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K
2004-05-08, 07:59
This isn't a complaint thread about how I can't play Clannad, I seriously want to, but I have no idea how to get started on it.

Anyone here who's managed to learn the language (and isn't a native speaker), got suggestions?

Thanks in advance all ^_^;

(I know it won't be easy, but I'll try as hard as I can.)

Haeleth
2004-05-08, 08:30
Well, the way I did it was by getting a pile of dictionaries, grammars, and tutorials, teaching myself the basics, and then sitting down with some Japanese text, trying to translate it, and asking on various message boards when I couldn't work something out.

Stuff I find/found useful:
Takasugi Shinji's tutorial (http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/~ts/japanese/) (covers the basics very well, also has a useful links section)

Kanji & Kana (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0804820775/qid=1084029228/sr=8-13/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i13_xgl14/102-0044594-3872167?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) (a decent guide to Japanese writing, although it looks like the new edition has a horrible cover)
A basic dictionary (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/4770024800/qid=1084029344/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3__i3_xgl14/102-0044594-3872167?v=glance&s=books) (none of the small Japanese dictionaries are much good, but this one is better than most)

JWPce (http://www.physics.ucla.edu/~grosenth/jwpce.html) (a free Japanese text editor with built-in dictionary and kanji lookup)
英辞郎 (http://www.alc.co.jp/) (a free online dictionary with more idiomatic expressions than most)
goo 辞書 (http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/) (a more serious free online dictionary)
Kenkyusha online (http://kod.kenkyusha.co.jp/) (the best online dictionary, but it's a subscription service costing about $5/mo)

Human Japanese forum (http://www.humanjapanese.com/forum/) (a language learners' board; I haven't been there in years, but it used to be a pretty good place for beginners' questions)
Japanese board at animelyrics (http://www.animelyrics.com/forum/board_show.pl?bid=8) (a good place for more advanced questions, but newcomers get flamed rather easily; read the top thread carefully and lurk a while before posting)

However, I'd like to emphasise that teaching yourself is not a good approach. I only got away with it because I have a background in linguistics, and even then I'm not too good on the spoken language; unless you have or are working for a languages degree, you'll probably find it pretty tough to learn the grammar without a structured course.

So what I actually recommend is working through Takasugi's tutorial to give yourself some idea of what the language is like and how hard you'll find it to learn, and then if you want to go on and learn it properly, take a class. If you're not at school or your school doesn't offer it, your local college might offer one to the public.

Stranger
2004-05-08, 09:16
Haeleth another thank you to you :-)

I been wandering why my hiragana reading never give's the correct sound to a word... I've been memorizing them with the wrong sound... now I have to start all over again :-(

Oh well... thanks again man, espcialy for the Teach Yourself Japanese link

K
2004-05-08, 13:51
Thanks a ton, I'll be working on it whenever I get time ^_^

JudicatorOmega
2004-06-24, 17:26
Hey, I know this topic is pretty old, but I just wanted to mention that I found this interesting little game that effectively helps you learn Katakana, Hiragana, and a (very) few Kanjis. This game has already helped me to learn 83 Katakanas and 43 Hiraganas. At my learning rate, I guess I will be moving on to Kanjis in a week or so.

Project LRNJ - http://lrnj.com/

Oh yea, and you forgot to mention the Kanji Site http://www.kanjisite.com/, I personally thought this was an important site.

Stranger
2004-06-24, 23:24
Project LRNJ - http://lrnj.com/wow, I like this one already (even though it is starting with Katakana, and I've been spending time learning Hiragana). Thanks for the link, looks like lots of fun. I was already thinking about doing something to try to help me read hiragana randomely, but this game does the job already ;-)

P.S. A topic is never to old, it just that the people who were posting in it said what the wanted to say, and now have nothing to add. So whoever out there have other stuff for learn Japanese please do post, we are still trying to learn (おねがい).

Weave
2004-06-25, 00:01
The main thing is constant practice. Japanese ain't like riding a bike, for everyday you don't study you lose two you do.

The best hardcopy dictionarys I've found are in Japan, and those are written in Hiragana/Katakana so they're abit advanced.

A good way to stay sharp is to get some manga and read it everyday. If you want some practice, find a song you like in Japanese and translate it on your offtime. It's not the easiest hobby, but most songs use alot of the same words, so you get a decent vocabulary base pretty quickly.

Weave
2004-06-25, 00:07
hey Boss, what do you think of Jim Breen's WWWJDIC http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/wwwjdic.html

Aldareon
2004-06-25, 02:20
I used to use that and this one:
http://www.freedict.com/onldict/jap.html

It's simple, but I use those two whenever I don't have my dictionary with me but am near a computer terminal (which really is most of the time). Now where can I get those small portable ones??

I haven't used Jim's dictionary in quite a while, but from my recollections it used to take about 2~5 minutes for a result during peak times. However, it is more complete in my opinion

Haeleth
2004-06-25, 02:21
Both use EDICT, which means the quality is very patchy. (For example, if you look up 羽根, it gives "shuttlecock" - but the word means "feather"!)

I used to use it a fair bit, but these days my order of choice for online dictionaries is Kenkyusha Online -> Goo 辞書 -> 英辞郎 (all as linked above).

AzureLight
2004-06-25, 07:04
I overabuse Jim Breen and Freedict. -_-

JudicatorOmega
2004-06-27, 00:28
I have learned 83 katakanas, 55 hiraganas, and 46 kanjis so far. But the only actualy japanese words I know are baka (idiot? moron? retard?) and okasa (mother). I have some important questions that maybe you guys can answer.

Is there really only 83 katakana and 55 hiragana? Shouldn't there be an equal amount of both, or is that because the kanjis are pronounced with the missing hiragana syllables? The game I play only teaches me the english meanings of the kanjis, so I cannot read them, but only understand what they mean.

When attempting to read loan words (katakana) I keep seeing a dash at the middle or at the end of the word. Nobody ever told me what that meant, so I can never cast a spell (in the game).

What is a good way to practice my new learned hiragana and katakana reading skills? Everybody uses Kanji and I don't know how to seperate words because I don't see any spaces in between them at all. I understand that the transition from hiragana, katakana, & kanjis are word seperators themselves, but there must be cases with 2 hiragana words used one after the other right?

Surely 8000+ kanjis is not possible is it??? There is only so many ways you can write a series of lines in a small space. If I was asked to make 8000 unique patterns on a 24x24 dot grid, I would go insane after just 3000. Is Kanji some kind of a joke? Hiragana looks good enough to be an alphabet already, why use kanji?

