PDA

View Full Version : Clannad info?


K
2004-04-20, 12:41
If the Kanon translation is being delayed by Clannad, then that means Haeleth has Clannad. And if he's got Clannad, well... that means he's got Clannad info.

So, not trying to be much of a bother, but... what do you think of it, generally? What's the main character like? And the girls too, of course. Why does it take up a DVD? Are there voices?

And if you can take one, a screenshot ^_^

...If it wastes too much time, though, forget it.

Asmadi
2004-04-20, 14:55
I thought it wasn't out yet...not for at least another 6 days...I could be wrong.

::K::
2004-04-20, 21:04
Woops. 8 days. You were right though, it's not out yet.

Which means there's still hope for a patch release before Clannad comes out... is there?

Stranger
2004-04-20, 22:01
If the Kanon translation is being delayed by Clannad
I am not Haeleth so I can not answer for him. But something tells that this misunderstanding is because of one of my posts... sorry about it.

Haeleth said he will make a poll for which girl to translate first AFTER he released the 50% patch. When I made a joke about poll not coming untill he finnished the game for all girls (and get over each one), I was talking about the poll not the 50% patch. Sorry about that.

Any way, while we are talking about Clannad, what is this pre-Clannad CD that is posted under the anime section of mircx??? is it a demo??? like the one made for "Wind -a breath of heart-"????. I am getting it now, so if it is a demo we will get a the answers for Clannad worries soon enough (I am on a slow connection).

P.S. Sorry, can't post a link until I know for sure that it is not some copyrighted stuff. So if someone already know about then tell me if it is alright to post the link or not

Asmadi
2004-04-20, 23:39
Yeah it was sent out to those who pre-ordered the game, so i guess it could be considered copyrighted...

It's basically a preview disc filled with a high resolution OP, Wallpapers, 2 mp3 versions of the OP and a compilation of BGMs in the game. Key sure knows how to keep their fans happy...

Haeleth
2004-04-21, 01:59
I'm still hoping to get the patch out before Clannad, yes. Also, bear in mind that it'll probably take a week for my copy to travel from Japan to England, so the 28th isn't the cut-off date. ;)

As for "pre-Clannad", it's actually a commercial fanbook (which includes the CD that's being, um, "distributed unofficially") - see here (http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/4797327235/ref=sr_aps_b_/249-6216578-7117128) for one place that'll sell it to you. CGs, character notes, staff interviews, that sort of thing. Rather thin for ¥980, though.

Oh, and I can answer one of K's questions despite not having the game yet: it doesn't have voices, they announced that a while back. I expect there'll be a voice patch once the PS2 version comes out though. ;)

Stranger
2004-04-21, 06:20
Oh, and I can answer one of K's questions despite not having the game yet: it doesn't have voices, they announced that a while back. I expect there'll be a voice patch once the PS2 version comes out though. ;)
no voice... even though it is on DVD, and the graphics is only 640x480.... oi oi... what is going on here??? is Key becoming the Micorsoft of Japan or what?? Also the last time I checked (over a year ago) people are still trying to figure out how to read the PS2 DVD on the PC. So the voice patch (if coming from the PS2) won't be easy to get (unless my info is out of date).

It seems that Key is enjoying the double sales of all of its games... oh well... I am not getting Clannad untill I finnish Kanon, then Air, and finnaly Wind (the demo was good :-) ). So the whole thing won't bother me for sometime yet :-)

P.S. Thanks for the pre-Clannad info

Haeleth
2004-04-21, 07:13
no voice... even though it is on DVD, and the graphics is only 640x480.... oi oi... what is going on here???
Good question. ;)

Still, if they've managed to fill 2.5 gigabytes without voice, I dread to think how much disk space the game would require with voice. Maybe they reckon it's bad enough expecting their customers to buy DVD drives, without making them all buy new hard disks as well?

