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zalas
2004-09-25, 16:53
I just noticed this:
http://odin.prohosting.com/creign/Air/updates.html

Was this April 9th or September 4th?

AstCd2
2004-09-25, 18:47
Going by the update history on the Air TV and Movie websites, they weren't announced until early July. As the post mentions both, it's probably safe to assume it's September.

emperor
2004-09-25, 19:42
Just confirming that it's Sept...I checked his website like a month ago and then that update didn't exist yet. Furthermore there are 2 more things to proof it: on the start page the date is written 13/03/04 , which can considering the 04.09.04 from the update page only be the dd/mm/yy format. Also he wrote more than 4 months had passed so it has to be even more than 4 months to the last update which was 13/03/04.

Aldareon
2004-09-25, 20:09
So .. chaotic's still alive! I didn't even know that the air translation project was being worked on after the initial release. Oh well .. can't get my hopes down if they were never up in the first place ;)

K
2004-09-25, 21:07
Speaking of the initial release, I don't see that or the script anymore ;_;

Soulfang
2004-09-26, 04:28
EDIT: D'oh, they're still there. :P

http://odin.prohosting.com/creign/Air/transmain.html

zalas
2004-09-26, 11:04
You know... he still hasn't replied to my email yet (sent a few months ago offering help) ^^;

K
2004-09-26, 14:04
EDIT: D'oh, they're still there. :P

http://odin.prohosting.com/creign/Air/transmain.html

Thanks ^_^

emperor
2004-09-26, 14:33
You know... he still hasn't replied to my email yet (sent a few months ago offering help) ^^;
His "extremely sorry to those who were looking forward to updates, and also anyone who had sent me emails during this time" he probably means...he didn't recieve them or something like that, or won't look at them.

Dairu
2004-10-06, 12:03
well since his e-mail address, etc. aren't there, all i can do is post this here and hope that either he sees it or someone who knows him sees it and passes the message on... but if he sends me everything he has for the air translation, i will complete it for him...

THIS IS A SERIOUS OFFER!!!!!

my e-mail address is phoenix_rising_000@hotmail.com

i have both the time and the motivation to translate air or any game made by a company with the story telling skills of key visual arts

Guest
2004-10-07, 01:00
Im not sure about that one. Zalas tried mailing him about translating the rest of the game, but apparently he didn't reply

2004-10-25, 18:55
Quick question for you, zalas.

Which parts would you start work on? Im kind of interested in doing something similar to CR's work (Chinese to English) for the rest of Dream, then tossing the script around to people who can code it in (haven't the foggiest idea about coding seen.txt) come December, and it'll look pretty stupid if you guys have already finished with Kano and Minagi ^^;............

zalas
2004-10-26, 01:28
Right now I think I have enough translators for a Japanese translation of Kano and Minagi's scenario. However, if you want to provide the fandom with a translated-from-Chinese patch in the meantime, feel free to do so and I would actually encourage that as it lets fans enjoy parts of the game while they're waiting for a Japanese translation. Bug Haeleth for the goodies :)

I'm planning to get Kano and Minagi done first and then move onto Summer (headaches here we come -.-;;).

Aldareon
2004-10-26, 01:41
So .. the Air translation project ISN'T entirely hold! Just wondering - with Chaotic's unexpected disappearance, will the new translation team have to start from scratch?

2004-10-26, 02:09
Nope. Apparently zalas and his team are planning to merge with CR's translation and carry on. I think they should re-visit Misuzu's scenario after translating Summer and Air though. The grammar, phrasing and nuances still need ironing out, and the inclusion of notes on certain japanese terminology still needs work.

The inclusion of a translated OP ( a la Haeleth's Translation of Kanon) would be much appreciated too.

AstCd2
2004-10-26, 02:41
Well, we won't be able to merge his work into a single new patch without his permission. I suppose the alternative is to make a patch that goes over his patch, but I don't know how feasible that is. The plan at the moment seems to be to translate everything else first, and then if we still can't contact him, to re-do that part of Dream altogether from Japanese.

