hit himself on the head*, opps an other site

AstCd2
2005-03-30, 00:26
I seem to remember someone pointing out that Michiru's incompetence with it was a running joke. I guess the question there is how strictly AstCd2 interpreted the question... the straw itself isn't a joke, just what Michiru fails to do with it.

Ask a general question and be condemned to receive a general answer =P
Personally, I thought the line was pretty clear, but people seem to be coming up with some pretty twisted arguments.
Surely no one thinks of 'food' first when a straw is mentioned?

For reference purposes: I didn't consider the straw to be associated with food, given its purpose.
Nor was it a running joke (for the reasons given above).

Haeleth
2005-03-30, 02:46
This is like pulling teeth... ^^;;;

Okay, taking AstCd2's desperate plea that we consider all the possibilities and eliminate the impossible, I've gone through all the Kanon and AIR CGs again. I'm assuming that he's using the standard definition for CG (a picture that can be viewed in CG mode), as if he's including backgrounds and tachi-e on the grounds that they're all "computer graphics" then he's going to be lynched. :p

The requirements that the item not belong to anyone at Yuuichi's school, appear outdoors, and not be food or clothing, seem to rule out Kanon completely: I can't find anything that fits those conditions in Makoto's or Ayu's CGs, nor in Shiori's while she's off school. The present-day requirement rules out all of Planetarian. That leaves AIR.

Within AIR, again ruling out food, clothes, natural objects, metal objects, and so on, and limiting it to things I can believe most of us are likely to have bought or had bought for us, I can see only two possibilities:
<ul> Kano's balloon
Minagi's straw[/list]
The latter seems more likely, but we can still try the former if it fails. And I can always go back and use my magic post-editing skills to remove a few earlier questions in an emergency. :P

At the risk of making myself sound silly, therefore:

Question: is it the straw?

And if not, why not?

GreatSaintLouis
2005-03-30, 03:01
Way to take the initiative. ^__^

I think a lot of us have gotten to that inevitable point in 20 questions where we begin to dwell too hard to the nuances of the questions and are thinking far more than is required - I know I am. AstCd2 did a very good job on this question though.

On the subject of Kano's balloon: While I've not played the game, the anime only features the balloon in the flashbacks of when Kano was little; would this technically be against the whole part about the CG taking place present day, or was that more to establish the time period as being recent, as opposed to feudal Japan or post-apocalyptic Earth?

AstCd2
2005-03-30, 03:08
Question: is it the straw?
And if not, why not?

No, it's not the straw, though that does indeed fit with the criteria.
As such, I'm afraid I don't have a better reason than 'it doesn't happen to be the item I picked'.
(Though I must say, I'm not sure how many of you guys have purchased a straw before (admittedly, however, I have)).

Regarding the balloon:
There are actually two balloons appearing in Air; one from a flashback, and one in the 'present day'. I don't think the one in the flashback has a CG, though (do feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

Now, for your final answer...
(cue tense music)

1. Does it require a source of energy for it to carry out its normal functions? --- No
2. Is it smaller then a microwave? --- Yes
3. Is it organic? --- No
4. Is it the subject of a running joke in the scenario(s) it appears in? --- No
5. Is it man-made? --- Yes
6. Is it Shiori's knife? --- No
7. Is it owned by a character who attends the same school as Yuuichi? --- No
8. Does the CG in which it appears occur indoors? --- No
9. Is it made of metal? --- No
10. Is it wearable? --- No
11. Is the item related to food in any way? --- No
12. Is it Kazuya's water pistol? --- No
13. Is it a liquid? --- No
14. Does the CG take place in the present day? --- Yes
15. Is it Minagi's straw? --- No

Pass:
1. Does it (or could it) carry or hold other objects in it? --- Yes/No

Hints:
1. It's an inexpensive object that you're very likely to have purchased at least once before.
2. It appears in a CG.

Haeleth
2005-03-30, 03:43
Balloon CGs (both could potentially be considered to contain spoilers, so beware):
In flashback: FGKA04 (http://haeleth.net/temp/fgka04.jpg)
In present day: FGKA15B (http://haeleth.net/temp/fgka15b.jpg)

I'm not quite so happy with the balloon as an answer; it doesn't fit very well with the "Yes/No" to "could it hold other objects in it" (unless you count filling it with gas or liquid). But it is *takes a deep breath* inert, small, inorganic, not a joke, man-made, not Shiori's knife, not owned by a Kanon schoolgirl, outdoors, not metal, not wearable, not food, not a water pistol, not a liquid, seen in the present day, not the straw, arguably capable of holding other objects, inexpensive, present in a CG, and fragile.