Also the last time I checked (over a year ago) people are still trying to figure out how to read the PS2 DVD on the PC. So the voice patch (if coming from the PS2) won't be easy to get (unless my info is out of date).
I'm pretty sure you're out of date. A quick browse of the ngemu.com forums reveals a number of people talking about things like ripping video sequences from PS2 games, and if they can rip movies they can rip voice files.

Weave
2004-04-21, 07:16
the man makes a good arguement.

The only thing I can think of that could create enough bloat as to warrent using a DVD is movies. Maybe they use voice, while the rest is just test based?

I have SO many games backlogged that there is no way I can ever catch up. I'm talking about PS1 games that I still haven't even gotten around to. Sometimes you just have to cut your loses man.

K
2004-04-21, 14:18
Movies, that sounds nice.

Well, there's still hope for the Kanon patch, and that's good. Why not put up the poll before you play Clannad, and then when you're done with Clannad the results will be ready?

Haeleth
2004-04-21, 14:49
I'll put up the poll as soon as I get round to finding and setting up a decent poll script. Suggestions are welcome if anyone has any experience in such matters. ^^

(I was going to use phpbb's poll function, but it seems only to let logged-in users vote...)

K
2004-04-21, 15:42
Bravenet's is actually pretty decent... there's a lot of other scripts there, too. They're not the best, I'm sure, but it's convenient.

If you don't want to use that, poke around hotscripts.com and see if you find something you like.

zalas
2004-04-22, 08:08
Is there a problem with only letting the registered users vote? Or did you want to get more people involved than just the forum goers?

Haeleth
2004-04-22, 11:39
I doubt it would be a major problem - I shouldn't think that many people care anyway - it just seems a bit silly to have an extra restriction like that when the vast majority of internet polls are free-for-alls. Particularly when I'm not requiring people to register before they can post.

Plus I want to be able to fake the results without having to mess around in PHPMyAdmin... hang on, I shouldn't have said that, should I? :p

K
2004-04-22, 12:41
Plus I want to be able to fake the results without having to mess around in PHPMyAdmin... hang on, I shouldn't have said that, should I? :p

Most poll scripts don't give you any easier way to edit the poll results... PHPMyAdmin is easy enough to use anyway ^_^

Bravenet's poll lets you edit it in the poll manager though >_>

But overall, the poll should just be whether to proceed with all 5 girls simultaneously as we are now, or to work on one at a time, in the order of your (Haeleth's) preference.

Of course, it'd probably be good to state what that order is first so people don't get a nasty surprise ^_^;

zalas
2004-04-23, 09:02
Of course, it'd probably be good to state what that order is first so people don't get a nasty surprise ^_^;
Awww.... so now Haeleth can't make up a fake Kitagawa scenario and work on that first ^^;

Stranger
2004-04-23, 22:27
Still, if they've managed to fill 2.5 gigabytes without voice, I dread to think how much disk space the game would require with voice. Maybe they reckon it's bad enough expecting their customers to buy DVD drives, without making them all buy new hard disks as well?
I've been thinking about this, and I belive that it must be that the bloody DVD will be full of many many charecter CGs, and backgrounds for the game. Also there is a chance that it will have different version of the CG, (640x480, 800x600, 1024x800 (I will choose the last one :-) ) ).

And of cource the animemation (hopefully).

I'm pretty sure you're out of date. A quick browse of the ngemu.com forums reveals a number of people talking about things like ripping video sequences from PS2 games, and if they can rip movies they can rip voice files.
Now this bring us the issue of the new version of the SEEN file... damn... well I try to see what I can figure out of the demo I got before. Any way, anybody know of a demo that use the same engine as Clannad and have prober text in it (the demo I got was mostly images passing on the screen, there was not much text in it like the Wind demo).

I'm pretty sure you're out of date
.....!!!!!...... I am out of date....... I am out of date..... I am out of date..... I AM OUT OF DATE???!!!!! oi... I am still in my 20's..... well I guess it is the fault of the english laungague and not your fault.... or is it?!