Stranger
2004-06-27, 00:50
I think there are 81 Hiragana and Katakana, for each Haragana there is a Katakana, so that mean you are missing some Haragana (I recomand the Teach Yourself Japanese Link above). As for using space...P.S.S. What the heck do Japanese people have agenst the space key??!!!!
Well, why bother wasting space on a page by putting big gaps between words, when you can tell where important word breaks come by looking for the transition between kana and kanji? Plus it makes life harder for those pesky foreigners, of course... :p

<tt>IFYOUWANTHARDTOREADTRYTHEOLDROMANSTY
LEWITHALLCAPITALLETTERSNOSPACESORPUN
CTUATIONANDLINEBREAKSWHEREVERTHEYHAP
PENTOFALLAPPARENTLYTHEYTHOUGHTITLOOK
EDNICEAHAHATHOSECRAZYANCIENTROMANSEH</tt>as for practicing... I am practicing with Clannad... it is very slow, and sometime gives me a headache... but hey... you can actuly read few words after a while... ofcouce there is no way of knowing if what you read is correct or not ;-)

Also I recommand playing RAW Kanon with the voice patch installed... and watching anime while listining to what the charecters say

Aldareon
2004-06-27, 01:19
I keep seeing a dash at the middle or at the end of the word. Nobody ever told me what that meant, so I can never cast a spell.
It's nothing special. Just an extension of the word, like Omega~ would be more like Omegaa. Just be aware that the kanji for "one" is also a dash (with "two" being an equal sign and "three" being the implied symbol - three horizontal lines)

why use kanji?
You might call it ironic, but the answer would be "for simplicity" ^_^
Kanji is used to shorten the amount of space taken in writing. Lots of Kanji can replace the function of at least two katakanas/hiraganas combined. Also, the shapes can have symbolic meanings - like when you specify the date in Jap format, it uses the sun symbol for day and moon symbol for month, or yama (mountain) looks like a mountain with three peaks. Finally, the kanji can also differentiate between the different meanings of the same word.

Gotta admit though, the sheer number of those Kanji are a huge turn off. A tip I was given by a friend was to learn about 3 or 5 symbols a week, with words to associate the symbols. Maybe I should have taken his advice .. but that's a different story ^_^

Weave
2004-06-27, 01:54
yeah, after awhile, you prefer kanji since the meaning won't change.

For an example, think of the word "safe". There are dozens of definitions of that word, but a picture can only mean one thing.

adun50
2004-06-27, 03:48
Just be aware that the kanji for "one" is also a dash (with "two" being an equal sign and "three" being the implied symbol - three horizontal lines)

i learnt this from reading a menu at a chinese restaurant, lol

i recommend what Stranger sugested, play either Kanon or Air with the voice patch but in original Japanese, you'll pick up certain words easier from knowing what they sound like as well. after so much anime in my lifetime, i've come to pick up words here and there and that does help in reading.

AzureLight
2004-06-27, 06:17
Nothing beats formal classes though... I hope I get one someday ;_;

Haeleth
2004-06-28, 15:08
<random rant>
The other problem is that All Dictionaries Suck(tm).

It's true, as I've just discovered. There's this word 現国, right. It's the name of a school lesson; you'd think it'd be in a dictionary. But the only dictionary I can find with it in is Daijirin.

Daijirin claims it's read うつし-くに (http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/search.php?MT=%B8%BD%B9%F1&kind=jn), which appears to be an obscure poetic term, denoting the temporal world of men, used in certain Shinto prayers. Last time I checked this was not a central part of the Japanese syllabus.

Eventually, trawling through Google results reveals that it's actually an abbreviation for 現在国語, meaning simply "modern Japanese". Quite why this was not thought worth including in any dictionaries I'm not sure, particularly when they have no trouble making room for (pauses for breath) obscure poetic terms denoting the temporal world of men used in certain Shinto prayers!

It's not even as though lexicographers are unaware of the problem (http://www.gally.net/leavings/00/0036.html).

*sigh*...
</random rant>

Korokoro
2004-06-28, 17:26
Do what I did when I was trying to learn English. Watch TV all day long! And in Japanese it's even better since many things you can watch is anime! Watching Kanon anime all day long might be helpful. But that'll really only improve your speech...

Aldareon
2004-06-28, 19:56
Anime isn't the only good thing on Jap TV .. what about those wacky/silly game shows like the takeshi series? Then there's the tv commercials that would make me feel mortified to be in but still gives me the kicks .. you know .. the ones with the cheesy music and almost always end with HUGE words for the name of the product being advertised (even better when there's an "engrish" attempt of a catch-phrase added to it)

adun50
2004-06-28, 19:57
Anime isn't the only good thing on Jap TV .. what about those wacky/silly game shows? Then there's the tv commercials that would make me feel mortified to be in but still gives me the kicks .. you know .. the ones with the cheesy music and almost always end with HUGE words for name the product being advertised (even better when there's an "engrish" attempt of a catch-phrase added to it)

you mean stuff like Takeshi's Castle?? oh that stuff was so cool, although had no idea what they were on about but the stuff they did. as for adds, DOMO-KUN!!

Aldareon
2004-06-28, 20:01
heh heh .. I added takeshi as part of my edit just as you posted ^_^

This is like the THIRD time I felt like making an edit only to find somebody else was already writing a reply. First two times by Haeleth .. the boss sure can type a long reply pretty fast! I should really make use of the preview option ..

Korokoro
2004-06-28, 20:17
Anime isn't the only good thing on Jap TV .. what about those wacky/silly game shows like the takeshi series? Then there's the tv commercials that would make me feel mortified to be in but still gives me the kicks .. you know .. the ones with the cheesy music and almost always end with HUGE words for the name of the product being advertised (even better when there's an "engrish" attempt of a catch-phrase added to it)

Yeah, but you can't get Jap TV in America (Unless you get sattelite TV or something, but I heard that's really expensive), and unless you go to a Japanese store and rent those Jap videos, you can't get Jap gameshows or commercials. While anime is easier to get, and they come with english captions, for somethings you don't understand, and you just can't figure out.

Weave
2004-06-28, 23:23
eh, commercials are commercials whereever you go. The ones in Japan and Korea use alot more CG, but you always get those wierd ones that make you just shake your head in confusion.
Yes, the game shows are hillarious, but the dramas are nice.