Valkyrie
2004-10-26, 23:39
hmmmm...if that part of Dream is redone, which form of EL would be used? British or American?

AstCd2
2004-10-27, 00:03
I'm thinking American. Anyone can speak American, but there aren't too many translators who can output into that strange language they speak over there in Britain =P

Haeleth
2004-10-27, 05:11
Why not compromise on one of the other English dialects? I gather Australian English falls somewhere between the two, and it might be quite appropriate - wouldn't "G'day" be the perfect translation of "gao"?

K
2004-10-27, 14:56
Not always ^_^;

adun50
2004-10-27, 15:59
Why not compromise on one of the other English dialects? I gather Australian English falls somewhere between the two, and it might be quite appropriate - wouldn't "G'day" be the perfect translation of "gao"?

yeah i can vouch for that. as for "G'day" be a translation for "gao" @_@

Aldareon
2004-10-27, 20:24
Gao?? Eh??
/me looks up dictionary.com .. .. .. ..
General Accounting Office?? Hmm. Must be an obsolete and out of touch dictionary ^_^

I think converting to Australian english might cause even more controversy/headaches. I can just see it - potato being referred to as a "dingo" and the main character goes to school with his "tucker" (as opposed to o-bento or lunchbox) ~_~
You wouldn't want that now, would you?

Well, we won't be able to merge his work into a single new patch without his permission. I suppose the alternative is to make a patch that goes over his patch, but I don't know how feasible that is. The plan at the moment seems to be to translate everything else first, and then if we still can't contact him, to re-do that part of Dream altogether from Japanese.
So you were never able to get permission to use the material. Guess it would be unethical to use it without permission. But the actual translation was done by another person wasn't it? I thought I read that in the readme somewhere ..

Anyhow, will it be safe to assume that the new translation patch will be compatible with the dreamcast/ps2 voice patch? I remember that some people had audio problems before.

Valkyrie
2004-10-27, 21:41
Admittedly true. Sticking to japanese terms for certain things like lunch box as o-bento would be better since it would sound more suitable in situations in Air.

Hmmm, I used PS2 voices on my PC version of Air and there seemed to be no problems. The voices worked fine with the current translation patch though. Could be due to some other technical error? I am not sure on this, since i have not encountered any audio problems so far.

adun50
2004-10-28, 00:41
Admittedly true. Sticking to japanese terms for certain things like lunch box as o-bento would be better since it would sound more suitable in situations in Air.

Hmmm, I used PS2 voices on my PC version of Air and there seemed to be no problems. The voices worked fine with the current translation patch though. Could be due to some other technical error? I am not sure on this, since i have not encountered any audio problems so far.

the reason you have no problem with audio is that Chaotic Region developed his translation patch to work with the PS2 voice patch. this particular voice patch is difficult to find around where as the DreamCast voice patch is distributed over P2P netowrks more frequently.

AzureLight
2004-10-28, 06:15
Sticking to japanese terms for certain things like lunch box as o-bento would be better since it would sound more suitable in situations in Air.

I second this notion - this is for the Air fans worldwide who grasp the Japanese essence of the game pretty well.

Korgath
2004-10-28, 14:35
Yukito: *chop*

Misuzu: "Oh crikey!"

Perfect, if I do say so myself.

2004-10-28, 17:22
[...](as opposed to o-bento or lunchbox) ~_~[...]
I'd just want to know why you say o-bento? I'd say obentou or obento- but not..o-bento. What kind of way of writing that is that? Havn't yet seen anybody else make a - between the politeness o (お/御) and the actual word and completely ignoring the fact of an ou. Is there anything I don't know yet as to this?

