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View Full Version : Your opinion on the H scenes.. (and Air squeeing in general)


Tabi
2004-11-11, 13:51
Okay, the primary reason for this post is to squee about Air, since I just got it a coupla days ago (christmas present... why wait though XD;; *impatient*), but barely anyone I know has heard of it or knows what I'm on about when I mention it ;_;

Anyway. I played through it with CR's english patch, to which I now feel indebted ^^. I was a little unsure about playing it with a partial patch, but then I figured that the... is it 20% that's done? I figured that 20% would be 20% more than I know (I could probably recognize about 20 kanji tops XD;), so played it with that. Admittedly I first got Kano's scenario and the translation ran out pretty quickly for that, and with her I couldn't get an ending anyway (I musta sat there for an hour or so replaying through my most recent save back then to do something, -anything- to change whatever I'd done wrong ^,^. Fail.)... I was like, okay, so the second time through I decided to be as determined as possible to go for Misuzu, since I knew that most was translated for her.

So I managed that (managed to avoid ye dreaded "I decided to stop sponging off Haruko and Misuzu and leave. Blargh." 'ending' \o/), and it's amazing how my opinions changed over the path of playing... when I first started playing I wanted to hit Yukito (ass *WHACK*), and from what I'd seen/heard of the Air girls, I'd expected them to be different somehow... I didn't expect Misuzu to be so childlike (though obviously...), and I thought Minagi would be less spacy ^_^... however, over Misuzu's path it went from me being like "okay, you're ditzy, I get the point", to Yukito actually turning into a decent person in my eyes, and then it was like... no wait, I really do actually like Misuzu here... LOVE FOR MISUZU

So it went on, and I played through the last part of her path with near-expectant tears in my eyes, I'll admit ^^. Then it goes on, and on... annnnnd then you reach the H scene.

(Yes, I'm getting to the point now)

Okay, maybe it's a bit of a moot point to bring up, since a lot of people's opinions are that the girls of Air, Kanon, etc seem much too pure and innocent for such things to happen, it spoils their view of them, etc... and admittedly even I was a little "O_o" at the prospect of Misuzu having H scenes when I began, since she's established as being so childlike, and everything... but... I don't know, I don't know if there's any way to word how it felt without sounding like a "My entire life is the computer and I fall in love with computer-generated graphics" sort of thing (XD;;), but... while okay it may be kinda weird to have these girls in H scenes, destroys the pure image of them in our minds and stuff... surely the point of the games (or one of them anyway) is to build up a kind of mental relationship with these girls, to get to know them and feel for them (and damn if I wasn't feeling for Misuzu by that point)... surely the H scenes are there as like... the deepening of the 'relationship' (as it is), kinda of... dammit, I can't explain it. Maybe somebody else knows what I mean, how I mean it?

I can't really speak as far as for Air, but... I guess one thing that does sort of creep me about the H scenes in Kanon is just their expressions during it... the girls always look so scared and unsure, and okay, it's their first time, they're not gonna be all "C'MERE YUUICHI/YUKITO *HORN*", but... happy fun bodily unity thing going on, smile a bit?

I guess I can't help but wonder what the scene with Misuzu would have been like translated, but it was enough to understand what happened before and afterward and have the feelings there... but having played quite a few hentai games before, makes me wonder how the dialogue and stuff is handled in Kanon/Air/more tasteful games than, y'know, 'Do You Like Horny Bunnies' and stuff, where you can't believe the girls have managed to get -this- far remaining virgins...

Still, I felt more for Misuzu than I did for Kano despite seeing Kano's scenes first... I suppose it's because I understood a lot more of what was going on with Misuzu, really. With Kano it was more "She's happy! She's sad. She's blushing! She's happy. She's still happy! She's sad."... aaa, western culture needs to embrace these games, they rock, dammit.

Couldn't help but notice though, in the music room... not all the songs from the CD are there? The one I noticed most not being there was that vocal that isn't the OP song or the ED song... I've listened to the music a lot these past few days XD almost considered taking the disk to school with me to listen on the way there and back, but... aa, it's a bit precious for that. Still, I figured that other song would be an insert song at some point (was sort of expecting it at some point to the end of Misuzu's scenario)... when does it come up? If it's a spoiler then it's okay, but some idea of what scenario it pops up in would be nice ^^. Such a pretty song. Hell, they're -all- pretty songs... I can't get sick of Misuzu's theme, especially. Minagi's theme suprised me though, from her appearence I thought her theme tune would be a little less... sparkly, I suppose (ahaha, and just as I start typing about Minagi, her music comes up on my CD player. Mina~gii~). I'll admit, I worried when Mi... Michiru? The little hyper girl, when she first showed up. I don't want any H scenes with her in, something like that WOULD disturb me XO

It was hard to get Misuzu's scenario, and even now I don't know if there are things I did wrong and if there are other endings for her (I only got like... five or six of her entire CG collection, though I have a good proportion of Kano's gallery filled)... and I have no idea how I'd go about getting Minagi's scenario XD;;;

Haruko rocks. I'd rather have Akiko as a mother, but... Haruko rocks.

Anyone know if there are any Air artbooks or anything out there? JPQueen has a bunch of Kanon manga and stuff up (which I plan to nab when I'm next ordering stuff for christmas), but... when I did a search for Air it came up with a whole bunch of unrelated things, I suppose because it's such a common word ^^;. Of course, there might not be anything out there to search for. Anyone got any info on things like that? I'd quite like some Air things to look at while I sit happily in bed~ (plus I'm on more of an Air kick at the moment than I am Kanon XD)

I want to make avatars with "You need Air to breathe" on them <3. Just a random little point there, but... I thought it'd make a cool game slogan or something XD

Hum, I think that's all I was going to say. I wouldn't want to start yet another thread suddenly, I seem to be doing that often these days XD;;. But, I needed somewhere to let all my gushing on Air loose <3. Sorry ^^;

Oh yeah. Anyone know who'll be up for the voices in the upcoming Air anime/film/etc? I saw a movie preview thingie, and Yukito's voice was rawr~. Kinda recognize it. Not sure where to look to find out about voices. Oh my, if Mitsuaki Madono was in it... (random, he's not going to be in it. But I'd salivate if it was)

Haeleth
2004-11-11, 14:54
I guess I can't help but wonder what the scene with Misuzu would have been like translated
Lame. Key's writing is normally pretty good for games, but their H scenes are awful. I won't go into details in case there are kids reading this (although with a subject like this they jolly well shouldn't be), but basically they go to extraordinary lengths to avoid actually referring to anything directly. It's all "my thing" and "those two swellings on her chest". Really.

Couldn't help but notice though, in the music room... not all the songs from the CD are there? The one I noticed most not being there was that vocal that isn't the OP song or the ED song...
You unlock more songs in the music room as you progress through the game. You don't get access to them all till you clear the whole thing. I guess Key didn't think anyone would think of playing the CD normally. :p

The song you're thinking of is "Aozora", which is played in the climax at the end of the final scenario "AIR". You'll get to it in a year or so. ;)

I'll admit, I worried when Mi... Michiru? The little hyper girl, when she first showed up. I don't want any H scenes with her in, something like that WOULD disturb me XO
Fortunately Key don't do loli... well, I guess most of their girls tend that way, actually, but they don't do really underage stuff. Michiru stays pure, fear not.

It was hard to get Misuzu's scenario, and even now I don't know if there are things I did wrong and if there are other endings for her (I only got like... five or six of her entire CG collection, though I have a good proportion of Kano's gallery filled)...
If you saw the credits, you got the proper ending for Misuzu in "Dream". Most of her CGs don't appear till "AIR", and you'll have to win Kano and Minagi and play through "Summer" before you can even unlock "AIR".

Oh yeah. Anyone know who'll be up for the voices in the upcoming Air anime/film/etc?
For info on that in English I'd go to Zalas' site (http://www.cjas.org/~zalas/AIR/moin.cgi/AIR). Scroll down and there's a "movie cast" section.

2004-11-11, 16:24
Anyway. I played through it with CR's english patch, to which I now feel indebted ^^. I was a little unsure about playing it with a partial patch, but then I figured that the... is it 20% that's done? I figured that 20% would be 20% more than I know (I could probably recognize about 20 kanji tops XD;), so played it with that. Admittedly I first got Kano's scenario and the translation ran out pretty quickly for that, and with her I couldn't get an ending anyway (I musta sat there for an hour or so replaying through my most recent save back then to do something, -anything- to change whatever I'd done wrong ^,^. Fail.)... I was like, okay, so the second time through I decided to be as determined as possible to go for Misuzu, since I knew that most was translated for her.