Korokoro
2004-06-29, 00:00
Yeah... Korea and Japan have a whole new different kind of game show compared to America. Acutally, most American game shows are those quiz game shows, and in the other hand Korea and Japan game shows have a lot more action to it. Acutally I just watched a Korean game show just now. Quite funny... And I am Korean, and quite fluent in it.

Weave
2004-06-29, 16:00
I like Korean cause I could read it the second day I was in Korea. It's a very compact, easy to read language. Speaking it on the other hand, is very difficult from what I've heard. I'd go back at the drop of a hat though, the food's the best.

Korokoro
2004-06-29, 16:36
But the very very hard part is writing. Since they are many rules on grammar for Korean. I personally think Chinese would be the hardest to learn. Look at all those letters... -.-;;

K
2004-06-29, 18:02
Look at all those letters... -.-;;

What letters?

Korokoro
2004-06-29, 18:10
Chinese letters...

adun50
2004-06-29, 18:48
Chinese letters...

i think you mean chinese kanji, yes it is a little difficult, but practice makes perfect

Korokoro
2004-06-29, 18:55
It's not really practice, you just have to memorize most of them.

JudicatorOmega
2004-06-29, 19:25
Hey guys, check out this Easy Kana Workbook (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0844285323/qid=1088560859/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-2692254-1816749?v=glance&s=books&n=507846). I just got mine at Borders today. This book teaches you how to "draw" the all of the hiragana and katakana, but do I need a special pen to do it? I want to learn how to read & write simple Japanese by the end of summer. I am told that the grammer is actually easier than English.

Don't discourage me here, I want to learn this stuff so badly. ^_^

Aldareon
2004-06-29, 19:42
the food's the best.
I've tried sooo many times to appreciate korean food .. it's just that all I've had so far are extremely strong on the spices. Any hints on what's a good on a menu?
i think you mean chinese kanji
Kanji IS chinese .. right? Just the way some (not all) of the characters are pronounced and some of the meanings are different according to the language, but the image is still the same.

Anyhow, back on the subject of Japanese, why is "wa" when used in a sentence as a particle to separate subject and predicate spelt "ha" in hiragana??

Weave
2004-06-29, 22:04
Yeah, I like spicy food though. Bulgogi, sundubu, and chapsubop are my faves. Japanese food is good, but after the sweatfest in Korea they taste bland. I do love curry though.........drool...........curry.........

:P......

Haeleth
2004-06-30, 01:18
Kanji IS chinese .. right? Just the way some (not all) of the characters are pronounced and some of the meanings are different according to the language, but the image is still the same.
Mostly, yes, although the forms aren't identical any more (the Japanese government simplified a number of shapes after WW2, and the PRC made their own, different simplifications, and Taiwan and Korea still use the traditional shapes). Pronunciation is almost totally different depending on language.

There isn't a good word for them. "Kanji" is Japanese, so the Chinese rather understandably object to using it in the context of Chinese. "Han characters" is a straight translation of the name, but it's also inaccurate (the Han didn't invent them, and there are characters used in Japan and Vietnam which have never existed in China); "Chinese letters" is problematic for the same reason. "CJK ideographs", or sometimes "CJKV ideographs", is quite common, although it invariably prompts pedants to object that they're not really ideographs...

Anyhow, back on the subject of Japanese, why is "wa" when used in a sentence as a particle to separate subject and predicate spelt "ha" in hiragana??
For the same reason that there's a <gh> in "night". ;)

More specifically, it used to be pronounced "fa" (which is what "ha" represented at the time), but when the spellings were modernised they kept the archaic spellings for particles, probably because someone thought they'd be easier to read.

Korokoro
2004-06-30, 15:32
Yeah, I like spicy food though. Bulgogi, sundubu, and chapsubop are my faves. Japanese food is good, but after the sweatfest in Korea they taste bland. I do love curry though.........drool...........curry.........

:P......

What nationality are you? I heard there are many Korean restaurants opening in Japan because it was getting really popular there...

Weave
2004-06-30, 21:20
I'm a Mountaineer, from West Virginia. If you must know, I'm white. I just get around a bit, thats all. In Misawa there are one or two Korean resturants, but I haven't been to them yet. For the same reason when I go back home I don't eat Chiniese or Japanese food, it sucks more often than not.
McDonalds here tastes way different than back in the states. They use a much different oil for the fries and the sizes are much smaller. I don't even see the point of getting burgers here. I didn't travel halfway across the world just so I can eat American junk food ya know.

zalas
2004-07-01, 12:27
There isn't a good word for them. "Kanji" is Japanese, so the Chinese rather understandably object to using it in the context of Chinese. "Han characters" is a straight translation of the name, but it's also inaccurate (the Han didn't invent them, and there are characters used in Japan and Vietnam which have never existed in China); "Chinese letters" is problematic for the same reason. "CJK ideographs", or sometimes "CJKV ideographs", is quite common, although it invariably prompts pedants to object that they're not really ideographs...

I believe Chinese people online use the term 'Hanzi' since that's the Chinese pinyin "romanization" of the term. As for the Han, I believe the Han dynasty did come up with the modern incarnation of the characters. At least in the previous dynasty, they were using a much more archaic form of writing, which resembled kinbuntai in style. I may be wrong on the Han dynasty part tho :/ Furthermore, Chinese people refer to the main dominant race as the 'Han' race, so even if it wasn't the Han dynasty, the terminology is probably still appropriate.

Stranger
2004-07-07, 22:04
why do some charecter in a game use kanji, while other use hiragana??

example:
I > 私 > わたし (wa ta shi)
what > 何 > なに (na ni)

while I am at it, why do some female charecters say あたし (a ta shi) while others say わたし (wa ta shi)... does it signifie anything??!!

and why the heck in "baka" spelled in katakana and not hiragana?? (I always thought it was a Japanese word).

Haeleth
2004-07-08, 03:27
why do some charecter in a game use kanji, while other use hiragana??
Sometimes it suggests a different way of saying the word. For example, young children's speech is often written with more kana than kanji, to reflect the fact that they don't know much kanji.

It's probably more subtle than that, I can't say I fully understand all the nuances...

why do some female charecters say あたし (a ta shi) while others say わたし (wa ta shi)... does it signifie anything?
Yes - 私 is basically neutral, but あたし is girly and informal.

why the heck in "baka" spelled in katakana and not hiragana?? (I always thought it was a Japanese word).
It isn't always written in katakana. Google throws up 500,000 hits for ばか and 1,200,000 for 馬鹿, as well as 2,000,000 for バカ.