Haeleth
2004-04-24, 11:17
Now this bring us the issue of the new version of the SEEN file... damn... well I try to see what I can figure out of the demo I got before. Any way, anybody know of a demo that use the same engine as Clannad and have prober text in it?
All the RealLive demos I've seen have been OP demos, i.e. no text to speak of.

But the format really isn't all that difficult to figure out. Unlike AVG32, it's possible to tell where each opcode begins without knowing what arguments they take, so it's not necessary to know what everything does to do something simple like insert additional calls to the voice function (opcode 0x17 subcode 0x000) before each spoken line and update all the pointers. So a voice patch should be trivial, and the only thing that's going to make a translation patch hard will be the sheer amount of text.

K
2004-04-25, 10:16
By the way, Haeleth, would it be a bother to translate the "characters" portion of the Clannad website? I'm kinda curious as to what everyone is like >_>

Haeleth
2004-04-25, 14:08
Yeah, su-- gah, there's so many of them...!

Ah well, it'll make a change from hacking away at saved game conversions.
(translates the page)
Here you go (http://haeleth.net/temp/clannad_chars.html). Had to fudge a couple of them (*cough*Yuusuke*cough*) but I think it's mostly accurate. ^^;

If you're wondering why the picture for Nagisa is different, that's because for some reason they've used a CGI script to stop people linking to that one picture. Weird.

Asmadi
2004-04-26, 11:12
Here (http://www.freetype.net/features/games/clannad/)

K
2004-04-26, 12:40
Yeah, su-- gah, there's so many of them...!

Ah well, it'll make a change from hacking away at saved game conversions.
(translates the page)
Here you go (http://haeleth.net/temp/clannad_chars.html). Had to fudge a couple of them (*cough*Yuusuke*cough*) but I think it's mostly accurate. ^^;

If you're wondering why the picture for Nagisa is different, that's because for some reason they've used a CGI script to stop people linking to that one picture. Weird.

Thanks so much Haeleth ^_^

Haeleth
2004-04-26, 14:58
Here (http://www.freetype.net/features/games/clannad/)
Hmm, looks like they're drawing on some unknown source, they've got a lot of extra details in there.

Asmadi
2004-04-27, 09:08
Here (http://www.freetype.net/features/games/clannad/)
Hmm, looks like they're drawing on some unknown source, they've got a lot of extra details in there.

More is better in this case. :p

AnimeOtakuSama
2004-05-06, 10:50
Its always good to know more....although the more u know, the more ur gonna wanna play it.....too bad there arent any translation groups out there for clannad...

come to think of it, even if there were a translation group, just think about the time it will take to finish the entire DVD....3 years at least?

Haeleth
2004-05-06, 12:54
My copy came at last!

*does happy dance*

*curses HM Customs for $25 import duty*

*whips out RealLive disassembler and pokes at game's internals*

http://haeleth.net/temp/clannad.jpg

BTW, if there are any fansubbing groups out there who feel like taking on an unfeasibly huge project and happen for some reason to be browsing this thread: if you have the translators, I have the technology...

K
2004-05-06, 14:38
ENGLISH!! *drool*

For translators, you might want to ask NNL, since they did sub Megumeru... I'm sure they have some interest in the game.

Weave
2004-05-06, 15:12
dude, I know it's tempting.
REALLY TEMPTING!
but don't quit on Kanon.

FIGHT THE URGE!


*I think I've been in Japan too long. Engrish is creeping into my lexicon.


--As for NNL I thik they only do small stuff. Clannad ain't small by any scale, unless you count the box....it's not that big.

AnimeOtakuSama
2004-05-06, 16:11
I'm sure everybody would love to have NNL translate Clannad, but I think that NNL is kinda busy with their games as well, so far they have Fate/Stay Night & Giniro ~ Silver; dont forget about their anime releases as well...They will have quite a while before they will be able to even start on Clannad.