Kano's scenario didn't feel as powerful as Misuzu's to me (I managed to worm my way through with the Chinese script). Of course,

gur unccl raqvat naq Lhxvgb tvivat hc ba uvf qernz "gb svaq gur jvatrq bar"
-ROT 13, for people who haven't played through.

just didn't feel like a satisfactory conclusion to me. Ah well, was expecting some tragic-climax-end thing. :P


Okay, maybe it's a bit of a moot point to bring up, since a lot of people's opinions are that the girls of Air, Kanon, etc seem much too pure and innocent for such things to happen, it spoils their view of them, etc... and admittedly even I was a little "O_o" at the prospect of Misuzu having H scenes when I began, since she's established as being so childlike, and everything... but... I don't know, I don't know if there's any way to word how it felt without sounding like a "My entire life is the computer and I fall in love with computer-generated graphics" sort of thing (XD;;), but... while okay it may be kinda weird to have these girls in H scenes, destroys the pure image of them in our minds and stuff... surely the point of the games (or one of them anyway) is to build up a kind of mental relationship with these girls, to get to know them and feel for them (and damn if I wasn't feeling for Misuzu by that point)... surely the H scenes are there as like... the deepening of the 'relationship' (as it is), kinda of... dammit, I can't explain it. Maybe somebody else knows what I mean, how I mean it?



From what I've been hearing, most people preferred the game WITHOUT the H-scenes so its nothing new. Then again, thats why the All-Ages version was made. Anyone know's if the Seen.txt for that one's interchangable with the 18+ version? I seem to be able to run things fine, but I've got a feeling the game would crash where the H-scenes are 'supposed' to be......


I can't really speak as far as for Air, but... I guess one thing that does sort of creep me about the H scenes in Kanon is just their expressions during it... the girls always look so scared and unsure, and okay, it's their first time, they're not gonna be all "C'MERE YUUICHI/YUKITO *HORN*", but... happy fun bodily unity thing going on, smile a bit?


*tries to analyse this*
I'm guessing that Japanese (and maybe the world's perverts :D) like their girls shy and afraid. Maybe it reinforces the image of their purity......

...... and they take pride in the EXACT amount of purity they despoil. Don't ask......

And......um....... happy, fun, body unity thing? RIGHT..............


Still, I felt more for Misuzu than I did for Kano despite seeing Kano's scenes first... I suppose it's because I understood a lot more of what was going on with Misuzu, really. With Kano it was more "She's happy! She's sad. She's blushing! She's happy. She's still happy! She's sad."... aaa, western culture needs to embrace these games, they rock, dammit.


Thats the unfortunate thing about not understanding the language. Maybe I'll pick up formal Japanese lessons after Cambridge releases its hold on my life so I can do a better job with the Chinese translation, and provide you guys with something to fiddle around with till zalas AstCd2 gets cracking.


Couldn't help but notice though, in the music room... not all the songs from the CD are there? The one I noticed most not being there was that vocal that isn't the OP song or the ED song... I've listened to the music a lot these past few days XD almost considered taking the disk to school with me to listen on the way there and back, but... aa, it's a bit precious for that. Still, I figured that other song would be an insert song at some point (was sort of expecting it at some point to the end of Misuzu's scenario)... when does it come up? If it's a spoiler then it's okay, but some idea of what scenario it pops up in would be nice ^^. Such a pretty song. Hell, they're -all- pretty songs... I can't get sick of Misuzu's theme, especially. Minagi's theme suprised me though, from her appearence I thought her theme tune would be a little less... sparkly, I suppose (ahaha, and just as I start typing about Minagi, her music comes up on my CD player. Mina~gii~).


On the topic of music, why don't you make another copy of AIR to lug around? It IS legal for you to make backups of these things if you're the owner of an original copy.
夏影 was the one that hooked me into AIR, though 鳥の詩 was a far superior song. Guess I just like fluid songs, repetitive or not :P
Anyway, grab the Piano collections of Air/Kanon ("Refeel"). Thats one's heckuva CD, though alittle on the expensive side for just 10 songs (2000 yen) ^^;


It was hard to get Misuzu's scenario, and even now I don't know if there are things I did wrong and if there are other endings for her (I only got like... five or six of her entire CG collection, though I have a good proportion of Kano's gallery filled)... and I have no idea how I'd go about getting Minagi's scenario XD;;;


Kano and Minagi's scenarios end in Dream. They don't play any significant parts in Summer or AIR. Hence, you'll get all the CGs from playing through Dream alone.


Haruko rocks. I'd rather have Akiko as a mother, but... Haruko rocks.


Seconded


Anyone know if there are any Air artbooks or anything out there? JPQueen has a bunch of Kanon manga and stuff up (which I plan to nab when I'm next ordering stuff for christmas), but... when I did a search for Air it came up with a whole bunch of unrelated things, I suppose because it's such a common word ^^;. Of course, there might not be anything out there to search for. Anyone got any info on things like that? I'd quite like some Air things to look at while I sit happily in bed~ (plus I'm on more of an Air kick at the moment than I am Kanon XD)


From what I've been hearing, there IS an AIR artbook on sale. Not too sure who the publisher was though.......

Keisuke
2004-11-11, 16:58
From what I've been hearing, there IS an AIR artbook on sale. Not too sure who the publisher was though.......

You are right Enter Brain did release AIR artbook. It's really hard to find though.

I really don't know if AIR's H-scene was funny, but I did laugh at Kanon H-scene scripts. You have to admit... The way Yuuich describes it is funny.

K
2004-11-11, 17:06
I guess I can't help but wonder what the scene with Misuzu would have been like translated
Lame. Key's writing is normally pretty good for games, but their H scenes are awful. I won't go into details in case there are kids reading this (although with a subject like this they jolly well shouldn't be), but basically they go to extraordinary lengths to avoid actually referring to anything directly. It's all "my thing" and "those two swellings on her chest". Really.
Holy crap. Are you going to be "fixing" that for the translation, or is it going to be translated in all its goofiness?

Haeleth
2004-11-11, 17:58
Anyone know's if the Seen.txt for that one's interchangable with the 18+ version? I seem to be able to run things fine, but I've got a feeling the game would crash where the H-scenes are 'supposed' to be...
Nope - it'll crash when it comes across one of the new CGs they put in for the all-age version.

Just hold down <ctrl> when the screen gets too pink, you'll be fine. :p

Maybe I'll pick up formal Japanese lessons after Cambridge releases its hold on my life...
Dear me... you must have done something really awful in your previous life.</dark blue>

Assuming you mean Cambridge, Darkest East Anglia, not Cambridge, Mass., that is.

Holy crap. Are you going to be "fixing" that for the translation, or is it going to be translated in all its goofiness?
I've toned it down (up?) a little, but most of the original awfulness is still there. It's the translator's job to preserve the authentic experience! :p

AstCd2
2004-11-11, 18:52
Gah, I got to this thread late. Seeing how everyone's already given you the answers, all I can offer you are my opinions ^^;;.


Admittedly I first got Kano's scenario and the translation ran out pretty quickly for that, and with her I couldn't get an ending anyway (I musta sat there for an hour or so replaying through my most recent save back then to do something, -anything- to change whatever I'd done wrong ^,^. Fail.)... I was like, okay, so the second time through I decided to be as determined as possible to go for Misuzu, since I knew that most was translated for her.

Like all the Key games, I think the main heroine's scenario works best when you play it last. Of course, I don't suppose there's much of a choice at this point. As for not getting the bad endings, you'll find (in the *cough* eventual English patch) that it's generally pretty easy to stay alive if you show an intention to stay in town and with the girl in your storyline. Surprisingly enough, you can be pretty mean to Misuzu without any consequence, especially earlier on in the game.


surely the H scenes are there as like... the deepening of the 'relationship' (as it is), kinda of... dammit, I can't explain it. Maybe somebody else knows what I mean, how I mean it?

I have the feeling that the Hscenes were left in as a renai gaming formality purely to meet the conventions of the genre, given the obvious lack of effort in the writing.


But... happy fun bodily unity thing going on, smile a bit?


As a general rule of thumb amongst H-games, no one ever seems to look like they're having fun during sex. Pots of virtual ink have been spilled over the topic of sexuality in Japanese culture, but it suffices to say that it's probably intentional.


Still, I felt more for Misuzu than I did for Kano despite seeing Kano's scenes first... I suppose it's because I understood a lot more of what was going on with Misuzu, really. With Kano it was more "She's happy! She's sad. She's blushing! She's happy. She's still happy! She's sad."... aaa, western culture needs to embrace these games, they rock, dammit.