As for why it's ever written in katakana, well, the origin of the word is disputed - some people think it comes from the Spanish vaca. More to the point, however, katakana isn't only used for foreign words. Animal names are often written in katakana, leading to wonderful sentences like "ニホンヤモリ、クロイワトカゲモドキ、ホオグロヤモリ、オンナダケヤモリ、エンザンヤモリ、サエズリヤモリ、トッケイ・・・" (a genuine quote containing exclusively Japanese words). And foreign words aren't always written in katakana, either - one often sees タバコ written たばこ, or even 煙草.

Stranger
2004-07-08, 03:58
thanks once more, <strike>this might also explain why "ri" is always writen in katakana, and <u>almost</u> never in hiragana (I am limited to the games I have, and this is based on the games that I am trying)</strike> (update: as zalas pointed out below, I was reading it wrongly.)

katakana isn't only used for foreign wordsdamn... I was already wandering if I will be able to walk around katakana for a while. But looks like I will have to learn it any way :-(

OmgWtfLolz X
2004-07-08, 06:11
why do some charecter in a game use kanji, while other use hiragana??
Sometimes it suggests a different way of saying the word. For example, young children's speech is often written with more kana than kanji, to reflect the fact that they don't know much kanji.


Foreigners' too, like Saber's in Fate, which has Shirou in kana.

For some games, it's due to the screen size, or the target audience. The ロックマンエグゼ series for the GBA, for example, has barely any kanji at all.

A quick transcript of part of the ending of ロックマンエグゼ 4:

リーガル「とめるロボットこうがくの科学者をついほうしあくのみちへとはしらせた」
リーガル「ついほうされた科学者はワタシがかってちちとよんだオトコだ…」
祐一朗「ま、まさかおまえは…」
リーガル「フッ、今となってはどうでもよいコトだ…」
リーガル「はなしをもどそうか…」
リーガル「人間というものはしらないうちに ツミをあかしているもの…」
リーガル「…つまりはだ、キミたちもまたざいにんなのだよ」
リーガル「なに、キミたちだけではない すべての人間がそうなのだよ」
リーガル「ましてや、ざいにんでめる 」
リーガル「人間がべつの人間をさばこうなどおこがましいとはおもわんかれ?」
リーガル「だからワタシはタイホされることをこばむのだ」
リーガル「ワタシはダレにもさばかれることはない」
リーガル「ワタシはじぶんのしんねんをつらぬいて きえることをえらぶのだ」
リーガル「ワタシがきえても… 「あく」はけっしてきえることはない」
リーガル「さらばだ…」
熱斗「まて!リーガル!!」

As you can see, aside from
"科学者", "今", and "人間", no kanji is used at all (the names don't count- they just use character portraits in the game).

zalas
2004-07-08, 13:21
thanks once more, this might also explain why "ri" is always writen in katakana, and <u>almost</u> never in hiragana (I am limited to the games I have, and this is based on the games that I am trying)

I'm not sure what you mean by that. In a lot of games I played, in order to form compound verbs, り is used a lot. Note that it does look a lot like a リ.

Stranger
2004-07-08, 22:04
I'm not sure what you mean by that. In a lot of games I played, in order to form compound verbs, り is used a lot. Note that it does look a lot like a リ.opps sorry, my bad, I always thought that り (ri) should have both lines connected, the end of the left strok starts the second strok, or to be more acurate, I always thought it was a single strok, so whenever I saw the 2 stroks I always assumed that it was katakana. Sorry again, and thanks for the help.

update: Just tryed to see how ri is writen in the "Teach Yourself Japanese site", and it is writen in 2 strokes.... makes me wander why the hand writen hiragana charecters list copy I have shows ri as a single storke.

Haeleth
2004-07-09, 08:50
Just tried to see how ri is writen in the "Teach Yourself Japanese site", and it is writen in 2 strokes.... makes me wonder why the hand written hiragana characters list copy I have shows ri as a single stroke.
It's just alternative ways of writing the character - we have loads of them in English too, like the printed "a" that doesn't really look like a handwritten "a", or the way some people write "4" so that it doesn't join at the top, and some people write "7" and "z" with a dash across them. Or even just the difference between printing and joined-up handwriting!

If you want to be really confused about kana, look up how to write ふ. I expect most people are taught to do it in four strokes, but personally I end up writing it in just one or two. But then I write は in one stroke too, so maybe I'm just a messy writer... ^^;

Stranger
2004-07-28, 05:58
another nice game (made by Collest (http://www.coolest.com/)) to try, it is called Kanji Trainer Penpen (http://www.coolest.com/penpen/)... it actuly a bit fun to play with ;-)

Aldareon
2004-07-28, 06:28
Hey, that's cool! I'll definitely be giving it a try. It's nice that the company's willing to make the software free and easily modified. Quite innovative. I wonder how long it will take me to learn all those 500 characters ..

Stranger
2004-09-01, 00:26
the following is extracted from "Ultimate Japanese (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0609607367/qid=1094023378/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/002-0861555-9176059?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)" Lesson 8:

The katakana characters are used primarily for:
writing words borrowed from other languages
giving special emphasis to certain words in much the same way that italics are used in English
writing certain onomatopoetic words
telegrams

this explains the "baka" thingy since girls are always shoting the word at boys :-)

VeX
2004-09-23, 09:53
I've got a question concerning writing Japanese characters.... is there an easier way for the left-handed people to write these characters that were meant to be written with the right hand?

Haeleth
2004-09-23, 10:32
The answer, from what I can see on Google, seems to be that most left-handed Japanese learn to write with their right hand, even if they use their left hand for everything else. So... probably the answer to your question is "no". Of course, good handwriting isn't that important in Japan nowadays, what with computers everywhere.

Historically Japan hasn't been very tolerant of left-handedness, and still only 2% of the population admit to being left-handed, although it's thought that probably 10% really are.

VeX
2004-09-24, 04:08
Thanks.... I guess I just have to learn it the hard way. I'm currently taking formal lessons and I find my handwriting.... apalling.

Weave
2004-09-24, 15:05
just like cursive, it takes a while to get it looking good.
Not like anybody actually writes in cursive anymore...

Soulfang
2004-09-24, 16:00
just like cursive, it takes a while to get it looking good.
Not like anybody actually writes in cursive anymore...

I use a combination of cursive and regular handwriting. Cursive takes too much effort to think of how to shape the characters since I only use it when it's required, and I don't like to lift my pencil off the paper as much as possible, so...

Weave
2004-09-25, 04:42
I switched to normal handwriting because my cursive looked less and less like human handwriting. It's only gotten worse as time's passed.
Luckly, I type fast or I'd have to resort to strange hand motions to get ideas across.