Don't Forget that Fate/Stay Night is quite huge of a game, around 2 gigs I believe...Unless they happen to have a surplus of translators laying around, which I doubt...

Maybe someone could start up a 'Clannad Translation Project' ? ^_^

AnimeOtakuSama
2004-05-06, 16:15
--As for NNL I thik they only do small stuff. Clannad ain't small by any scale, unless you count the box....it's not that big.

Comparing Clannad with Fate/Stay Night, both are around half a DVD in size. Fate/Stay Night is by no means small, its pretty big....^_^

Haeleth
2004-05-06, 16:28
Heh... don't worry, I'm not planning to translate Clannad myself. Not till I finish Kanon at any rate. ;)

As for other people - well, unfortunately interested in the game != prepared to devote years of one's life to translating it. I've said elsewhere that anyone who really wants to play Clannad could probably learn fluent Japanese in the time it'll take for a fan translation to appear.

Ah well, at least I've proven it's possible. ^^

As for the game, it's basically exactly what you'd expect from Key - beautiful (if slightly blocky) CGs, beautiful music, your standard good-for-nothing hero and full cast of messed-up girls, all intertwined with post-apocalyptic dream sequences that I've only seen two of and therefore have no idea what they're on about but they're all swish and monochrome and sweeping strings.

Weave
2004-05-06, 18:18
NNL is doing Fate Stay NIght? WHOA

Well, crap, now I have to go buy that game now too.
All the pics I've seen of that game make me beleive it to be some type of action game though. What's it really like?

I've said elsewhere that anyone who really wants to play Clannad could probably learn fluent Japanese in the time it'll take for a fan translation to appear.
sad, but true. How much larger is Clannad's script to Kanon's? You, know, for that mystical day when we finish Kanon and want to tranx it next. <insert weak laugh here>

K
2004-05-06, 21:01
I've said elsewhere that anyone who really wants to play Clannad could probably learn fluent Japanese in the time it'll take for a fan translation to appear.
sad, but true.

Not really. I think I'll go learn Japanese >_>

Haeleth
2004-05-07, 01:48
NNL is doing Fate Stay Night?

To clear up the slight confusion, it's NewLifeAnime (http://www.newlifeanime.com/) who are doing Fate/stay night. So far as I know they're not connected with NNL.

Weave
2004-05-07, 04:18
ah OK that makes more sense.

AnimeOtakuSama
2004-05-07, 19:57
NNL is doing Fate Stay Night?

To clear up the slight confusion, it's NewLifeAnime (http://www.newlifeanime.com/) who are doing Fate/stay night. So far as I know they're not connected with NNL.

oh, im sorry, i mixed up the group names... :P

K
2004-05-08, 12:54
Might be worth a try to run the script through some machine translation... I know there's one out there that's better than Babelfish, but I don't remember which it was.

While the game isn't entirely playable like that, I'm sure many of us have an easier time translating Engrish to English, so more people will be capable of working on the script.

Haeleth
2004-05-08, 16:06
Might be worth a try to run the script through some machine translation... I know there's one out there that's better than Babelfish, but I don't remember which it was.

Babelfish is worse than useless for Japanese -> English, and all the English-language sites I know of use the exact same engine. The better one you're thinking of is probably Excite (http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/), which does sometimes produce results that could almost be described as English.

However, no machine translation copes with colloquialisms. Even simple contractions confuse things - given 「いいじゃない」 (either "it's not good" or "isn't that okay", depending on context), Babelfish comes up with "There is no calling", and Excite produces "There is no good じゃ". In other words, neither of them handles the sort of language that makes up most of the dialogue in these games.

So, frankly, a translation based on Babelfish's mangled nonsense would be worse than no translation, you'd get a more accurate result by looking at the pictures and making things up. A translation based on whatever software Excite is using would be better, and might actually capture some of the meaning of the original, but I still wouldn't trust it to be much better than even a total beginner looking everything up in a dictionary would come up with...