I've always felt Kano's story was a little thin on the ground. On the plus side, though, it features the inimitable Dr. K, and it's worth playing through her story just to see her pick on Yukito.


and I have no idea how I'd go about getting Minagi's scenario XD;;;

You can get to Minagi's scenario by moving out of Misuzu's house, though you do have to make sure Yukito moves to the station rather than leave town. Needless to say, you have to run into Minagi a lot.

At the risk of incurring Haeleth's wrath, I have to say I didn't really think much of her scenario. There are a lot of days near the end where next to nothing is established, making for a rather drawn-out story.


Oh yeah. Anyone know who'll be up for the voices in the upcoming Air anime/film/etc?

To cut a long story short, they're the same ones who voiced the console versions of the game. It's a pretty high quality cast as seiyuu go.

zalas
2004-11-12, 01:03
Yeah, all the older counterparts (Kano's older sister Hijiri, Kanna's more experienced servant Uraha and Misuzu's mom Haruko) are played by the three goddesses ~_~;

Keisuke
2004-11-12, 01:29
and I have no idea how I'd go about getting Minagi's scenario XD;;;

You can get to Minagi's scenario by moving out of Misuzu's house, though you do have to make sure Yukito moves to the station rather than leave town. Needless to say, you have to run into Minagi a lot.


Asuto chin has explained very well here.
However, there's one more thing you have to be extra careful though. You have to be nice to Kano as well during the progress. If you don't, game just finishes off with bad ending even if you were being a good guy to Minagi.

Key was being a little 'evil' on this selecting Minagi and Kano scenario in AIR IMO. As you progress the story, you will reach the point where you have to 'dump' one of the girl (for example, by breaking the lunch promise....). If you dump Kano, then the story flows to the Minagi's story. On the other hand, if you dump Minagi (Which was very painful for me to do back then ^^;;), you get to see the Kano's story.

I like Minagi's scenario best in the game AIR. The reason why I like so much about it is becasue it is the most completed single story beside the Summer scenario. Kano's scenario is definitly the weakest. Misuzu's Dream scenario gives a empty feeling because it technically is not a complete story without AIR and Summer scenario.
It is also unique that Minagi's scenario has a two different ending; 'dark' ending and true ending. I personally liked dark ending more for its shocking plot twist(NO. IT'S NOT BECAUSE OF THE H-SCENE XP), but Minagi and Michiru's farewell scene in the true ending was definitly great too.

Weave
2004-11-12, 05:46
You are right Enter Brain did release AIR artbook. It's really hard to find though.

I own it. It's very good. I have the paradigm artbook, but I won't open it till I've finished the game completely as to not ruin it. The anime and movie will probably do that though.

Haeleth
2004-11-12, 16:59
I've always felt Kano's story was a little thin on the ground. On the plus side, though, it features the inimitable Dr. K, and it's worth playing through her story just to see her pick on Yukito.
And Potato! Don't forget Potato!

Kano's story had potential, but it does drag a bit, and the resolution wasn't nearly as interesting as some of the theories I'd come up with as I played. The Shiraho bit was interesting, though.

At the risk of incurring Haeleth's wrath, I have to say I didn't really think much of her scenario. There are a lot of days near the end where next to nothing is established, making for a rather drawn-out story.
*bans AstCd2*
...just kidding.

It's no secret she's my favourite AIR girl, but I'll readily concede that the pacing gets a bit off in her story too. It's a bit of a problem in all AIR's scenarios, actually, they all peak too soon and then drag for a while before things get interesting again.

But I'll forgive her anything for "ohakonbanchi-wa". And Michiru, of course...

みちる 「テゴメにされちゃう!」
実凪 「・・・されちゃいますか」
往人 「するか!」

クラシック。

*pops AIR back in drive and stops work for a week*

2004-11-12, 18:46
And Potato! Don't forget Potato!


Potato wasn't kicked enough. I wonder how they'd anime-erise it. Should be some sight ^^;


Kano's story had potential, but it does drag a bit, and the resolution wasn't nearly as interesting as some of the theories I'd come up with as I played. The Shiraho bit was interesting, though.


But wouldn't make too much sense till you reach Summer......
You're right, zalas (or was it Asuto-chin?)..... Summer's REALLY painful if you have to dig out information on the terminology. Nevertheless, I shall press on! ^^
By the way, whats a 翼人? Im guessing its some religous position.

*Copies from unedited script*

Ryuuya: "Karatenjiku" are called “Hoyoku”, sometimes called “Fuuji” and “Kumari” a long time ago.

Need help on these terms, if you guys don't mind ^^. I'm guessing their some kind of honorifics from the Kanji, but I'd rather be certain


みちる 「テゴメにされちゃう!」
実凪 「・・・されちゃいますか」
<span title="Yukito: 'What do you take me for?!'">往人 「するか!」


Well....... its this seemingly "air-headed" (for lack of a better term) attitude that makes her likeable :P I'll have to side with you on this one: Minagi's GENUINELY likeable.

Treewaller
2004-11-12, 19:01
I may be a bit naive here, but this is how I like to believe Key's product line came to be:

1) Key made Kanon (100% H-scene free)
2) Visual Arts said "HEY! We're not releasing a game without H-scenes!!"
3) Key slapped together some H-scenes, obviously not putting as much effort into it as the rest of the game
4) Kanon became popular and a TV show was approved
5) The TV show presented the story H-scene free, as it was meant to be
6) After the success of the show, VA let Key release an H-scene free "director's cut" of the game
7) The all-age version became uber popular and was ported to game consoles
8) When their next game (Air) was finished, VA said "You can release your all-age version, but you've gotta release an adult version too!!"
9) The all-age version proved to be more popular again, as well as getting ported to consoles
10) Finally, with the release of their 3rd game (Clannad), VA said "Okay, you win, we won't force any more crappy H-scenes into your games"

Any chance I'm right? Cause the idea that Key didn't want H-scenes in their games is the only thing that's making'em a respectable company in my mind...

AstCd2
2004-11-12, 19:01
Potato wasn't kicked enough. I wonder how they'd anime-erise it. Should be some sight ^^;


Poor thing. Key's mascot animals always seem to receive some rough treatment.


By the way, whats a 翼人? Im guessing its some religous position.


The 翼人 are the people with wings, like Kanna and that certain other mildly-spoilerish character in Summer.


*Copies from unedited script*

Ryuuya: "Karatenjiku" are called “Hoyoku”, sometimes called “Fuuji” and “Kumari” a long time ago.

Need help on these terms, if you guys don't mind ^^. I'm guessing their some kind of honorifics from the Kanji, but I'd rather be certain


Unfortunately, we haven't begun working on Summer yet, so a comprehensive list of terms hasn't been compiled. I honestly have no idea what those words mean just by looking at the roomaji, but I'm pretty sure most of them can be found with a bit of googling, though. Zalas's site might also be helpful.



みちる 「テゴメにされちゃう!」
実凪 「・・・されちゃいますか」
<span title="Yukito: 'What do you take me for?!'">往人 「するか!」


Well....... its this seemingly "air-headed" (for lack of a better term) attitude that makes her likeable :P I'll have to side with you on this one: Minagi's GENUINELY likeable.

Oh, I like Minagi well enough (I like all of the Key characters, more or less: that's one reason their games are so great =P), it's just her story that kind of grinds on me.

zalas
2004-11-12, 19:14
http://www.cjas.org/~zalas/AIR/moin.cgi/SummerHeian

Have fun!

(if anyone has suggestions, feel free to add in stuff, it's a wiki)

2004-11-12, 19:48
Thanks a bunch!
I'll stick in some of my own info in there

AstCd2
2004-11-12, 20:26
I may be a bit naive here, but this is how I like to believe Key's product line came to be:

1) Key made Kanon (100% H-scene free)
2) Visual Arts said "HEY! We're not releasing a game without H-scenes!!"
3) Key slapped together some H-scenes, obviously not putting as much effort into it as the rest of the game
4) Kanon became popular and a TV show was approved
5) The TV show presented the story H-scene free, as it was meant to be
6) After the success of the show, VA let Key release an H-scene free "director's cut" of the game


Unfortunately, there's a bit of a time discrepancy here. ^^;;
The PC all-ages version came out January 7th 2000, while the TV series came out in 2002.


7) The all-age version became uber popular and was ported to game consoles
8) When their next game (Air) was finished, VA said "You can release your all-age version, but you've gotta release an adult version too!!"
9) The all-age version proved to be more popular again, as well as getting ported to consoles


The original Air was released on September 8th, 2000, with the all ages version following on July 27th 2001. Again, probably because (as you note) releasing a non-adult version is a risky if not suicidal move in a market well known for the depth of its sexual deviation.