Stranger
2004-12-15, 06:34
any one know of site that can give simple short "harigana" stories?!, I want to do some simple reading practice (note: even if the site contain stuff for a 5 years old, I don't mind, the easier the stuff to read the better).

K
2004-12-15, 14:46
Historically Japan hasn't been very tolerant of left-handedness, and still only 2% of the population admit to being left-handed, although it's thought that probably 10% really are.
This makes a cheesy drama pop up in my head.

Guy: Um, I actually have this secret I've been meaning to tell you...
Girl: What is it?
Guy: I'm actually
*ominous music*
Guy: LEFT-HANDED
Girl: OMG!! How could you do this to me x_x

Yeah, it's weird >_<

Nandemonai
2004-12-15, 16:38
any one know of site that can give simple short "harigana" stories?!, I want to do some simple reading practice (note: even if the site contain stuff for a 5 years old, I don't mind, the easier the stuff to read the better).

This may not be the ... sanest recommendation, considering the level of the punning you'd find ... but the Akazukin Cha Cha manga would probably be both entertaining and simple.

Korgath
2004-12-15, 23:58
SNES roms and older usually have many games with little to no kanji, which can be a good start for a beginner towards Japanese reading proficiency. If you are serious about learning Japanese, however, I recommend learning some kanji as soon as possible.

Haeleth
2004-12-16, 01:11
For SNES read NES. Many SNES games are kanji-heavy, and the blocky fonts they use can be pretty hard to read.

Best bet is actually any manga aimed at young readers; that normally has full furigana, so the kanji isn't a problem.

zalas
2004-12-16, 19:50
To add to Haeleth's suggestion, there are certain manga magazines known to be aimed at a lower age group. For example, if you get something from Jump Comics (published in Shounen Jump), you'll most likely get furigana. For shoujo, I'd recommend Ribon or Nakayoshi and probably Hana to Yume (if I remember correctly). Stay away from Afternoon (which AMG was serialized in) and Dengeki Comics. (Dengeki Daioh contained a lot of recent manga->anim conversions, with an emphasis on cute girls).

Stranger
2004-12-16, 22:37
heheee, today is the first time that I see this on a site しばらく待ってね (while loading Flash), and I actuly read and understod it :-)

みな ありがと。 おれ わ ほんと とても がんばる にほんご を よむ けど、 いま へて です よ。 でも いつか じょうぞ です よ けど :-) (most likely all wrong, but I tryed my best to type it)

can you please help me with a link to the offical site of those comics, or a link to a shop. When I google I get mostly English review or English translations of them. But not the raw version (which is what am trying to get)

AstCd2
2004-12-17, 01:32
Sure thing.

Jump: http://jump.shueisha.co.jp/
Ribon: http://ribon.shueisha.co.jp/
Nakayoshi: http://www.nakayosi-net.com/
Hana to Yume: http://www.hakusensha.co.jp/cgi-bin/mag/magazine.cgi?mode=magazine&magmode=mag01&day=now

Stranger
2004-12-17, 01:51
thanks for links

Ashiteru ze babe is a managa?!!!!!.... am so there.... I've decided on which comic to try to go for, thanks man.

zalas
2004-12-17, 10:58
Read Shoujo manga. You know you want to.... mwahahahha

Stranger
2004-12-17, 22:06
sorry I don't know the different type of managas out there, so what is a "Shoujo" managa?! while am at it, can some type the names and what they stand for?!

is Ashiteru ze Babe a Shoujo Manage??!!!! Because that is the one I want to go for (and Ah My Goddess :-) )

Guest
2004-12-18, 04:42
Does X count as shoujo manga?

AstCd2
2004-12-18, 04:59
[Off topic]
Strictly speaking, shoujo manga is any manga aimed at young girls.

In a more narrow (and commonly used) sense, the term is used to refer to the most common genres that have come to be identified with shoujo manga (romance, magic girls, and light comedy).

Much like how shounen (young boys) manga typically features impossibly perfect girls, one common feature in shoujo manga is beautiful boys ('bishounen'). Angst and romance (in a non-harem sense) are also pretty common across the board.

X could be considered a shoujo manga. AMG, on the other hand, is very much a shounen manga.
[/Off topic]

vhirvela
2005-01-20, 01:01
Hey, I know this topic is pretty old, but I just wanted to mention that I found this interesting little game that effectively helps you learn Katakana, Hiragana, and a (very) few Kanjis. This game has already helped me to learn 83 Katakanas and 43 Hiraganas. At my learning rate, I guess I will be moving on to Kanjis in a week or so.

Project LRNJ - http://lrnj.com/



I started trying to learn japanise just recently. I have to let some steam out about LRNJ It's a game I would love to love but it has been made so insanely hard that it's pure torture to play.

Mayby Im just stuck but it's not likely. Ofcourse nobody wants to buy my potatos and thats ofcource a pity :P I heard from the king that the princess would be in need of some saving. The main problem is this. I really don't know what to do. Only places of use I know are forest for fighting slimes and cave which is full of "test" slimes which I can't pass because I don't know enough japanise yet.

As soon as I hit the next level which is level 2 the slimes just keep coming and coming it's impossible to win a fight and because of that I have no money to save my game so I just have to fight more and then I just die and its restart. Even if I restart the game remember that I am at level two and slimes keep coming seeminly endlessly.
Also reconfiguring typing speed or learning speed seems to have nothing to do with anything. I have both at 1 and the game i still just as impossible.

How much exp do I need to get in to the next level?
Any suggestions what I might be dooing wrong?

Even though I hate this game mayby more than any other game I can remember ever playing willingly. I think I will continue with it because of japanise I can potentially learn. Still I would much rather pick up a grammar book at this moment. :P

anyways you seem to have progressed with the game any hints?

Slipgate
2005-01-20, 08:09
By the way, pardon me for doing a double take... but 83 Katakanas?

There's only 46 hiragana and 46 katakana... a few more if you consider the ones modified with diacritical marks as unique.

I might try such a game for fun though, and to see what you mean.

Slipgate

JudicatorOmega
2005-01-20, 17:31
vhirvela:

I think your supposed to fight around in the forest until you see your first "green slime" (kanji practice). Then you go into the cave to fight mostly "blue magic slime" (katakana test) and at the next floor there are "red magic slime" (hiragana test).

