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Tabi
2004-11-01, 09:15
I was talking with some friends earlier, and I have a friend who's getting hold of Air for me (I'm very excited, even though I won't be able to understand it ^^; I can look at the pretty pictures and go "ooh aah")... and it seems that it's on two disks, a blue and an orange or something... and it made me wonder (and I thought maybe someone here might know), what is it that makes these games so big?

Like, one of the places me and my friends often look at online has like, games for download and stuff (won't say much more than that, sorry ^^;)... okay when the games have voices and such, voices'll probably take up a good 400mb or so at a minimum... but when it's a game where there's just pictures and music and sound and stuff, how can it take up so much space? Like with Air having two disks... what is there in the game that makes it two disks? @_@... And wasn't Clannad on a DVD disk, despite not having voices? I'm cuuuuurious.

emperor
2004-11-01, 10:57
Well the acutual size of the installed data is less than those 2 CDs, because the 2nd cd is mostly full with the audio. The audio is uncompressed CDDA audio which you can even play on a normal CD player. The rest of the size, well even pictures can take up a lot of space, they aren't low quality after all and of course they are not compressed with modern, performance requiring compressions. How does that matter to you anyways? Probably because you just want to download less, geez why can't I help but thinking people are fresh admitting they are pirating, seeing it as nothing special and then even thinking they don't seem like they are worth their size...

Tabi
2004-11-01, 11:47
Hey, you don't have to get unpleasant with me, I was just honestly curious :P. Besides, did I ever say I was pirating the games myself? My friend's getting hold of it for me, might he not be buying it for me? It's just always made me curious since there'll be all these files in any kind of thing that I assume the pictures are, and they never seem -so- big compared to the overall space that these things take up... like when you install Kanon onto the HD, besides what's on the CD (or was it another game I was thinking of...) it installs like 200mb along with it, and it's like, what is that? Like with some other games it's installing levels or as I said before, voices and stuff, but when it's just a game like Kanon, I was wondering just exactly was there... it doesn't especially -matter- to me, I wouldn't care if I eventually installed Air and it took up the rest of my hard drive, I'd just be happy to play the game I've always seen referred to as pretty much Key's other masterpiece. I couldn't see something like that as "nothing special".

K
2004-11-01, 14:10
Meh. Pirating issues aside, that's got me wondering a bit too.

Sure, it's no big deal that the games are large, but for curiosity's sake... what is it about them that makes them large? These games are more or less just text, pics, and music, and yet Clannad is so big, it was never released on CD.

If it's just because of low compression... I'm sure you could get near-equal quality for far smaller filesizes, enabling Clannad to be sold as a CD version as well. Why didn't this happen? It sounds like they could expand their market somewhat without using too much extra effort...

Tabi
2004-11-01, 14:24
*nodnods* Exactly... I've never played Clannad but just since reading about it and how it's on a DVD and all, it makes me wonder... I guess it must be the multimedia aspect of it all (voices aside), since as Emperor said, you -can- play the music on a CD player, and CD-quality-size-audio is pretty damned big ^_^. Then there's also the opening/credits movies, I don't know how big those are but I'd imagine those would be large...

Is Haeleth around? ^o^ I figure he'd know more (most, even) about which bits do what, how, why and with what size in Kanon ^^. I don't know much about the nitty-gritty technical side of games, I just install and play the things.

Jeez though, it's like the Sims, I got that and now I never play it because it takes up far too much HD space ;__;. Saddens me, I wanted to download anime skins for it and have mad yaoi households going on.

*random* KANON SIM SKINS

I wonder if they're out there...

adun50
2004-11-01, 14:54
well i think one reason for Clannad being on a DVD is the file formats they use but also the amount of music is used. The Clannad OST spans over 3 cds alone.

Aldareon
2004-11-01, 16:45
@_@... And wasn't Clannad on a DVD disk, despite not having voices? I'm cuuuuurious.
Ok - I know I said I'm enticed to buy the game, but I've decided to hold back my animal instincts 'till the translation project is nearly completed ^_^

Clannad doesn't have voices yet? Hmm .. then is it safe to assume that future releases of Clannad will come with voices on the PS2/Dreamcast but not on DVD?