~K~
2004-05-08, 18:22
A total beginner looking things up in a dictionary would be slower.

"There is no good" can be turned into English, you just put a bit of thought into things. I didn't say it'd be effortless.

I'm not saying the entire game should simply be translated into Engrish. What I have in mind is an Engrish to English translation instead of Japanese to English, because more people are capable of the former, provided the Engrish is decent enough.

procyon
2004-05-09, 00:34
In case anyone is wondering, excite uses the Amikai translation engine. Like Haeleth said, its better than babblefish, but still not all the great. For translating simple non-colloqiual things (ordering instructions, etc.) for me, it ranks as 'good enough'.

Amikai's focus has historically been on japanese->english machine translation, so its not surprising that it works better than the systran engine in babblefish.

Haeleth
2004-05-09, 04:11
"There is no good" can be turned into English, you just put a bit of thought into things.
Sure, it can be turned into English. You'd probably come up with "It's no good". But "いいじゃない?" normally means "Isn't that okay?" &mdash; which is approximately the opposite meaning!

The problem gets worse as things get more colloquial. Consider this scene from the first evening, as you sit eating your dinner in Sunohara's room:
岡崎「悪い、お茶」
春原「出ねーよっ!」
岡崎「だから悪いって、言ってるじゃん」
春原「頭下げようが、出ねぇよっ」
春原「おまえ、ここが食堂かなんかと勘違いしてない?」
Okazaki -- "bad tea"
the Suhara "appearance - 4 -- "
Since it is Okazaki ", they are bad って and said じゃん."
The method of the Suhara "head lowering is 出ねぇ 4."
Suhara "-- I and here do not mistake with a dining-room or something -- ?"
Okazaki "Sorry. Got any tea?"
Sunohara "Not for you!"
Okazaki "Hey, I said sorry, didn't I?"
Sunohara "You can beg for all I care. You're not having any."
Sunohara "Where d'you think you are, a tea shop?!"
As Procyon says, machine translation can handle straightforward factual Japanese "well enough" for many people these days. But as you can see it simply dies when faced with anything colloquial.

I'm not saying the entire game should simply be translated into Engrish. What I have in mind is an Engrish to English translation instead of Japanese to English, because more people are capable of the former, provided the Engrish is decent enough.
I'm not saying that wouldn't work at all. It's just that in order to get decent enough Engrish, you have to have someone go through the script first and rewrite all the colloquial bits in standard Japanese, and then, when you're done de-Engrishing it, another Japanese speaker will have to go through it all again alongside the original and retranslate any bits the computer got wrong. I'm not sure it would be much less work than just having them translate it in the first place, except (I suppose) that the person who did the first step wouldn't need to speak English very well.

I apologise if I'm coming across rather harsh here &mdash; I don't want you to end up with the impression that I'm trying to rubbish your idea. Machine translation plus human editing isn't a bad idea at all; in fact, it's standard practice these days for many purposes. But it really only works well enough when the source text is written in a straightforward or formulaic way (like patents or business letters). I just don't think the technology is there yet to make it possible to use this approach on literature.

AnimeOtakuSama
2004-05-09, 15:18
Thats a interesting idea, but i think it will be some time before a working translation engine of that type will come out. So far there is the only one engine being used out there, isnt there? Its an interesting idea, but for that to happen they're gonna have to revamp the current engine and have some kinda team of consisting of japanese and english speakers which have good experience in both languages & literature....not to mention the issue of money...it will take quite a while before something like that comes out....