Well, the thing about seemingly unlimited enemies is that you can't miss killing any slime or else they will call for help. If you have very good memory you can get by with killing every slime as soon as they come out. I have great short-term memory, but if I stop playing for a week, then I forget everything (which I have already).

But the guy who made this game should really take it easier on the enemy swarming... even if you are on the last enemy, 2 or 3 misses may result in 8 enemies coming out.

Slipgate:

Eh? Umm well, thats what the status screen said when I was looking at it. Of course I deleted the game and re-installed it so I can't check anymore. Your probably right... 83 does sound like too much from what I've seen.

Stranger
2005-01-21, 22:25
あいうえお (a i u e o)
かきくけこ がぎぐげご (ka ki ku ke ko, ga gi gu ge go)
さしすせそ ざじずぜぞ (sa shi su se so, za ji zu ze zo)
たちつてと だぢづでど (ta chi tsu te to, da ji zu de do)
なにぬねの (na ni nu ne no)
はひふへほ ばびぶべぼ ぱぴぷぺぽ (ha hi fu he ho, ba bi bu be bo, pa pi pu pe po)
まめむめも (ma me mu me mo)
や ゆ よ (ya yu yo)
らりるれろ (ra ri ru re ro)
わ   を (wa wo(o) )
ん (n')
っ (s k t h g z d b p)
きゃきゅきょ (kya kyu kyo)
しゃしゅしょ (sha shu sho)
ちゃちゅちょ ( cha chu cho )
にゃにゅにゅ (nya nyu nyo)
ひゃひゅひょ びゃびゅびょ ぴゃぴゅぴょ (hya hyu hyo, bya byu byo, pya pyu pyo)
みゃみゅみょ (mya myu myo)

did I forget any?!!, if not then there are 71 (plus 2 dead ones)., as side note, I find drawing the hiragana, and the very few kinji I know (6 so far that I can draw, and few other that I can reconize) 20 times every couple of days, as a very good exersie for not forgetting :)

by the way, "っ" (the small version of tsu), if it comes before some charecters it make that kana longer. But what does it do when it is standing at the end of a santince by itself?!!

Nephillim
2005-01-21, 23:17
To make it easier, I present to you...... the 'periodic table' of Katakana and Hiragana, for your printing pleasure:

Click here (http://wallpapers.downloadanime.org/albums/userpics/17249/pg004.jpg)

zalas
2005-01-21, 23:56
by the way, "っ" (the small version of tsu), if it comes before some charecters it make that kana longer. But what does it do when it is standing at the end of a santince by itself?!!
I think it's like a trailing off sound. Like if I shout really loud! ああっっ

AstCd2
2005-01-22, 00:07
I was under the impression that it created a sharp glottal ending, not unlike when it's applied in the middle of a word. It seems to turn up frequently when there's a short and sharp ending (eg. 「最悪ですっ。失礼ですっ。風子は大人の女性です。岡崎さんのような永遠の小学生と一緒にしないでください。」), while ああぁぁぁ and ああ━━━━ seem to be more popular for trailing off.

satsu
2005-01-22, 05:26
X could be considered a shoujo manga.

Surely that's a bit like saying "Siberia can get a bit nippy in the winter." ;)

AstCd2
2005-01-22, 05:47
X could be considered a shoujo manga.

Surely that's a bit like saying "Siberia can get a bit nippy in the winter." ;)


Perhaps, but with the fighting and all, it would seem to hold more appeal for male readers than certain other angst-filled shoujo romance series that I've come across =P.

Slipgate
2005-01-22, 06:01
Well besides the fact that I don't consider the diacritical marks to be unique kana really and consider there to be 46... I think the game may have said 83 katakana not out of "how many katakana there are" but as a log of how many times you've successfully done one. Not sure yet, have to come back home and check, but that's my leaning.

Slipgate

2005-01-22, 08:23
I played the game a little a long time ago. I think the hiragana it included were:

あいうえお がぎぐげご
かきくけこ ざじずぜぞ
さしすせそ だぢづでど
たちつてと ばびぶべぼ
なにぬねの ぱぴぷぺぽ
はひふへほ 
まみむめも しゃ しゅ しょ
や ゆ よ ちゃ ちゅ ちょ
らりるれろ じゃ じゅ じょ
わゐ ゑを


It does include wi and we, that are not used in modern japanese. I'm pretty sure all of the ones above are included in the game, but that is only 82.

Haeleth
2005-01-22, 08:38
Maybe it was counting ヴ as well? That would give you your 83rd katakana.

Not but what counting しゃ as one grapheme is slightly dubious - once you start down that path you have to start counting ふぁ and so forth as well, and then you have to start wondering about あ゛ and the like...

Slipgate
2005-01-22, 10:09
Well, the small marks like a small っ (tsu) I don't think it's wise to try and come up with every letter combination that uses them, or other such "modifying of base characters" but rather to learn how that modifying goes and be able to be a bit loose and fancyfree so that you know what's what as you read stuff even if it's not a hardwritten use of it.... the very way some of it first came to be. Especially since most of this stuff is for the sake of loanwords... understanding how things modify instead of memorizing modifications is better (such as learning that the diacritical " hardens the sound, therefore t's become d's and k's become g's... but gives you enough understanding that you're not lost when you see ヴ and haven't memorized it but have memorized that the sound is supposed to harden and can either figure out, or once told, can see why "v" might fit.

Perhaps it can be misleading and feel like you need to memorize more than you anticipated later, but I still feel memorizing it as a set of 46 characters with special cases and modifications is the best way to go... I learned very naturally and was able to figure out anything that wasn't kanji that way.

IMHO, of course.

Slipgate

emperor
2005-01-30, 14:14
Maybe it was counting ヴ as well? That would give you your 83rd katakana.
Indeed, here the list, from the game data itself if anybody cares.
ノnoソsoンnツtsuシshiフfuラraワwaウuヲwoスsuクkuタtaケkeヌnuメmeキkiヤyaナnaチchiサsaオoネneホhoロroコkoヨyoヒhiセseモmoムmuマmaアaヱweイiレreルruリriテteニniミmiハhaヘheカkaトtoエeユyuヰwiバbaビbiブbuベbeボboピpiパpaプpuペpeポpoガgaギgiグguゲgeゴgoザzaズzuゼzeゾzoダdaデdeドdoジjiジャjaヂdziヅdzuヴvuキャkyaキュkyuキェkyeキョkyoアッテatteアッチatchiアッサassaアッマamma
My thoughts on the game if anybody cares: The game was quiet entertaining but of course of little use to people who know the jouyou lv 1-6 (though one who knows 1-6 might get surprised by a few Secondary School Kanji aka lv 8 ones) already. It's only challenging to know exactly which meaning the game wants to read...some were even some I had never read of. For example it has 興 as prosper just like 平 as level, though of course those words can be built with them...Anyways I dunno if it's any use except for fun though, without learning the readings one cannot do anything at all. I mean...how are you going to look anything up? I can only imagine this to be extremely chaotic.
Though I do not want to discourage anybody here.