Valkyrie
2004-10-28, 18:31
Hmmm...I am not that good with Romanji, my apologies for that. -.-;

emperor
2004-10-28, 18:41
(The guest was me who forgot to login.) Yeah it seems to be true that you aren't good with ro-maji considerng I cannot even find an n when romanizing ローマ字 . And again you just ignore the long o sound. Sorry but the statement "people understand it anyways" doesn't convince me anymore. Ah sorry no I am not trying to make fun of you...really. Hope it doesn't seem that way. I'm just saying that if even you who thinks people know it is unaware as how to write it then there are probably people who don't know it at all...it often appears that way that people who know a few words would like those words to be left in Japanese but the problem is everybody has more, less or different knowledge so I do not believe just leaving obentou other other words as they are. Of course ...if they are explained somewhere (directly after it) or in the readme that it would be no problem, but I personally see no problem with the translation "lunchbox". Maybe it's because I am no native speaker that this word seems to be appropirate (as for English you probably know more than I do). Well maybe "gao" would be one of those "words" better explained than "translated".

AzureLight
2004-10-28, 19:11
I'd just want to know why you say o-bento? I'd say obentou or obento- but not..o-bento. What kind of way of writing that is that? Havn't yet seen anybody else make a - between the politeness o (お/御) and the actual word and completely ignoring the fact of an ou. Is there anything I don't know yet as to this?
I use o-/go- in my romanisation to denote the difference, but only for words that can also exist without the honorific (like, you don't see a 'kurosama' hanging around anywhere).

Valkyrie
2004-10-29, 03:12
Well, emperor, if Air has certain functions that exist in Kanon, it would be less of a problem for people who do not understand Japanese well enough to understand that word. If these words are translated into english as well, it would not sound correct in a way. It would be rather...let's just say it does not go with the game well?

Haeleth
2004-10-29, 07:19
The AIR translation efforts do have access to the hyperlink system, as that's built into the compiler; I think zalas also has the long note code, though I don't know whether he knows that. ;)
(<tt>TextOutNote()</tt> in <tt>sample/testprogram/src/kanon.kh</tt>, if you haven't found it yet.)

Of course, both "bento" and "lunch box" can go perfectly well side by side - the former to translate 弁当, the latter for 弁当箱. That's what I've been using, on the basis that the lunch box is a perfectly familiar object over here, it's only the contents that are exotic...

(Note the romanisation of [お]弁当, by the way! This particular word can be found in English dictionaries, so it makes sense to use the naturalised English form.)

emperor
2004-10-29, 08:59
I use o-/go- in my romanisation to denote the difference, but only for words that can also exist without the honorific (like, you don't see a 'kurosama' hanging around anywhere).
Well I see...That's why i was also asking if there was something I do not yet know. Well i consider it useless efford to do a - between the politeness 御 (お/ご) if you always have to think about the fact that it shouldn't change its meaning (like in 主人 and 御主人 which would actually change a little). But well, thanks for telling me about that, didn't read something like that yet (and well you cannot know unless you ask, somebody people always get thought differently...I even get thought to never ever think of getting rid of "ou" and writing it as "o" but rather do anything that makes the reader know there is a difference like o- , ou or ó or ô). Well I guess I should've better kept quiet, after all I am already beeing accused of defending something "that doesn't sound right".

Aldareon
2004-10-29, 17:23
Woah! I had no idea that my spelling was going to start a bit of a discussion. Looks like Azu-chan took the heat instead - Thanks for that! ^_^

I've always read the romanization and hiragana as being "obento" but this time I've decided to make a slight change and differentiate the honorific. It's the same reason as Azu-chan's. It's just a way I remind myself that the root word is "bento" - didn't realize it 'till about two years later when I came across a person who described it as a plain "bento". Sorry for the confusion!

Anyhow, about the translation patch - the current one works with the PS2 voices, right? What's the difference between the two varieties of voice patches, and is one better than the other?

AstCd2
2004-10-29, 21:13
Anyhow, about the translation patch - the current one works with the PS2 voices, right?