K
2004-05-09, 17:54
Ah... didn't realize from your example that it gets that bad. Guess it won't work then, until something better comes out, at least v_v;

AnimeOtakuSama
2004-05-09, 19:09
Ah... didn't realize from your example that it gets that bad. Guess it won't work then, until something better comes out, at least v_v;

No, no, I just put this in as a possibliity, since, most translation engines are in actuality, large databases or simply a huge dictionary...at the current level, in my opinion, I would consider it a rudimentry dictionary, since literature in general is so complex. I too would hope that a better language engine comes out also, since i do not read japanese either; but my thoughts about Haeleth's idea of a language engine is just a assumption from my what i have learned in my college & the self-taught technical knowledge from tinkering with computers and sort.

Please do not take my ramblings to heart, since they are only personal views & opinions...^_^

zalas
2004-05-09, 19:10
I'm sure everybody would love to have NNL translate Clannad, but I think that NNL is kinda busy with their games as well, so far they have Fate/Stay Night & Giniro ~ Silver; dont forget about their anime releases as well...They will have quite a while before they will be able to even start on Clannad.

As corrected earlier in this thread, it's NLA who's doing Giniro and FSN. I believe the reason that NNL doesn't do full games is that it's reaaaaally long. They simply wouldn't have the staff to handle it. Furthermore, the editor is really keen on editing, and they'll likely argue things back and forth (translator and editor). Thus, if they took the Clannad project, and if they don't get any more help, they'll take probably a few years or more, with them working at breakneck speed. I don't believe GipFace would want to do something like that again, since the Wind demo had him really stressed out.

RyokoTenchi
2004-05-10, 00:18
maybe we can ask Key to start producing their wonderful games in English as well? has anyone tried this except me? i sent them an e-mail but they prolly ignored it because it was in english ^^

Weave
2004-05-10, 02:00
Yeah, but then what would Haeleth do?
well, besides play Clannad all day...

Seriously though, most commercially released DS games are either all porn and/or old. If Kanon or Air where shipped out, they wouldn't sell well outside it's small fanbase.
I mean, if it doesn't have big boobed chicks with guns on the cover, Joe Gamer won't buy it. If Joe Gamer doesn't buy it, they lose money. If it doesn't make money, they won't go to the trouble of Tranx, packaging, and the like.

We ain't Joe Gamer though.

Stranger
2004-05-10, 02:57
I mean, if it doesn't have big boobed chicks with guns on the cover, Joe Gamer won't buy it.
lOl... thats a good one :-)
They can make the Cover that way, and then write on the back "This game contain the story of Nayuki as a kid, before she grew up and become the person you see on the cover"
Yeah, but then what would Haeleth do?
He could stop buying thier products (Clannad PS2) for our sake :-)

Weave
2004-05-10, 03:26
Nayuki with guns???

Better still, show what Akiko did as a merc before she had Nayuki.
Find out whats REALLY in that jam.
and many other mysteries!

oh, and lotsa random violence.



It could sell.

K
2004-05-10, 12:37
maybe we can ask Key to start producing their wonderful games in English as well? has anyone tried this except me? i sent them an e-mail but they prolly ignored it because it was in english ^^

Ask some company that typically translates these games. Like, I dunno... *names random company off top of head* Peach Princess, or something. They might be able to work something out.

Find out whats REALLY in that jam.

I don't think you want to.

AnimeOtakuSama
2004-05-10, 17:04
maybe we can ask Key to start producing their wonderful games in English as well? has anyone tried this except me? i sent them an e-mail but they prolly ignored it because it was in english ^^

Ask some company that typically translates these games. Like, I dunno... *names random company off top of head* Peach Princess, or something. They might be able to work something out.

I would probably like Peach princess to translate the games instead, I think their translations are more accurate...not to mention that they are the only other company that does bishoujo game translations, not like the hardcore stuff g-collections is known for spewing out...

~K~
2004-05-10, 17:31
If you think it's a good idea, let's write up a petition to Peach Princess asking them to translate Clannad ^_^

It might just work. The genre is new to America, and once some people realize how good it is, word could well spread, at least among the American otaku community.