Slipgate
2005-01-30, 14:32
Well considering how much hiragana and katakana it does, I think it's more suited to them. It does some kanji but it doesn't try to do all kanji, and obviously by the time someone knows all the kana they'd be playing it more for amusement and turning elsewhere to keep going.

Also, multi-kana situations like アッマ should not (IMHO) be considered unique kana :).

Slipgate

emperor
2005-01-30, 14:34
I agree. Not my fault, I simply took it from the game data. Well it doesn't count them either it seems but they exist in it.

Slipgate
2005-01-30, 14:38
Oh I wasn't attributing it to you. You were just reporting what the game stated. Though it seems that if it's going to say 83 Katakana then that means it's counting how many you've done of the many it can test you on, and that would be its testing list.

Edit: Oh, it doesn't? Hm. へん ね...

Slipgate

Haeleth
2005-01-30, 14:51
multi-kana situations like アッマ should not (IMHO) be considered unique kana :).
I don't know, I'd say a string that only gets 24 hits on Google counts as pretty unique. ;)

(For those who don't know: the standard way of lengthening ma-gyou kana is with n': e.g. アンマ.)

Slipgate
2005-01-30, 15:09
ma-gyou?

emperor
2005-01-30, 15:20
They are ma me mi mo mu....as he already explained it's when lengthening an m you use n' before it and it will be spoken as a long m, therefore っま(and other m ones) are not used. The most famous example might be あんまり (spoken ammari) . Watch out, writing a っま(and the others) is simply wrong and ime will see it as a different word, since unlike ha gyou (similar story with ha hi fu he ho, ba, bi, bu, be bo, pa, pi, pu, pe and po...the n' before it is spoken as an m, ex: shimbun, komban) the ma gyou errors are not auto corrected.

Haeleth
2005-01-30, 15:28
ma-gyou?
マ行 = kana beginning with 'm'.

Kylon
2005-02-06, 11:05
Hello, I've been checking out this website for awhile now but this particular topic has caused me to register to post. 8)

I was wondering if anyone knew of a resource that shows which Chinese characters the hirigana characters descended from? (Someone once mentioned to me that their non-digital, printed dictionary had a chart... but he wasn't nice enough to scan it for me. 8) )


I mostly type Chinese and Japanese nowadays so my handwriting is getting really, really bad. I thought at least I could use this information to improve my hirigana.

***

As for trying to learn Japanese, I found that its mostly a mixture of curiousity and exposure, as it is for almost any language.

My old cognitive psychology professor once said that recent thinking (although this was 1995) is that we don't learn new languages because we can simply resort to the old one. But if you're in an immersive environment you can learn quite fast. His example was a friend of his who moved to Quebec and within 9 months her French became indistinguishable from native speakers. Basically it was a situation of speak French, or don't speak at all just like when we were born.

So just as others have already advised, I found that I had to simply expose myself to Japanese... and then get curious about words that came my way (i.e. look them up, research them, remember them) and don't just read the English subtitles and let the Japanese pass.

Since most of our brains learn by association, associating words with where you've learned them from also helps. For example, ichigo jam has now been permanently associated with Nayuki. (Same with the word 'yuki' which is part of Nayuki's name.)

****

As for kanji, don't be discouraged. I've heard (and just now checked out wikipedia) that it takes about 3000-4000 for full Chinese literacy but only "1945 daily use kanji as designated by the Ministry of Education" for Japanese. (Wikipedia source - article 'Chinese characters')

When you figure that there are several hundred very, very simple characters (1, 2, 3... 9, man, big, small, up, down, sun, moon, etc, etc.) 2000 is probably reduced by 25% already. Then (from my own experiences learning Chinese as a little kid) a large percentage of these simple words form parts of other kanji in a way that *can* (though not always) make sense. 8)


****

Oops.. sorry for the long post... 8)

Haeleth
2005-02-06, 12:46
I was wondering if anyone knew of a resource that shows which Chinese characters the hirigana characters descended from? (Someone once mentioned to me that their non-digital, printed dictionary had a chart... but he wasn't nice enough to scan it for me. 8) )
My dead-tree dictionary has a chart too:
<blockquote><tt>ん无 わ和 ら良 や也 ま末 は波 な奈 た太 さ左 か加 あ安
   ゐ為 り利    み美 ひ比 に仁 ち知 し之 き機 い以
      る留 ゆ由 む武 ふ不 ぬ奴 つ川 す寸 く久 う宇
   ゑ恵 れ礼    め女 へ部 ね祢 て天 せ世 け計 え衣
   を遠 ろ呂 よ与 も毛 ほ保 の乃 と止 そ曽 こ己 お於</tt></blockquote>

When you figure that there are several hundred very, very simple characters (1, 2, 3... 9, man, big, small, up, down, sun, moon, etc, etc.) 2000 is probably reduced by 25% already. Then (from my own experiences learning Chinese as a little kid) a large percentage of these simple words form parts of other kanji in a way that *can* (though not always) make sense. 8)
To some extent this is true. Probably for the first 10%. Then you get into the realm of trying to remember which of 鞄 and 靴 is "bag" and which is "shoes", and things get a bit harder. ;)

Not to mention that there are a LOT of common characters that aren't included in the 1,945 joyo kanji. 鬱 (the うつ in 憂うつ and うつ病) is one example - 450,000 hits on Japanese websites, but it's not on the official list. 儚 (as in はかない) is another character I learned very early, but would never have learned at all if I'd been following the joyo list exclusively...

Which is not to say that kanji are hopeless. Just that furigana is priceless. Thank God they've started using it in games at last... -_-;;

2005-02-06, 16:35
My dead-tree dictionary has a chart too:


Yes! Thankyou! Now the way hirigana is written makes sense. 8) I only have some minor ability to do brush writing, grass-style but from what I've seen on the chart the hirigana generally follows the rules as somewhere I've read told me.

For example, the character for 'small' is usually written grass-style with a straight-down stroke and then a loop, as can bee seen at the bottom of NA or NE.

Hmm... now that I take a closer look, some of the other stuff is just... too simplified... 8) Oh well.. close enough.