Yep.

What's the difference between the two varieties of voice patches, and is one better than the other?

I wouldn't know for sure, but I don't think there is any difference - at least dialoguewise. I suppose it's conceivable that the PS2 version had better sound, but the rest is probably down to coding.

Valkyrie
2004-10-30, 04:35
well...PS2 voices includes Yukito's voice as well, while the DC version does not have Yukito's voice. Sound quality wise...i have no idea though.

adun50
2004-10-30, 07:12
another difference in the two voice patches are the structure in which the voices are stored. that is why the translation patch will not work with the Dreamcast version. although it will work, it will just play the wrong voices

2004-10-30, 07:21
But is it possible to 'force' them to work? if you decompress either voices and encode them into the proper wave files (with the appropriate file and folder names, of course), wouldn't they work then?

Haeleth
2004-10-30, 15:47
Oh, sure, it would be possible - all you'd have to do would be to rename 25,000-odd files. :p

Far simpler just to support the DC patch in the first place. It's only a case of disassembling a DC-patched game, copying the translated script files across, and recompiling. I believe the only reason ChaoticReign never did that is that he never got hold of the copy of the DC voice patch he'd need to do it.

Unfortunately, it's a bit hard to do it for him in his absence, but something could probably be arranged if he reappears, or if zalas and his team get to a suitable stage without him.

2004-11-07, 11:45
hey does anyone know where is ulysseslin's chinese patch for AIR? or is it only a translation, not like odins patch?

AstCd2
2004-11-07, 14:35
hey does anyone know where is ulysseslin's chinese patch for AIR? or is it only a translation, not like odins patch?

If I recall correctly, Ulysseslin's translation is just a script; there's no patch version of it, although arguably it would not be too difficult to turn into a patch.

A copy of the script can be found here:
http://man.ptt.cc/man.pl/Key/D315/D362/

2004-11-08, 01:56
Only problem is that its in 繁体字 (Chinese Traditional), and isn't as widely used out of Taiwan and Hong Kong so it could be a problem for most people who know Standard (Simplified) Chinese. It kinda burns on the eyes to figure out what the words mean ^^;

I originally planned to work on that thing after my O levels (DIE, CAMBRIDGE!), but am unsure whether it'll be worth my time if zalas and friends has already progressed heavily into Dream.....

Maybe I should begin with Summer? How far has the translation gone?

2004-11-08, 02:01
EDIT for the previous Guest post:

The link AstCd2 provided has Simplified Chinese -_-

Guess I really don't have a reason not to get cracking. Oh well... *sighs* Anyway, to zalas and the rest of the team, you don't mind putting my script in if I've managed to complete it? It'll be something like a speedsub, of course. I know nuts about Haeleth's Compiler and lack any sort of programming knowledge ^^;;;

zalas
2004-11-08, 02:37
I would recommend not doing Summer since 1) it's painful and 2) a J->C->E translation would most likely kill a lot of the meaning. As for where we are, we just sort of do it at our own pace, given the amount of free time we have (not much ^^; ) Furthermore, we're still trying to iron out style problems early so that we don't have to do a lot of rewriting later on. If you're going to go ahead and work on it, see if you can tackle the common script files first, since we haven't started looking at those yet.

2004-11-08, 02:43
I'll be just using the script from the site AstCd2 has mentioned and churning out a similar text document, so I'm not too sure what you imply by "common script files". I'll be running the game concurrently by the side to see if it can fit in.

I'll give it a go and try to produce something, given the amount of free time (about 1 month, and I kinda lack a social life ^^;) I have. If I can keep a reasonable pace, I'll pass the scripts to you guys for cross-referance with the Japanese Original.

If its not up to standard, guess I'll have to wait for you guys to do your job :P

AstCd2
2004-11-08, 03:40
I'll be just using the script from the site AstCd2 has mentioned and churning out a similar text document, so I'm not too sure what you imply by "common script files". I'll be running the game concurrently by the side to see if it can fit in.