Back to the issue of file sizes, I think that the voices and OST make the bulk of the packaging. Anybody got any ideas how much larger the games would be if KEY decided to upgrade the pics to a larger resolution? Like 1024x768x16 or 800x600x32, maybe?

zalas
2004-11-01, 20:44
AIR has about 400mb of compressed image files and 60mb of data and sound files (Blue Disc)
The Orange Disc is like a runtime copy check and is CDDA.

Kanon fit all on one CD, with image and everything taking about 200mb and CDDA for the rest.

Haeleth
2004-11-02, 04:35
If it's just because of low compression... I'm sure you could get near-equal quality for far smaller filesizes, enabling Clannad to be sold as a CD version as well. Why didn't this happen?
Yes, the compression isn't the best possible - for example, Clannad's scenario file is 5.5 megabytes, while WinRAR can crunch the same data down to 2.3 megabytes. But bear in mind that their priorities are different - the algorithm VisualArts use is LZ77, which produces larger files but can be decompressed very fast, whereas if they used the RAR algorithm you'd be waiting several seconds every time the scene changed.

And it's lossless, which is never good for graphics. If they used JPEGs, the size would be much smaller. But I think you can guess why they don't. ^^

I guess they could have used a lossy algorithm on the music (I think NWA is lossless), but you do get people who claim to be able to tell the difference...

Anybody got any ideas how much larger the games would be if KEY decided to upgrade the pics to a larger resolution?
Compare with Fate/stay night, which did just that (but used lossy Ogg Vorbis for the music, which compensated somewhat). Fate is 1.5 gigabytes.

Eden
2004-11-07, 12:11
Jeez though, it's like the Sims, I got that and now I never play it because it takes up far too much HD space ;__;. Saddens me, I wanted to download anime skins for it and have mad yaoi households going on.

*random* KANON SIM SKINS

I wonder if they're out there...

I've looked for these, i'm led to believe that, with current skin making, it'd be near impossible to make a accurate or decent one.

This is because, it'd be awquard to make things that stick out, like Nayuki's school uniform bow and such. Most so far, seem to just be recoloured versions of original clothing.

JudicatorOmega
2004-11-07, 14:07
*random* KANON SIM SKINS

I wonder if they're out there...
OMG, cool! Having anime characters as Sims might actually get me to play the game that I hate so much!

I feel like recreating the Hinata Apartments just for fun, even though I absolutely refuse to play the game. I gotta go find that abused CD now.

Edit: Hmm, now that I think about it, that will take too many custom textures.

Korgath
2004-11-07, 14:22
Do sims still take 3 hours to make breakfast whilst burning down the house due to their incompetent handling of such complex hardware as a microwave whilst also being depressed because they haven't seen someone outside of their profession for the last 2 days?

I felt bad for totalitarian regimes worldwide after playing The Sims.

Tabi
2004-11-11, 12:59
XD XD Lack of HD space issue aside, that's another thing that put me off the Sims. I spent ages tweaking with people to make as close a place populated by the characters from Sorcerer Hunters as I could... nice family household with Carrot, Marron, Onion and Apricot in, another with Dota and Sirius, and another with Radish and Celery in. Focus on the Glacé household; Onion gets a job, goes out to work. Marron does some cooking, sets the kitchen on fire; he burns to death, Carrot dies along with him, and Apricot dies trying to put the fire out. Onion comes home to a burning house and eventually dies himself.

(Given my attatchment to Sorcerer Hunters characters, I was quite disturbed by this development)

So Radish and Celery move into the Glacé household. They weep at the graves/urns of the Glacé family, Radish goes to do some cooking... sets kitchen on fire... he and Celery die...

Dota and Sirius then have the run of the neighbourhood, but by that point I lost any patience I'd had and uninstalled XD. The Radish thing was pretty ironic since the guy himself is a pyromaniac, so it was kinda a fitting death for him... but thinking about it, given my apparently pathetic Sims skills, maybe Kanon skins would be too traumatic XD;;. "See Akiko keep house. See Akiko cook. See Akiko set kitchen on fire. See Akiko burn to death. See Nayuki angst. Bad ending, no CG for you"

Maybe the jam could be implemented. Like how if you buy the picture with the clown in the clown comes out and kills people or something... if people eat Akiko's jam... SOMETHING HAPPENS...

AzureLight
2004-11-11, 23:33
if people eat Akiko's jam... SOMETHING HAPPENS...

Their Tiredness/Sleepy bar gets stuck at full red