To some extent this is true. Probably for the first 10%. Then you get into the realm of trying to remember which of 鞄 and 靴 is "bag" and which is "shoes", and things get a bit harder. ;)


Heh.. 鞄 has to be 'bag' since the 包
'bao' radical (meaning 'to wrap') is where the 'bao' sound of that word comes from. Ok, but I'm cheating with Chinese. 8)

I realized after I posted that that another large percentage I've learned is through radical-phonetics, that is one part of the Chinese character gives it the sound... Unfortunately I don't see how this applies to Japanese unless people purposely go around memorizing the On-readings...

Just in case anyone's curious, here's the Cantonese and then the On-readings:
包 - bao - HOU
鞄 - bao - HAKU, HOU, BYOU
砲 - pao - HOU
炮 - pao - HOU
抱 - po - HOU
狗 - gau <this one sorta breaks it> - KU, KOU

So for those who've taken Mandarin (similar enough to Cantonese to serve for Japanese) they may be able to draw on that to help... Like taking Latin to learn Spanish, French and Italian? I don't know. 8) I hope I haven't discouraged anyone. 8)

roxfan
2005-02-07, 10:37
Here's a picture with a middle step shown:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana#History

emperor
2005-02-09, 04:40
Not to mention that there are a LOT of common characters that aren't included in the 1,945 joyo kanji. 鬱 (the うつ in 憂うつ and うつ病) is one example - 450,000 hits on Japanese websites, but it's not on the official list. 儚 (as in はかない) is another character I learned very early, but would never have learned at all if I'd been following the joyo list exclusively...

Now that you mention it...it seems quiet.. strange that jouyou list.
I looked at the jouyou list and out of those that I know (meaning mostly lv1-6 and only few secondry school kanji[aka jouyou lv 8]) searched those that I've never actually read to compare it with your example. I searched the kanji alone by themselves. 鬱 returned 1,1m results. 綿 for example only returned 1,06m. Worst I found was 蚕, which does despite being on a lv 6, only return 0,43m. I can only conclude from what was posted on the first page till here that the kanji you chose were selected suiting to the text you tried to translate. Is that something you recommand? Translating texts and learning the kanji necessary for it?

Now something for the other learners in here: I find kanjilab, which you can get along with other things at www.kanjilab.com very useful . It is great for revising kanji and also helps learning new ones, though now that I've started learning with it, learning the lv 8 ones I well get doubts about the standard study list: the jouyou list (see above). It even forces you to revise by a certain method. It does not have all the readings though but it should be the most important as far as i can tell. For example it didn't have kun readings for 銀 or the on reading for 皿 but I think they were chosen good as...if you really need those readings it would be better to look them up.

Stranger
2005-07-15, 06:57
qustion: does it signify anything when the speaker use "ra" instead of "tachi" for the group sufix??!!!!!. (ex. orera while the next charecter uses oretachi).

also, when translating, how is everyone translating politeins??!, or is politeins simply ignored?!, example girls who will pri-sufix everything with 'O' or the usage of "donata" instead of "dare". (ex. in the subbing of OMG, Belldandy and the subing of ToHeart, Akari, both charecters seem to be speaking normaly in the subbing, but in Japanese both are extra polite).

Haeleth
2005-07-15, 07:51
My gut feeling would be that "-ra" is slightly less formal than "-tachi" (which in turn is less formal than "-gata"). But frankly, if the pronoun it's being attached to is "ore", you're well out of polite territory already...

As for translating grammatical politeness markers - it's perfectly possible. Generally speaking, in English, as in Japanese, the longer it takes to say something, and the less certain it sounds, the politer it is. It would surprise me if the subs you refer to really ignore the distinction (unless you're talking about fansubs, in which case the translator might possibly have been that incompetent), but they may mark it more subtly than you were expecting.

Stranger
2005-07-15, 08:45
ore is considered informal??!!!!... that news to me, I always though it was part of the normal way of speaking and not the plain way of speaking, thanks for the info.

as for the subing, it was fansubs, and mostlikly it was because am ignorent of how the sentince should look like and not because of the subbers :)

P.S. somthing in the back of my head tells me that I read that respones before.... humm... na, brain won't work

gp32
2005-07-15, 09:06
俺 isn't just informal -- it's downright rude in many circumstances.

emperor
2005-07-16, 11:32
Well you can take a look here http://www.watanabegumi.co.jp/jpculture/howmanyi/howmanyi.html .
This should explain a lot of 'I's. Just on a sidenote, you will never read atasi with the kanji stated there. It also doesn't inform the reader that 我輩 is actually also used for 'we' [and can also be read わがともがら] but of course it cannot be complete, now can it... On another sidenote, when I played an japanese online game for a while I hardly saw anybody using 俺. Male users(or rather characters) mainly used 僕 but also 私 (or simply わたし), but 'I' isn't just very frequently to begin with...or so it seemed. And the 僕 is only used by children rumor spread by some[or at least one] fansub crews is merely a rumor.

zalas
2005-07-16, 12:08
Funny, the MMO I play has almost no 'boku' but mostly 'ore' and 'watashi'. There was even this one time, when this girl character accidentally said 'ore' and everyone was like "Aha! We found out! You're a guy!"

emperor
2005-07-16, 12:20
Well I can only guess the tendency to rather use 俺 as adult seems to be there. Maybe the age group is different...or something else. Just to point it out, I know very well that zalas is to be trusted, but I didn't make anything up either if anybody believes gets that idea. If anybody thinks I'm telling lies and I never played that game, then that person can contact me and meet me up in that game [with a trial acc], since I stopped playing and the auto renewal but I still have a few days left it seems. Just to stress, I might be always wrong but I'm not making things up.
Well creating a trial account for an online game and getting to talk to some natives isn't bad either for people learning japanese. Of course you can always go to yahoo chat but from my experiences [oh yes probably everybody else experienced this differently] they have nothing to talk about, even if the chatroom has a topic, so it's basically..talking eternally about nothing at all, which is pretty much awesome in it's own way.

2005-07-16, 15:11
I was strolling around the net looking for ways to understand Jap grammar when I accidentally stumbled and got stuck here www.thejapanesepage.com. Then suddenly an idea struck my head... memory is the key to be good at this language ~_~... I wish I can find a site that explains Japanese compound sentences... Oh well, no pain no gain....

kouryuu
2005-07-16, 22:02
This is a site (http://www.learn-japanese.info/) I stumbled onto once. I thought it was pretty good for someone just starting to learn.