So unless anyone can suggest anything else that fits...?

Misu
2005-03-30, 07:16
Well, for the balloon holding other objects...
I remember when I was younger, at fairs and parties and stuff, they used to have balloons with dollar bills or small types of papers in there...

So in that way, it could theoretically hold stuff in it.

New
2005-03-30, 10:13
But you normally wouldn't.

Haeleth
2005-03-30, 14:10
In the absence of any other suggestions, however, I think we really are just going to have to grit our teeth, guess the balloon, find out what utterly obvious alternative we missed, and move on to a new and hopefully less impossible round. ^^;

New
2005-03-30, 15:00
Which I have dibs on.

"Is it the balloon?"

And you know darn well which one I'm talking about.

AstCd2
2005-03-30, 17:35
Yes, it's the balloon.
(pachi pachi pachi)

The magic hash word was simply
Balloon

For reference, I interpreted the 'can you put something in it?' question literally, though as pointed out, balloons aren't actually filled with anything other than air.

Next question goes to whoever posts first.

New
2005-03-30, 17:39
MINE!

IN my case, you're allowed to ask the general questions that narrow greatly (Like "Is it related to"), but..

1. You get 15 questions only.

2. No hints.

Limited to Kanon, Air, and Planetarian.

The MD5 is...

300d665fa0acb03eb34069bf4c3ab8e2

BEGIN!

Spiritsnare
2005-03-30, 18:01
For reference, I interpreted the 'can you put something in it?' question literally, though as pointed out, balloons aren't actually filled with anything other than air.

AIR. ;) How about water balloons?

edit: Is it in a CG?

New
2005-03-30, 18:18
Is it in a CG?


...

*Checks*

No.

1. Is it in a CG? No.

Slipgate
2005-03-30, 18:44
Would it traditionally be found in a school/school setting?

New
2005-03-30, 19:06
Would it traditionally be found in a school/school setting?

Yes.

1. Is it in a CG? No.

2. Would it traditionally be found in a school/school setting? Yes.

Nephillim
2005-03-30, 23:23
A helpful, if not unoriginal question:

Is any part of it derived from/constructed out of metal?

New
2005-03-31, 00:29
A helpful, if not unoriginal question:

Is any part of it derived from/constructed out of metal?

No.

1. Is it in a CG? No.

2. Would it traditionally be found in a school/school setting? Yes.

3. Is any part of it derived from/constructed out of metal? No.

Haeleth
2005-03-31, 02:43
Is it from Kanon? (You did say we were allowed that sort of question, right?)

New
2005-03-31, 09:10
Is it from Kanon? (You did say we were allowed that sort of question, right?)

Is that second part another question? ^_~

Yes.

1. Is it in a CG? No.

2. Would it traditionally be found in a school/school setting? Yes.

3. Is any part of it derived from/constructed out of metal? No.

4. Is it from Kanon? Yes.

AstCd2
2005-03-31, 17:25
Discussion
A list of things it is not, then:

- Any character other than Kuze or Ishibashi.
- Food other than school lunch (all of the hand-made lunches are in CGs)
- Most character-specific objects; Mai's sword, Shiori's knife, Makoto's bell, Ayu's doll/bag, Nayuki's alarm clock and so on.

I suspect that it may be a book of some description, such as the notebook Yuuichi leaves behind at school or the novel that Mishio-tan reads.

New
2005-03-31, 19:08
For the record, I count whatever you get in CG mode as CG. Thus, when you beat the game, if it's in the record, it's a CG. If not, then it's not a CG. Then again, I'm using expereance from like, Snow Drop, and Air's CG database, where it only shows big, custom pictures, not the sprites they overuse.

Haeleth
2005-04-05, 15:25
Question: is it made of paper?

New
2005-04-05, 15:58
Question: is it made of paper?

No.

1. Is it in a CG? No.

2. Would it traditionally be found in a school/school setting? Yes.

3. Is any part of it derived from/constructed out of metal? No.

4. Is it from Kanon? Yes.

5. Is it made of paper? No.

AstCd2
2005-04-06, 01:16
Discussion
Is it time for the ever-controversial "Is it organic" question?