10) Finally, with the release of their 3rd game (Clannad), VA said "Okay, you win, we won't force any more crappy H-scenes into your games"

Any chance I'm right? Cause the idea that Key didn't want H-scenes in their games is the only thing that's making'em a respectable company in my mind...

You may well be right with regards to the fact that Visual Arts (or at least business considerations, given Key's status as a maker of Renai games) had a part to play in the insertation of the h-scenes (rather than any literary considerations). Maeda has commented in the past that the theme he believes to be the most important is 'family' (as can be seen in Clannad), and I can't imagine H-scenes were part of his original vision for any of the Key games.

Nonetheless, they're in there, and I suppose fans can only speculate as to why. But while I personally don't think they added anything to the game, I wouldn't go as far as to say that they made Key a disrespectable company.

Supposing for a moment that they were intentionally included as part of the story: the problems I can see with that are twofold:

1. They're sexual in nature.
2. They're pretty badly written and don't fit in with the story.

To address the first point; I understand that a lot of players (especially us here in the west) could (quite reasonably) claim that any sex scene is bad, but given the context of a heavily pornographic-skewed Renai industry, one might well make the argument that something like what we see in Key games isn't all too bad. Still not a good thing, perhaps, but certainly a damn sight better than some of the hardcore things that should never have seen the light of release, and not a whole lot worse than what one might see in certain movies these days.

To address the second point; yes, these scenes are bad, but considered seperately from the sexual content issue discussed above, they're really what one might think of as the boring parts of a story. One might as well complain about how the Minagi story drags out (as I do above ^^;;) rather than complain about a scene that can be fast-forwarded through in 8 seconds and can often be avoided altogether.

Ultimately, I suppose the point I'm trying to make here is a classic one: it could be worse =P

Finally, please don't take this as my personal polemic against your opinion or anything ^^;; Quite the opposite; the relevance of H-scenes in Renai gaming is a pet topic of mine that I could talk for hours on, and I welcome every opportunity I get to discuss it. Don't even get me started on the topic of what the American companies are picking up to be translated.

By the way, you'll be happy to hear that their next game, Planetarian, will be H-scene free. A new precedent for Key, perhaps?

2004-11-12, 20:40
Provided they don't lock out international IPs, I guess everyone here would be interested.

Keisuke
2004-11-12, 23:07
Judging by way the Minagi talks, you really have to wonder if she is the smartest in the school. However, I really don't think Minagi is air-head.

In fact, she is so smart that she knows how to mess up human's mind(especially Yukito's).

2004-11-13, 02:21
Well, as mentioned somewhere else on this forum:

"Don't confuse intelligence with common sense" :P

AstCd2
2004-11-13, 03:06
Judging by way the Minagi talks, you really have to wonder if she is the smartest in the school. However, I really don't think Minagi is air-head.

It's all the more incredible when, later in the story, she manages to narrate an entire flashback with amazing lucidness (and no trace of her trademark '...') =P

Haeleth
2004-11-13, 04:30
By the way, whats a 翼人? Im guessing its some religous position.

*Copies from unedited script*

Ryuuya: "Karatenjiku" are called “Hoyoku”, sometimes called “Fuuji” and “Kumari” a long time ago.

Need help on these terms, if you guys don't mind ^^. I'm guessing their some kind of honorifics from the Kanji, but I'd rather be certain
The line in question being 700.3a, "【柳也】「唐天竺では鳳翼(ほうよく)と呼びならわし、異名を風司(ふうじ)、古き名では空真理(くまり)ともいう」".

You're mistaking 唐天竺 for a name for the 翼人, when it's actually a term for far-off lands (specifically China and India). For the other names, they're just (made-up?) old names for 翼人.

The sentence as a whole comes out as something like "in the west, the custom ys to call them Phoenix-Wings, and also Wind-Lords, whereas of old Sky-Truth were they yclept".

2004-11-13, 07:29
Thanks Haeleth. *goes of to correct script, and considers making an account here. Having to post to ask for help would flood these boards in no time ^^;*

Anyway, just to clear this up before for the Chinese literate (if there are any others beside me on this board), the Chinese script written by UlyssesLin was written with in CANTONESE in mind, so you'll see particular nuances that don't usually pop up in standard Mandarin (what everyone calls Chinese)

So 没来由 = 没理由. Should be easy to figure out, anyway

2004-11-13, 08:09
> I really don't know if AIR's H-scene was funny, but I did laugh at Kanon
> H-scene scripts. You have to admit... The way Yuuich describes it is
> funny.

Care to give any quotes? (paraphrase if need be)
I have the all age version, but i'd like to see some of the script if it's funny :)

omgwtflolzz
2004-11-13, 08:48
「俺は頷いて、もう一度栞の部分に触れる。」

「栞のその部分に、俺は自分のものを宛う。」

"Things" and "parts". A lot of them.

Korgath
2004-11-13, 10:01
How are you supposed to read 宛う? I can obviously guess what it is from the context but even so I can't guess the reading.

I want to know because that is some hot and steamy writing, man.

Nephillim
2004-11-13, 10:05
Hmm......It'll be interesting to see if zalas and Asuto-chin would follow Haeleth's example and give us the H-scenes in all their cheesy entirety, or doctor it alittle just to make it more bearable :P

I don't think I can translate those parts though, but I'll give it a shot and hopefully I'll manage, depending on how *ahem* detailed the Chinese script is about these things ^^;

........if they're present at all, that is. I noticed that some of the H-parts were omitted from the Chinese translation of Kano's path, so I can't guarentee anything.

Haeleth
2004-11-13, 12:42
How are you supposed to read 宛う? I can obviously guess what it is from the context but even so I can't guess the reading.
I believe it's あてがう.

Korgath
2004-11-13, 14:16
Thanks マジカル翻訳者へーレスちん。

zalas
2004-11-13, 16:12
For some reason I always read that as ハイレスさま

Haeleth
2004-11-13, 16:42
ほんまは 「ハレス」 やけど、どっちもアズちゃんの「蝿様」よりましやから、別にかまへんわ。 好きに読んでええやで。

(Hmm... signs of Haruko overdose showing, perhaps...)

zalas
2004-11-13, 23:35
晴れずってちがう… ハレスの名前コーナァァァァ

AstCd2
2004-11-13, 23:56
晴れずってちがう… ハレスの名前コーナァァァァ
…マジでなんでやねん

lostotaku
2004-11-14, 07:08
Here's my take on how the scenes got into Kanon. I think it springs from Key's former ties with Tactics in making ONE (Also ONE 2 and Moon). From what I know about ONE and the others were H games made by Key and Tactics. My opinion is that when they branched out on their own, Key probably wasn't comfortable making Kanon without H scenes, even with the success of ONE, etc, behind them, and besides, the H scenes had worked before. Other obvious reasons of course include that hentai is a pretty strong element in the renai market- I heard a lot of angry voices when Clannad was released without H scenes.

So why would they keep them in AIR after having made the perfection of Kanon? Well, it was still only one game, and from what I've heard the PC adult version of Kanon easily outsold the PC all-age version. Pressure from Visual Arts might probably also played a role. By the time AIR was out and Key was a very successful company on par with Leaf in the eyes of the public, they probably wanted to seperate themselves from the hentai market with Clannad, focusing mainly on the story.

Oh, a quick intro, I'm newbie lostotaku, followed this translation since 25%, played AIR and Mizuiro too among others. Doujin/renai fan in general, somewhat (read: greatly) hampered by the fact that I don't understand one bit of what that last guy just said or any Japanese for that matter.

Haeleth
2004-11-14, 08:18
Other obvious reasons of course include that hentai is a pretty strong element in the renai market- I heard a lot of angry voices when Clannad was released without H scenes.
Precisely. And that's why Jun Maeda has been quite explicit (no pun intended) that Key's future will not be 100% all-age. Planetarian will be clean, but their next product after that may not be. (And the Kanon rerelease later this month will be 18-kin.)

Oh, a quick intro, I'm newbie lostotaku . . . Doujin/renai fan in general, somewhat (read: greatly) hampered by the fact that I don't understand one bit of what that last guy just said or any Japanese for that matter.
Welcome to the forums!

Don't worry about not being able to follow the Japanese stuff; those of us who speak the language always provide translations if we're saying anything important. In this case we're just being silly about how to pronounce my name, and doing impressions of Haruko from AIR. You're not missing much. ^^

lostotaku
2004-11-14, 09:47
Haha, alright. And thanks for the welcome.