'Common script files' refers to the part of the story which all three heroines share; in the other words, the 前段故事 folder.

I don't mean to sound discouraging, but I'm not sure whether it would actually be worth your time to translate the rest of Dream from Ulysseslin's script, as this is essentially what ChaoticReign has already done and turned into patch form.


Maybe I should begin with Summer? How far has the translation gone?

You can try, but frankly it's pretty awkward even from Japanese ^^;;
The translation is progressing quite well, though I'd say you've got a pretty good chance of seeing Key's next work come out before we're done.

P.S.
On a related note, I remember hearing about a Chinese Clannad translation effort some time ago. Does anyone have any news on how that's going?

Valkyrie
2004-11-08, 03:57
...........so you don't mind us trying? Hopefully, we can produce something with some standard. :P

Haeleth
2004-11-08, 07:46
The translation is progressing quite well, though I'd say you've got a pretty good chance of seeing Key's next work come out before we're done.
Well, obviously - I don't think anyone was expecting you to finish it in the next 21 days. :p

2004-11-08, 07:47
'Common script files' refers to the part of the story which all three heroines share; in the other words, the 前段故事 folder.

I don't mean to sound discouraging, but I'm not sure whether it would actually be worth your time to translate the rest of Dream from Ulysseslin's script, as this is essentially what ChaoticReign has already done and turned into patch form.


......... which only covers Misuzu. Valkyrie and I are currently having a go at the script for Summer (nothing serious yet, we've still got exams ^^;), though I think I can still squeeze in some time to work on the "common script files"



You can try, but frankly it's pretty awkward even from Japanese ^^;;
The translation is progressing quite well, though I'd say you've got a pretty good chance of seeing Key's next work come out before we're done.


Believe me, we know ^^;
Some of the words (especially the sarcasm) doesn't translate too well, so we'll try to iron out the problems within ourselves to stick as close to the translation as possible and yet remain as coherent English. If there's any really major problems with the terms and nuances, we'll drop you guys a line from the "Air fanpage". Don't mind us if we're too much of a bother :P

AstCd2
2004-11-08, 14:26
The translation is progressing quite well, though I'd say you've got a pretty good chance of seeing Key's next work come out before we're done.
Well, obviously - I don't think anyone was expecting you to finish it in the next 21 days. :p

Gah, that was a bit of an oversight on my part =P
What I had in mind was the 'next work' that Maeda had mentioned for next year.

......... which only covers Misuzu. Valkyrie and I are currently having a go at the script for Summer (nothing serious yet, we've still got exams ^^;), though I think I can still squeeze in some time to work on the "common script files"

Sure, have fun. I'm sure Haeleth could help you out with the compiling should you wish to turn it into a patch.

zalas
2004-11-08, 19:04
Well, obviously - I don't think anyone was expecting you to finish it in the next 21 days. :p
*cranks out the motorcycle*
Get crankin' AstCd2!
/me runs

AstCd2
2004-11-08, 19:51
Well, obviously - I don't think anyone was expecting you to finish it in the next 21 days. :p
*cranks out the motorcycle*
Get crankin' AstCd2!
/me runs

が...がお
アストちん、ピンチかも

Keisuke
2004-11-08, 21:15
Asuto chan?

Who is that? =B

Haeleth
2004-11-09, 04:08
Look at his username and see if you can figure it out. :p

2004-11-09, 05:12
Heh...... but don't get into so big of a pinch that you guys mess up

Take it slow (but not too slow, of course :P) and you guys would have more time to smoothen the rough edges out. Don't be too pressurised that everyone's waiting for your patch hungrily.