Haeleth
2005-04-06, 01:37
Discussion
We haven't asked anything about size yet, either...

Nephillim
2005-04-06, 01:44
I guess it's ok. Its the kind of question that narrows the search down after all.

Personal Thoughts: Unless we expand the circle of games to draw content from, sooner or later we'll run into a shortage of items. Limiting the number of questions doesn't really help once we come to the point where people are only willing to give an allowance of 5 or so questions.....

Slipgate
2005-04-06, 06:20
That would be when the game would naturally wind down, of course. :P

Slipgate

Haeleth
2005-04-07, 15:02
Let's keep this moving. I think we can afford to ask both questions at this point, both being pretty useful:

Question: is it organic? (Let's stick with the definition we've been using so far, where plastic counts as inorganic.)

Question: is it smaller than a microwave oven?

New
2005-04-07, 17:42
Let's keep this moving. I think we can afford to ask both questions at this point, both being pretty useful:

Question: is it organic? (Let's stick with the definition we've been using so far, where plastic counts as inorganic.)

Question: is it smaller than a microwave oven?

Yes.

No.

1. Is it in a CG? No.

2. Would it traditionally be found in a school/school setting? Yes.

3. Is any part of it derived from/constructed out of metal? No.

4. Is it from Kanon? Yes.

5. Is it made of paper? No.

6. Is it organic? Yes.

7. Is it Smaller then a microwave oven? No.

AstCd2
2005-04-07, 18:11
Discussion
The only things that come to mind are the tree (or stump) and Shiori's snowman... but the tree is probably in a CG (and unlikely to be in 'a school', as opposed to the 'school' in Kanon), and the snowman isn't organic.

Addenum:
It's not the bench, either; that has metal in it.

GreatSaintLouis
2005-04-07, 18:17
Question: is it smaller than a microwave oven?
I love how a microwave has become a standard of size in these questions. :-D

Discussion
The organic flag leaves us with things made of wood, foodstuffs, and things like plants. It could also mean people, although the majority of the characters in the game also appear in CGs - wouldn't the only two left over be Kitagawa and the Big Man On Campus student council guy (forgot the name)? I haven't played the game all the way through to the end, so I'm not entirely sure who shows in a CG and who doesn't.

AstCd2
2005-04-07, 18:29
Discussion
The non-CG Kanon-associated food:
1. Strawberry Sundae
2. Everything Yuuichi buys for Mai
3. Mystery jam

Shall we ask 'Is it a person?', or a more general question like 'is it resistant to being vigorously beaten with a golf club?'

Keep in mind that it's unlikely to be furniture, as almost all furniture contains metal.

...but what else would you expect to find of that size at a school?
Perhaps it is the tree after all. Can someone confirm whether it's in a CG or not?

New
2005-04-07, 19:33
Question: is it smaller than a microwave oven?
I love how a microwave has become a standard of size in these questions. :-D

Discussion
The organic flag leaves us with things made of wood, foodstuffs, and things like plants. It could also mean people, although the majority of the characters in the game also appear in CGs - wouldn't the only two left over be Kitagawa and the Big Man On Campus student council guy (forgot the name)? I haven't played the game all the way through to the end, so I'm not entirely sure who shows in a CG and who doesn't.

*Akiko smile*

You forgot to mention that girl that asks about Shiori.

Haeleth
2005-04-08, 02:11
Perhaps it is the tree after all. Can someone confirm whether it's in a CG or not?
FGAY16A, FGAY16B, and FGAY16C. Unless you were thinking of a different tree.

the majority of the characters in the game also appear in CGs - wouldn't the only two left over be Kitagawa and the Big Man On Campus student council guy (forgot the name)?

Kuze. Then there's Sayuri's fan club, Mai's un-fan-club, Ishibashi, the headmaster... Shiori's classmate, as New says... anyone else of note?

The only ones that you would find in any school would be Kuze-as-student-councillor, Ishibashi-as-tutor/homeroom-teacher, and the nameless headmaster, however.

I think at this point we need to find out if what we seek is a human...

AstCd2
2005-04-08, 02:44
Kuze. Then there's Sayuri's fan club, Mai's un-fan-club, Ishibashi, the headmaster... Shiori's classmate, as New says... anyone else of note?