I think it's pretty clear that Key is moving away from h-scenes, but it's a hard road to take. I've actually heard a rumor (completely blasphemous, I assure you there was no truth to it) that Key was going to release an adult version of Clannad... wouldn't that be ironic. I imagine they'll put out at least one more 18+ game (and probably one or two re-releases) before they give up h-scenes entirely, that is to say, if they give up h-scenes entirely, but they're clearly heading down a new path. Admittedly I'm really excited by what I've seen of the up-and-coming Planetarian, hopefully a translation project will pick it up (shouldn't be hard to do, the game is a novel and probably substantially shorter than Kanon).

Of course, more interesting to postulate I think might be Key's reasoning for moving away from h-scenes. After all, in a culture where nudity and hentai are fairly commonplace, I highly doubt it's due to some moral objections, although they might feel the story is somewhat hampered by the often out-of-place seeming h-scenes. As I mentioned before they may be trying to break away from the hentai market and reach a broader audience... it's even feasible (although extremely unlikely) that the move away from 18+ content is preparation for expansion into Europe, North America and/or other areas.

AstCd2
2004-11-14, 13:40
Haha, alright. And thanks for the welcome.


Hello, welcome, nice to meet you.


I think it's pretty clear that Key is moving away from h-scenes, but it's a hard road to take. I've actually heard a rumor (completely blasphemous, I assure you there was no truth to it) that Key was going to release an adult version of Clannad... wouldn't that be ironic. I imagine they'll put out at least one more 18+ game (and probably one or two re-releases) before they give up h-scenes entirely, that is to say, if they give up h-scenes entirely, but they're clearly heading down a new path.

Other obvious reasons of course include that hentai is a pretty strong element in the renai market- I heard a lot of angry voices when Clannad was released without H scenes.
Precisely. And that's why Jun Maeda has been quite explicit (no pun intended) that Key's future will not be 100% all-age. Planetarian will be clean, but their next product after that may not be. (And the Kanon rerelease later this month will be 18-kin.)

As unwittingly amusing as certain air-headed Clannad characters would probably have been in any hypothetical 18+ scene, I'd have to say that most of the complaints I saw about Clannad were directed at the rather insipid writing in certain plot arcs. There may have been a bit of an uproar about the whole 18+ thing at the start, but I find it hard to believe that people protested out of anything but the fact that they were just used to having h-scenes. Players could in actuality cope perfectly fine without h-scenes once they got used to the idea, as previous large 'commercial' titles* and the consequental popularity of Clannad demonstrated. While I could understand why Maeda would think it a poor marketing move to go without h-scenes (even after Clannad), I can also foresee that certain niche of the market opening just a little wider in the future.

Key's own future from here on lies along one of two paths. They can either focus on marketing the hell out of their existing popular series with fan discs and such (something many of the other giants such as Leaf, Nekoneko and Circus are often accused of doing), or they can take risks with their new projects (much as Leaf did with Utawarerumono during their expansion days). Clannad was one such risk, as is Planetarian in its own way through the replacement of Itaru** with CO2A. I should hope their next new game will feature something new too, whether it be a lack of h-scenes or something else entirely.

*Dengeki G's Sister Princess and Futakoi are good examples, as is PrincessSoft's Final Approach and just about any popular all-age console conversion
**Hinoue Itaru, the art director for all the Key games up until Planetarian. Some fans have complained that they've lost the 'Key' flavour without the old art style.


Admittedly I'm really excited by what I've seen of the up-and-coming Planetarian, hopefully a translation project will pick it up (shouldn't be hard to do, the game is a novel and probably substantially shorter than Kanon).


There's a rather popular view at the moment on 2ch's Leaf/Key board that Clannad took far too long to come out and that Planetarian is really just Visual Arts's way of appealing to the otaku for some funding to make up for the 4 years of unprofitability from their Key division. Of course, with the dearth of information that's out about it, it's still anyone's guess on whether it'll actually be worth buying or not, although I'm quite sure most of the 鍵信者 will buy it anyway. As someone noted, 1050 yen is no more than the price of two meals over there.

As for a translation project... well, it'd be nice to see a project that took less than a year to come out, wouldn't it? ^^;
Realistically speaking, though, you may be on rather shaky moral ground given that there's no hard copy at the moment and the resulting unlikelihood of any non-japanese speaker being able to obtain a copy legitimately.

lostotaku
2004-11-14, 17:38
Hello, welcome, nice to meet you.

Likewise, thanks ^^ You'll be seeing a lot of me.

There's a rather popular view at the moment on 2ch's Leaf/Key board that Clannad took far too long to come out and that Planetarian is really just Visual Arts's way of appealing to the otaku for some funding to make up for the 4 years of unprofitability from their Key division. Of course, with the dearth of information that's out about it, it's still anyone's guess on whether it'll actually be worth buying or not, although I'm quite sure most of the 鍵信者 will buy it anyway. As someone noted, 1050 yen is no more than the price of two meals over there.

I've considered a possibility similar to that... but I hope Key won't stoop to such levels. 5 versions of Kanon ought to be enough money in the bag.

As for a translation project... well, it'd be nice to see a project that took less than a year to come out, wouldn't it? ^^;
Realistically speaking, though, you may be on rather shaky moral ground given that there's no hard copy at the moment and the resulting unlikelihood of any non-japanese speaker being able to obtain a copy legitimately.

I don't quite understand much about the method of obtaining the game besides that you can't order it on hard copy... I can only assume you will have to download it from Key's site. Well, there might be someone out there willing to sell the game to non-Japanese for twice the price. Otherwise... will the day dawn that we see keygens for key games? You never know.

Nephillim
2004-11-14, 19:35
I've considered a possibility similar to that... but I hope Key won't stoop to such levels. 5 versions of Kanon ought to be enough money in the bag.


Then again, they may boot up another 2 more versions of AIR as well. The things people do for money ^^;


I don't quite understand much about the method of obtaining the game besides that you can't order it on hard copy... I can only assume you will have to download it from Key's site. Well, there might be someone out there willing to sell the game to non-Japanese for twice the price. Otherwise... will the day dawn that we see keygens for key games? You never know.

You're right on that one, but I've got a feeling the site would probably surpass its bandwidth when the thousands of people who'll be buying it (you'd better expect it, seeing that Key's site slowed VERY considerably when Planetarian was announced) start downloading simultaneously.

About others selling it to non-Japanese, the situation looks like its going to be truth unless non-Japanese IPs would be allowed to purchase it (highly unlikely, looking at the many sites that seem to be foreigner-unfriendly over there ^^;)
AND........ we don't talk about piracy much on these forums

AstCd2
2004-11-14, 19:52
Then again, they may boot up another 2 more versions of AIR as well. The things people do for money ^^;


Air Standard Edition is probably only a matter of time now. I imagine the only reason it's not out right now is because they didn't want it competing with Kanon Standard Edition. I'm going to mail a pipe bomb to Maeda if he tries a Clannad Standard Edition, though.



I don't quite understand much about the method of obtaining the game besides that you can't order it on hard copy... I can only assume you will have to download it from Key's site. Well, there might be someone out there willing to sell the game to non-Japanese for twice the price. Otherwise... will the day dawn that we see keygens for key games? You never know.

You're right on that one, but I've got a feeling the site would probably surpass its bandwidth when the thousands of people who'll be buying it (you'd better expect it, seeing that Key's site slowed VERY considerably when Planetarian was announced) start downloading simultaneously.


The sales will be made along much the same marketing model as the existing online doujin shops - you input your credit card details, and then you're given access to the download (which I believe is about 300MB). Huge business-scale servers (such as YahooBB) will be responsible for this distribution side. Key itself will have nothing more to do with it than the production.

As for resale; it'd be pretty questionable to resell software when there's no hard copy. You'd be doing exactly the same thing as the licensed retailers, which I'm sure can't be very legal or ethical.

Nandemonai
2004-11-14, 20:43
When you sell a physical CD you're doing the same thing as a reseller also.

Paying for the game doesn't give you the discs, or the bits. It lets you treat them as property; make use of them, enjoy them, etc. You cannot COPY them but they are your bits. You can sell them; in the case of the electronic download, you would probably (to be fully legal) have to destroy your own copies.

Weave
2004-11-15, 00:25
AstCd2 wrote1050 yen is no more than the price of two meals over there.

where are you eating at?
That's a bowl of ramen and a coke maybe...., but not two.

Lawson's I can see two meals, but they'll be kinda dinky.

but then, I like to eat.

AstCd2
2004-11-15, 00:31
When you sell a physical CD you're doing the same thing as a reseller also.

Paying for the game doesn't give you the discs, or the bits. It lets you treat them as property; make use of them, enjoy them, etc. You cannot COPY them but they are your bits. You can sell them; in the case of the electronic download, you would probably (to be fully legal) have to destroy your own copies.

Sorry, I should have been a bit clearer. When I said 'the same thing as the licensed resellers', what I literally meant was 'sell to a whole bunch of people', but I suppose the scenario you raise is also possible (if not, you'll forgive me for saying, actually plausible =P).