..........oops, shouldn't have said that last line ^^;

Keisuke
2004-11-09, 07:19
Look at his username and see if you can figure it out. :p

XP

Aldareon
2004-11-09, 16:11
heh heh .. I misread it as Asuto-chin! I guess Keisuke couldn't figure it out because 'ni' was omitted! Then that would be Asuto-ni-chan ^_^

Haeleth
2004-11-09, 16:28
heh heh .. I misread it as Asuto-chin!
Er... that's what it says.

Keisuke
2004-11-09, 17:24
heh heh .. I misread it as Asuto-chin! I guess Keisuke couldn't figure it out because 'ni' was omitted! Then that would be Asuto-ni-chan ^_^

You did read it right... I just mistyped it... or I thought I saw や on the middle... *runs*

BTW Haeleth, sorry about going off topic, but who's that gal (your avatar)? I think I saw her some where... Or maybe not...

Haeleth
2004-11-09, 18:16
BTW Haeleth, sorry about going off topic, but who's that gal (your avatar)? I think I saw her some where... Or maybe not...
Haruna Osaka from Princess Bride. Not the best game ever, but it does have nice character design. ^^

*racks brains for on-topic comment*

Oh, that's right... I wanted to ask Zalas if he'd thought about subbing AIR's intro at all. Doing it in code would probably be quite difficult, though I'd be willing to look at it for a laugh. The easier approach would be to capture it to an AVI, sub that in the usual way, and replace the whole intro sequence with a <tt>movPlayExC</tt> call for the subbed version... that would mean huge downloads, of course...

Thoughts?

Aldareon
2004-11-09, 20:56
You did read it right... I just mistyped it... or I thought I saw や on the middle... *runs*
Eh? guess I'm too gullible ^_^

capture it to an AVI, sub that in the usual way, and replace the whole intro sequence with a movPlayExC call for the subbed version... that would mean huge downloads
This approach would require the avi file to be downloaded, right? Wouldn't this cause more issues with copyright as an actual part of the game is being exported? (I hope this doesn't spark the fansub issue yet again ~_~)

zalas
2004-11-09, 23:22
I plan on doing it with code. It didn't look that hard, as long as the grpCopy (I think that was the name of it) translucency thing is supported under AIR's version of AVG32. I'd stay away from MPEG4 AVIs if possible, it's too big and it's lossy.

Haeleth
2004-11-10, 06:22
AIR uses the latest version of AVG32, so all the transparency options are supported. The tricky part I had in mind was finding somewhere to put the graphics - AIR's OP uses all eight DCs already.

K
2004-11-10, 15:30
If I recall correctly, Ulysseslin's translation is just a script; there's no patch version of it, although arguably it would not be too difficult to turn into a patch.

Huh. Anyone willing to turn it into patch form then? That'd be great ^_^;

2004-11-10, 15:50
Im working on it! Im working on it!

And hopefully we'll be faster than zalas and his team :P
Its meant to be something in the same vein as a speedsub (till zalas gets the real Japanese>> English version out), so expect the odd inaccuracy here and there.

Forgive me if I make to many mistakes ^^;

AstCd2
2004-11-10, 18:07
Just a thought before you begin: you may want to write to Ulysseslin and ask for permission to adapt his script into English. The guy spent a lot of time on it, so I'm sure he'd appreciate that.

2004-11-10, 19:16
Hmm...... I guess so. I'll send him a note if we make significant progress.

Else, asking for his permission then dropping the project would seem like a definite waste of time ^^;

2004-11-10, 20:32
EDIT: Scooping out his email's harder than i thought -_-
Seems as though he's not the kind that likes to leave contact addresses lying around...

Valkyrie
2004-11-11, 04:39
hmmmm...can't seem to find anyway to contact him so far though...-.-"

K
2004-11-11, 16:18
I actually meant just hacking the Chinese into the game in the form of a patch >_>

2004-11-11, 17:22
That would take someone with at least some knowledge of Chinese, Japanese AND English to stay around on this forum. Not to mention SOME knowledge of how Haeleth's Avg32 works.

Not too many people with that ability, let alone being willing to do it :P