またみっしタソが除け者扱いかよ! 許すまじ!
Er... what I mean to say is, don't forget Mishio-tan's classmate either =P

If we're to determine whether we're after a human, is there perhaps a more efficient question we could be asking, given the clues so far?

AstCd2
2005-04-09, 21:51
Going by the 2ch thread, the game seems to grind to a complete stop if there are any pauses whatsoever, so I suppose I'd better give it a bit of a push along:

Question
Is it a person?

New
2005-04-09, 23:16
Question
Is it a person?

Yes.

I think it's over already. How many suspects, and how many guesses?

1. Is it in a CG? No.

2. Would it traditionally be found in a school/school setting? Yes.

3. Is any part of it derived from/constructed out of metal? No.

4. Is it from Kanon? Yes.

5. Is it made of paper? No.

6. Is it organic? Yes.

7. Is it Smaller then a microwave oven? No.

8. Is it a person? Yes.

Keisuke
2005-04-09, 23:34
Question
Male?

New
2005-04-10, 01:46
Question
Male?

... I'm gonna assume "Is it male?" As the question, not just "Male."

No, you magnificient bastard. No, it's not male.

1. Is it in a CG? No.

2. Would it traditionally be found in a school/school setting? Yes.

3. Is any part of it derived from/constructed out of metal? No.

4. Is it from Kanon? Yes.

5. Is it made of paper? No.

6. Is it organic? Yes.

7. Is it Smaller then a microwave oven? No.

8. Is it a person? Yes.

9. Is it male? No.

AstCd2
2005-04-10, 01:58
Given that Mishio-tan has a CG in the all ages version, it seems we'll have to assume that the only candidates are the nameless 'classmate' characters.

Just to make sure, though:

Question
Is the character's name explicitly given in Kanon?

New
2005-04-10, 02:07
Given that Mishio-tan has a CG in the all ages version, it seems we'll have to assume that the only candidates are the nameless 'classmate' characters.

Just to make sure, though:

Question
Is the character's name explicitly given in Kanon?

Yes.

1. Is it in a CG? No.

2. Would it traditionally be found in a school/school setting? Yes.

3. Is any part of it derived from/constructed out of metal? No.

4. Is it from Kanon? Yes.

5. Is it made of paper? No.

6. Is it organic? Yes.

7. Is it Smaller then a microwave oven? No.

8. Is it a person? Yes.

9. Is it male? No.

10. Is the character's name explicitly given in Kanon? Yes.

And yet, I still have a chance of winning by confusion amongst the ranks.

AstCd2
2005-04-10, 02:39
To recap:

Female Characters in Kanon:
Nayuki
Ayu
Makoto
Shiori
Mai

Sayuri
Kaori
Mishio
Akiko


Unnamed

Various Characters' Mothers
Shiori's Classmate
Mishio's Classmate
Various Sayuri-fans


Any ideas?

Haeleth
2005-04-10, 02:59
If Amano's CG doesn't come in the adult version, New may not be counting it. So I'm not sure we can rule her out that easily.

That doesn't apply to the other main characters, obviously, nor to Sayuri or Kaori, who definitely have CGs in all versions. Akiko we can probably rule out as not being school-related. And all the rest seem to be nameless.

Other options... Bush Saitoh? Sayuri's unnamed classmate says "I knew a girl with that nickname back at primary school", so she might count if New's being really devious.

Also, I wonder if any of the unnamed characters are given names in the anime? I believe you left that option open in your last question, AstCd2.

AstCd2
2005-04-10, 03:26
If Amano's CG doesn't come in the adult version, New may not be counting it. So I'm not sure we can rule her out that easily.


I'm going to be rather irritated if "Is it in a CG?" was somehow turned into "Is it in a CG in the original version of the game?".


Other options... Bush Saitoh? Sayuri's unnamed classmate says "I knew a girl with that nickname back at primary school", so she might count if New's being really devious.


I can't quite recall the particular conversation where Saitou is mentioned, but if I remember my neta correctly, the Saitou from Kanon and Clannad (if they are indeed the same person) is male. KEYな大辞典 and 2ch seem to support that conclusion, too.


Also, I wonder if any of the unnamed characters are given names in the anime? I believe you left that option open in your last question, AstCd2.


To the best of my recollection, no.
There'd probably be some references to it on 2ch or the other Key resources if they saw fit to introduce a new name via the TV series, even in passing.