I'm not an intellectual property lawyer, but I imagine that in the case you mention, Key's distributors would be idiots not to put something along the lines of 'by purchasing this product, you agree not to distribute or resell it in any form' in the purchase agreement. Any rights you may have had as the purchaser will thus be confined through the privity of contract.


where are you eating at?
That's a bowl of ramen and a coke maybe...., but not two.

Lawson's I can see two meals, but they'll be kinda dinky.

but then, I like to eat.

True, but no one said they were good meals =P
Actually, some of the people from 2ch claimed it was up to four meals, but then even I got a little skeptical about how far the poor dietary habits of most otaku go.

My point, though, is that it's not a lot of money: about 2-3 volumes of moderately expensive manga, if you like that analogy better.

Nephillim
2004-11-15, 01:10
I'm not an intellectual property lawyer, but I imagine that in the case you mention, Key's distributors would be idiots not to put something along the lines of 'by purchasing this product, you agree not to distribute or resell it in any form' in the purchase agreement. Any rights you may have had as the purchaser will thus be confined through the privity of contract.


Problem is, there won't be any proper way to enforce this (with all your key-generators everywhere), and people could easily distribute a single copy amongst themselves.



where are you eating at?
That's a bowl of ramen and a coke maybe...., but not two.

Lawson's I can see two meals, but they'll be kinda dinky.

but then, I like to eat.

True, but no one said they were good meals =P
Actually, some of the people from 2ch claimed it was up to four meals, but then even I got a little skeptical about how far the poor dietary habits of most otaku go.

My point is that it's not a lot of money: about 2-3 volumes of moderately expensive manga, if you like that analogy better.

4 meals? If the meals were cup noodles, yes :P
Then again, maybe more.

AstCd2
2004-11-15, 01:19
Problem is, there won't be any proper way to enforce this (with all your key-generators everywhere), and people could easily distribute a single copy amongst themselves.

Oh, absolutely, and there's no way of stopping this short of instituting an Orwell-style totalitarian government which monitors your every move. I don't imagine that Key is under any delusions about how badly their title is going to get pirated, and I imagine the problem will only be exacerbated when the lack of anything cold and hard to feel in your hands (disc, mousepad, Yumemi plushie) thins the line of practical outcome between legitimate and illegitimate acqusition.

Additionally, the remedy in contract* would be unlikely to exceed 1050 yen (per person you sold it to, assuming the damages are expectations based) even if you were sued . Now, as Weave notes above, a lawyer is barely going to make his lunch money back on that, so somehow, I don't see it happening =P

(*Again, I'm not a lawyer, especially not a Japanese lawyer)


4 meals? If the meals were cup noodles, yes :P
Then again, maybe more.

Well, Kunisaki Yukito certainly seems to get by on an amazingly low food budget =P. Perhaps they intend to scrounge off good-natured girls with rice certificates.

Haeleth
2004-11-15, 03:40
Worth noting that Japanese copyright law is not quite the same as American, and the Japanese attitude to punishing violators is very different. In the USA, filesharers and authors of filesharing programs get sued. In Japan, they get criminal prosectutions: remember Isamu Kaneko?

Anyway, I suspect the extremely low price and easy access to the downloads will minimise piracy of this title. Online software distribution for around the thousand-yen mark is well established in Japan, it's not particularly viewed as ripping you off or making you jump through hoops... except among the whining brats on 2ch, of course. :p

Perhaps they intend to scrounge off good-natured girls with rice certificates.
Only after they get kicked out by the alcoholic single mothers with developmentally challenged daughters they've been sponging off.

zalas
2004-11-15, 09:27
Perhaps they intend to scrounge off good-natured girls with rice certificates.
Only after they get kicked out by the alcoholic single mothers with developmentally challenged daughters they've been sponging off.
*smack*
nandeyanen?!

Korgath
2004-11-15, 14:18
Perhaps wearing a black shirt with long sleeves and jeans in the middle of the (Japanese) summer also helps to gather support.

Then again, pretty much everyone in Air is nuts.

Keisuke
2004-11-15, 18:05
Perhaps wearing a black shirt with long sleeves and jeans in the middle of the (Japanese) summer also helps to gather support.

Then again, pretty much everyone in Air is nuts.

Except Sora.
Wait.... Crows are not suppose to be smart like Sora.... Well I guess you are right....

K
2004-11-15, 18:20
Perhaps wearing a black shirt with long sleeves and jeans in the middle of the (Japanese) summer also helps to gather support.
Hey, he needs his cash for food, how can he get more clothes?

lostotaku
2004-11-15, 18:20
Oh, absolutely, and there's no way of stopping this short of instituting an Orwell-style totalitarian government which monitors your every move. I don't imagine that Key is under any delusions about how badly their title is going to get pirated, and I imagine the problem will only be exacerbated when the lack of anything cold and hard to feel in your hands (disc, mousepad, Yumemi plushie) thins the line of practical outcome between legitimate and illegitimate acqusition.

You know, it's been twenty years since 1984 and my TV still fails to intimidate me. I rather think whether or not Key's game gets pirated depends a lot on how far they go (and instincts tell me they will go fairly far) using program keys and other security measures.
Anyway, I suspect the extremely low price and easy access to the downloads will minimise piracy of this title.
Depends on how easy it is to buy, also, but I have a feeling your view here might be a wee bit optimistic.
Perhaps wearing a black shirt with long sleeves and jeans in the middle of the (Japanese) summer also helps to gather support.

Then again, pretty much everyone in Air is nuts.

Hey, I wasn't nuts, and I was in that game somewhere... I think... no wait, that was just an alcohol-impaired game experience. Um... hey, look over there, it's Ayu Tsukimiya!
Except Sora.
Wait.... Crows are not suppose to be smart like Sora.... Well I guess you are right....
Well maybe not Sora, but what about that guy who gave you a cake for no reason? He might've been relatively sane.
Hey, he needs his cash for food, how can he get more clothes?
He isn't keeping all those girls around him for no reason you know.

Keisuke
2004-11-15, 18:32
Except Sora.
Wait.... Crows are not suppose to be smart like Sora.... Well I guess you are right....
Well maybe not Sora, but what about that guy who gave you a cake for no reason? He might've been relatively sane.

Oh him?
Just play AIR scenario and you will find out what kind of a$$hole he is. You will be extremely upset if you love Misuzu and Haruko.

His name is BTW........ *shhhhhh*

lostotaku
2004-11-15, 18:35
I give up. There are no sane people in this world! Wait, the beetle at the beginning! Yes, you forgot the beetle... the beetle is sane I tell you!

Ahem. I wondered why that guy had his own cg... so he plays a bigger role than I had thought, eh? Learn something new every day.

Nephillim
2004-11-15, 18:47
I give up. There are no sane people in this world! Wait, the beetle at the beginning! Yes, you forgot the beetle... the beetle is sane I tell you!


Well, if you let yourself be picked up by a "developmentally challenged" girl without attempting to crawl/fly away, and can STILL calmly crawl away with a "Ms Beetle" after what should have been a rather traumatic experience, I don't think you're very sane yourself.

I conclude that the only sane things were the peach-flavoured drinks! They're repulsive for a reason, and thats to repel scroungers like Yukito!

No wait........ Misuzu isn't put off by them.......

Stranger
2004-11-16, 01:19
I think there are some commorical sites that use BitTorrent, although I don't know how them make sure you have a prober torrent file or not. But again, am not sure. By the way, what is YahooBB?!

Any way, how is the ending of these games?!, I remember when I finnished Mizuiro (only the bit translated) it made me fell realy good for few days afterwards (well, not realy the ending, more like the park trip). Heck even my uncle's family started looking at me strangely. Although after those few days reality started to sinck in again, and i went back to being extra extra quite. Any how, how about the ending of these games, do they mostly give you a fuzzy feeling inside?!

as for h-sences, well I don't mind a game with out them, but I would love to have some fanservice in their place. And hopefully the fanservice will be from all charectors (like Akiko and Misuzu's mom).

by the way, some website forget to block IP addess on all protcols, so you can try https:// (if the protcal is not blocked on the server). Or you can try to find a japaese proxy server :-)

AstCd2
2004-11-16, 01:36
I think there are some commorical sites that use BitTorrent, although I don't know how them make sure you have a prober torrent file or not. But again, am not sure. By the way, what is YahooBB?!


Yahoo!BB stands for Yahoo! Broadband. They're an ISP, if I'm not mistaken.

Any how, how about the ending of these games, do they mostly give you a fuzzy feeling inside?!

Well, I'd be struggling to describe too many of the endings from Kanon and Air as 'warm and fuzzy', but a lot of Clannad's endings would fit the bill.


as for h-sences, well I don't mind a game with out them, but I would love to have some fanservice in their place. And hopefully the fanservice will be from all charectors (like Akiko and Misuzu's mom)

Given how the games have turned out so far, I'd count myself lucky every time one of my favourite support characters got a CG at all =P

zalas
2004-11-16, 02:50
For me, whenever I cleared a scenario in AIR, I felt a sense of breathlessness, as if soaring through the sky myself, watching the brilliant sun sparkle through the clouds. Okay, that just sounded odd, I think I should probably go to sleep soon -_-

Weave
2004-11-16, 04:11
hold on, I kinda caught the tail end of this thread, but are you saying that they aren't letting anyone outside of Japan order Planeterium (sp)?

If so, that sucks, alot.
If not, good cause that would be stupid.

and to be ontopic, even if they aren't any H scenes ingame, doushinji will fill in the gap
and then some.

Stranger
2004-11-16, 04:23
even if they aren't any H scenes ingame, doushinji will fill in the gap and then some.I always prefer the graphics made by the orignal artest, since the orignal artest know how the charector should look like and how the charector should beheave :-)

AstCd2
2004-11-16, 04:40
hold on, I kinda caught the tail end of this thread, but are you saying that they aren't letting anyone outside of Japan order Planeterium (sp)?

Well, we won't know until the non-YahooBB release in December, but fortunately there's been nothing pointing to that other than speculation as of yet.


and to be ontopic, even if they aren't any H scenes ingame, doushinji will fill in the gap
and then some.

True, but I can imagine some people being resentful that they now have to go out and actually buy the damn things. None of them are going to be by the Key artists or be inserted into the actual 'story', either. As high quality as doujinshi can be, I could still see demand for the real thing.

adun50
2004-11-16, 05:20
I always prefer the graphics made by the orignal artest, since the orignal artest know how the charector should look like and how the charector should beheave :-)

that's not necessarily true, i've seen many doujinshi and they make it looks just like the original artist had drawn it.

Haeleth
2004-11-16, 05:37
Any how, how about the ending of these games, do they mostly give you a fuzzy feeling inside?!
Depends on the game. Kanon and Clannad tend towards happy/fuzzy endings even where they feel a bit forced; AIR has a bit of both (Misuzu's endings are more weird than fuzzy). Other companies' games are very variable... I was left in a state of shock for several days after finishing Sense Off.

There's definitely a tragic streak in many ren'ai games, which is part of the Japanese aesthetic. There's a reason why the Japanese term for the beauty of the world, 物のあわれ, translates literally as "the wretchedness of things". The basic principle is that happiness in this life is only ever fleeting; in ren'ai games this normally translates into the girl and/or boy either dying or being forced to depart just after they've found perfect love. Marriage is quite a rare outcome, even though some would say it's the most wretched ending of all... :p

hold on, I kinda caught the tail end of this thread, but are you saying that they aren't letting anyone outside of Japan order Planeterium (sp)?
It's highly unlikely they'd do that deliberately; the only risk would be that they might decide it would make their life easier only to accept credit cards from Japanese banks. I have to say, however, that I've bought a fair amount of software downloads from Japan, and I've never come across such a case yet.

Stranger
2004-11-16, 06:30
well, as I said, it was not realy the ending that gave me the fuzzy felling, but the day (nigh) before the ending at the park and after the park (Mizuiro again). If anything, the ending of the translated bit of Mizuiro was strange, and didn't make much sense to me (and if anything it made the fuzzy feeling I got before cool down a bit).

oh well, thanks for the info, and I looking forward to some fuzzy felling with Nayuki-hime :-)
that's not necessarily true, i've seen many doujinshi and they make it looks just like the original artist had drawn it.your right, but what is the chance of that happaning to every game out there. Beside, an in-game fanservice is better then off-game fan-made hardcore, or that is my opinion

P.S. we are still on topic right?!

P.S.S. for those who did play the Jap version of Mizuiro, is the game as short as the translation made it look like?!, I am suprise by the fact that it felt shorter then the current Kanon patch (I talking about a single path, like Nayuki's and not comparing the full patchs with each other).

AzureLight
2004-11-16, 09:57
About time Azu-chan posts a reply.

Somebody cussed me on another forum because I played American-translated H-games, and that I don't know $#!@ about these games.

Well, American-translated H-games aren't even close to quality, yes, but I can't get the Japanese ones either, not because I can't play them because of the language (to compensate, I have lots of PS2 dating sims, but the lack of H-scenes kinda make me feel less interested <-there you go, my opinion on H-scenes)) but the availability of these things. Illegal downloading is out of the question. Himeya doesn't ship to my country, heck online shopping is non-existent here (or, at least, I haven't acquired enough knowledge on how to, being a village boy and all) and the interest in Japanese anime and games are pretty low here.

About the endings, I do keep in mind that the world is not so rosy. Thus the loss of interest in Kiminozo, the cryfest that traumatised me to hate hospitals, completed only 75% of all-ages version, because it was so predictable, the way I was going. I still have all-ages Mizuiro to play (20%), and many other awesome titles (MemoOff, many games by KID (http://www.kid-game.co.jp/) (even Ai Yori Aoshi), Natsuna/Hourglass of Summer, Princess Holiday, Lost Passage, some others... oh, Kanon and Air, lol), but I've only managed to complete Sweet Legacy.

Nephillim
2004-11-16, 14:57
Well, American-translated H-games aren't even close to quality, yes, but I can't get the Japanese ones either, not because I can't play them because of the language (to compensate, I have lots of PS2 dating sims, but the lack of H-scenes kinda make me feel less interested <-there you go, my opinion on H-scenes)) but the availability of these things. Illegal downloading is out of the question. Himeya doesn't ship to my country, heck online shopping is non-existent here (or, at least, I haven't acquired enough knowledge on how to, being a village boy and all) and the interest in Japanese anime and games are pretty low here.


Not easy to get them here in Singapore. Technically, anything thats 'pornographic and unsafe for minors that ISN'T a movie' is banned over here, so by right there should be NO H-games (or bishoujo games, seeing that they're grouped together with H-material by most people with no knowledge of either ^^;) on the shelves.
Then again, the odd copy DOES slip through them, so you've got to buy them one by one (Personal copy. If you import en masse, you'll get caught). I just LOVE Singapore -_-


I still have all-ages Mizuiro to play (20%), and many other awesome titles (MemoOff, many games by KID (http://www.kid-game.co.jp/) (even Ai Yori Aoshi), Natsuna/Hourglass of Summer, Princess Holiday, Lost Passage, some others... oh, Kanon and Air, lol), but I've only managed to complete Sweet Legacy.


One wonders how you acquired such games in the first place, since after all you're a "village boy" :P

lostotaku
2004-11-16, 15:49
but the lack of H-scenes kinda make me feel less interested <-there you go, my opinion on H-scenes)
You're so on-topic. Have a cookie!
Illegal downloading is out of the question. Himeya doesn't ship to my country, heck online shopping is non-existent here (or, at least, I haven't acquired enough knowledge on how to, being a village boy and all) and the interest in Japanese anime and games are pretty low here.
Which pretty much leaves you in quite a predicament. E-bay and Yahoo auctions are hardly reliable sources for these games... how did you ever get what you do have? I think a "business" trip to Japan might be a more-than-viable option for you at this point, if not for the vacation value merely to obtain the games...
Not easy to get them here in Singapore. Technically, anything thats 'pornographic and unsafe for minors that ISN'T a movie' is banned over here, so by right there should be NO H-games (or bishoujo games, seeing that they're grouped together with H-material by most people with no knowledge of either ^^;) on the shelves.
Then again, the odd copy DOES slip through them, so you've got to bouy them one by one (Personal copy. If you import en masse, you'll get caught). I just LOVE Singapore -_-

The United States has rather bizzare censoring laws and anti-nudity views. It's legal for me to pick up as many of these games as I want... so long as I keep to myself to avoid ridicule (take that as you will). It's not too uncommon for country laws and location to dictate what games you can and can't play... to this end Eurasia and North America are decidedly more blessed. For those of you who can't as easily obtain the games, I wish you the best of luck... although I really wouldn't condone moving here. Yahoo and E-bay are really the only alternatives to Himeya that I know of... besides just heading straight to the source.

omgwtflolzz
2004-11-16, 19:08
Not easy to get them here in Singapore. Technically, anything thats 'pornographic and unsafe for minors that ISN'T a movie' is banned over here, so by right there should be NO H-games (or bishoujo games, seeing that they're grouped together with H-material by most people with no knowledge of either ^^;) on the shelves.
Then again, the odd copy DOES slip through them, so you've got to buy them one by one (Personal copy. If you import en masse, you'll get caught). I just LOVE Singapore -_-

...you can find them here at all? Where? I've never seen any renai simulation games, adult or not, for sale around here anywhere. I always buy mine in Japan. Of course, my trips are mostly paid for, so it's much better that way, but still.

Nephillim
2004-11-16, 19:57
You could ask shops to help order for you (I think certain shops like Comics Connection would be willing, though I get mine from friends coming back from abroad), or grab them off the shelves yourself *hugs copy of Symphonic Rain bought today*

The problem with our government is they're too blind/can't be bothered to enforce some of the laws they've put in, so sometimes a branch of some overseas company gets to bring in the good stuff now and then. And that explains why we can sometiumes get........ *ahem* in our mangas and games, which apparently 'had' the censors' seal of approval to be marketted here ^^;

Treewaller
2004-11-16, 21:10
Here's my take on how the scenes got into Kanon. I think it springs from Key's former ties with Tactics in making ONE (Also ONE 2 and Moon). From what I know about ONE and the others were H games made by Key and Tactics. My opinion is that when they branched out on their own, Key probably wasn't comfortable making Kanon without H scenes, even with the success of ONE, etc, behind them, and besides, the H scenes had worked before. Other obvious reasons of course include that hentai is a pretty strong element in the renai market- I heard a lot of angry voices when Clannad was released without H scenes.

I figured Key had set out on their own because they wanted to start making games without H scenes, and either Visual Arts hadn't specified they wanted adult games when they took Key in, or they told them from the start that they'd release an all-age version of their games if they make adult versions too. And, over time, they've gotten to the point where Key has proven themselves and VA is letting them release their games just the way they were intended to be.

And that's why Jun Maeda has been quite explicit (no pun intended) that Key's future will not be 100% all-age.

Was that meant in a "not all of our games are supposed to be for all ages" kinda way, or in a "we won't be able to get away with only releasing all-age games indefinitely" kinda way...

omgwtflolzorz
2004-11-17, 20:05
And that's why Jun Maeda has been quite explicit (no pun intended) that Key's future will not be 100% all-age.

Was that meant in a "not all of our games are supposed to be for all ages" kinda way, or in a "we won't be able to get away with only releasing all-age games indefinitely" kinda way...

Probably the former, but the latter is likely.

Nephillim
2004-11-17, 21:02
But if they've made up their mind NOT to take a "not all of our games are supposed to be for all ages" stance, they'd better brush up on their descriptives for the H scenes. Maybe try not to make it sound so pathetically laughable, yes?

Stranger
2004-11-17, 21:15
well I don't mind fanservice from Nayuki-sama, or Misuzu-chin. But I find H to be a bit too much. They can include as many fanservice as they like through out the game. But when it comes to H, they can only have one, and they are usely bad at them.

Any way, an All ages game is not that appeling to me, if a game have not H, then I would like for it to have some fanservice :-)
but the lack of H-scenes kinda make me feel less interestedI second that, and for all it worth, I was truly dispointed when I learnt that Clannad was going to an ALL ages ONLY game. And if it wasn't for the fact that it is made by Key, I would mosly likely have ignored it.

AstCd2
2004-11-17, 22:08
well I don't mind fanservice from Nayuki-sama, or Misuzu-chin. But I find H to be a bit too much. They can include as many fanservice as they like through out the game. But when it comes to H, they can only have one, and they are usely bad at them.

Any way, an All ages game is not that appeling to me, if a game have not H, then I would like for it to have some fanservice :-)
but the lack of H-scenes kinda make me feel less interestedI second that, and for all it worth, I was truly dispointed when I learnt that Clannad was going to an ALL ages ONLY game. And if it wasn't for the fact that it is made by Key, I would mosly likely have ignored it.

...Surely it wasn't that disappointing? ^^;;

Personally, it didn't seem to me like H-scenes would have really added much to Clannad.

Granted, the CG is rather mild, but there's more than enough implicit sexual content and 'fan service' scenes in there (a certain scene with Kyou in the sports shed comes to mind) to keep fans happy, and given the precedent set by their earlier games, any actual H-scenes wouldn't have been terribly good anyway.

But if they've made up their mind NOT to take a "not all of our games are supposed to be for all ages" stance, they'd better brush up on their descriptives for the H scenes. Maybe try not to make it sound so pathetically laughable, yes?

I suppose Key could call in a pinch hitter to write the H-scenes like they did with Planetarian, though I can't say I know of any particularly good h-scene writers in the industry.

AzureLight
2004-11-17, 22:16
But Clannad looks at the moral aspects of teenage life here - do Japanese young men bang their classmates after school every day? (oh lol, they do -_- thanks to H-games, no less)

K
2004-11-18, 10:40
But Clannad looks at the moral aspects of teenage life here - do Japanese young men bang their classmates after school every day? (oh lol, they do -_- thanks to H-games, no less)
What does it have to do with H-games?

lostotaku
2004-11-18, 14:09
Agreed. I was doing that long before I was playing h games. Ahem.

AstCd2
2004-11-18, 18:23
Agreed. I was doing that long before I was playing h games. Ahem.

Sounds to me like you traded down =P

lostotaku
2004-11-18, 20:07
Yeah... didn't have a much of a choice. There's just these funny statutory rape laws in place these days and I really can't get away with banging teenage girls anymore... I mean, erm, ahem... what were we talking about again? AIR anime? Planetarian? Translation projects? Certaintly not statutory rapwuikngj,eabhaomgleavemealone.

Slipgate
2005-01-13, 13:49
I was thinking of creating a new thread for this but then remembered this thread and thought it might be better to contribute it here and not unnecessarily create new threads.

Has anyone seen this story?

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=5991

And to what degree do you think this might affect Key - if not in future works, in the continued sale of current works such as Kanon and Air?

Slipgate

K
2005-01-13, 14:07
Key games don't involve violent rape (or other rape really), elementary school girls, or sex slaves.

Hopefully no problem.

Slipgate
2005-01-13, 14:12
They still involve "pre-18" girls and sex in the cases I mentioned though, which is enough to fall into Loli classifications....

Haeleth
2005-01-13, 14:54
"Loli" normally refers explicitly to content involving prepubescent children. The youngest participant in an H scene in Key's games that I can think of is Shiori, who is 16 at the time (give or take a couple of days). It appears the campaign is pretty directly aimed at the sorts of things that really do involve characters who are obviously well below the age of consent (now 16 in Japan, I gather, though it used to be 13), so I shouldn't think Key will be a target.

Not that it really matters if they are. The all-age versions aren't going anywhere. ;)

lostotaku
2005-01-13, 14:55
I highly doubt Key has anything to worry about over this. If they do, the entire hentai industry will be sunk.

And might I add that there's practically no way such new laws are getting through anyway.

K
2005-01-13, 16:09
Haeleth, I take it that loli discussions in Japan would have to revolve around pre-16 girls instead, correct?

I suppose we're all too stuck on the American definitions... although here in New York you're legal at 17 ^_^;

Stranger
2005-01-13, 22:51
/me remembers Yui-sensei (the small one from HaniHani) and wander how she fitts into this?!!!... age wise... or phiscal wise?!

any way, how the heck can someone put such an under developed charecters into such sences?!!! age wise I realy don't give a damn... but phiscal development wise.... damn, watch it people... there is a limit to everything. And besides, if the game have lolis in it, the chance of it every licensed becomes NULL.

As a fan, I have issues with underdeveloped girls. Age wise.... who remember those things any way :p

key is no danger of this (I hope), espicaly considering that the games require you to build a trusting relationship. And not an SM relationship.

The all-age versions aren't going anywhere. ;) and they won't be selling eather :)

Maceart
2005-01-15, 16:00
Hey, It's freedom of Speech. Give those mangaka's a break.

Donut
2005-01-15, 18:23
Indeed I have to say im new to this. I've only played NGE: GoS, and there were no such adult containing there. When Misuki told me it the other day I was still kinda chocked. I mean don't the game's look like innocent sweet game's ? :P

Well im not a fan of Hentai, infact I have traumatic problem cause of it -_-.
So i'd likely have the all-age verision ^O^

zalas
2005-01-15, 20:42
Key games don't involve violent rape (or other rape really), elementary school girls, or sex slaves.

Hopefully no problem.
Well there's Michiru and that dictionary scene <_<;;
*runs off*

gp32
2005-01-15, 21:51
Well there's Michiru and that dictionary scene <_<;;
*runs off*
GNOOOOOOOOO!

Korgath
2005-01-16, 01:14
されちゃいますか?