So, think it's worth a try? If it was officially translated, I'd probably buy the English version too ^_^

vikitehwaffu
2004-05-10, 18:33
I dunno. Both companies have never translated a game of that large amount of text like Clannad.
It would be cool if they started though.

K
2004-05-11, 12:31
Some of the games they do probably come close... at least from what I've heard, Critical Point, maybe?

I don't see why they can't try something new, anyway.

RyokoTenchi
2004-05-11, 13:44
i sent them an e-mail. just waiting for a reply now. hope they will take on a project that is not entirely about sex heh.

AnimeOtakuSama
2004-05-12, 08:40
I dunno. Both companies have never translated a game of that large amount of text like Clannad.
It would be cool if they started though.

Of the games that Peach Princess has brought in; the ones with the most text would probably be Brave Soul, Critical point, and my favorite one of them all, Tokimeki Check-in...

Although they might meet up even with typical dating sim games, but i dunno about how it will fare against Clannad...After all, Clannad *IS* a DVD game...^_^

RyokoTenchi
2004-05-12, 10:55
ok guys got a reply from a nice guy at Peach Princess. here is the letter i sent and his reply:

would like to request something of you guys. a majority of my
friends and i would like to see some of the larger scale games
translated and brought to the states. namely games from Key, like
Clannad and Air. you're company was named in a forum we have and i
have opted to try and contact you to see if you might be thinking
about it or if you have already attempted it but were stopped for one
reason or another. i could even start a petition to show you how
many people would like to see these games translated if you need one.
i hope you return my e-mail with a positive answer but would still
like a response if you are unable to take up this project. thank you
for taking the time to read my e-mail.

Sincerely,
Ryan Rossknecht


Thanks for the email. I agree that some of these games would be
great, and we're certainly open to trying. Sometimes, however, games
become victims of their own success -- if a game like Air, which sold
around 60,000 units at $88 per unit, were to be compared with sales
that the English game market usually gets, well, it's pretty hard to
convince game companies that it's worth their time. This is why To
Heart will never be translated or licensed, it was too popular.
--


and that was all. really nice guy. he also mentioned i could e-mail him a petition to see how many people actually want these games translated if i wanted to. so what do you guys think?

K
2004-05-12, 12:28
he also mentioned i could e-mail him a petition to see how many people actually want these games translated if i wanted to. so what do you guys think?

PETITION TIME! What should it say?

RyokoTenchi
2004-05-12, 12:33
not too sure i think it should say something important. ^^ we need more signatures than the people who visit here so we need to attract some attention to it.

vikitehwaffu
2004-05-12, 14:29
I could try to pimp myself in the Shoujo-ai forums and the forum I semi-moderate...
But I doubt I can convince many people...If any.

K
2004-05-12, 14:32
We might as well try... but first we should decide on what it should say. I'm bad with formal text, so don't ask me unless we're totally, completely stuck ^_^;

zalas
2004-05-12, 14:45
You only really stand a chance of convincing them if all of a sudden, a lot of people started writing really polite actual letters in Japanese to the company. Even in that case, you probably would still have to give them a monetary reason too. :/

Haeleth
2004-05-12, 16:12
Sad but true... I don't know how companies like Peach Princess manage to turn a profit, frankly, with probably more copies of their games circulating on P2P than they've ever sold, and American market conditions making them look expensive at half the price of the Japanese versions. It's a niche, and a pretty precarious one too.

So it comes down to money, as Zalas says. What you'd probably have to do is find out what figure Key would have to expect in sales for them to bother selling anyone a license for the Western market, and then raise that as a lump sum on a subscription basis - offer a special edition with life-size Ayu doll to people who pledge more than $500 or something. If you can raise something in the right ballpark, then you might be able to arouse some interest.

A quicker way to raise the money: come up with a plausible business plan and convince some gullible VCs to back you to bring it over yourselves. Their loss not ours when the Key Translation Corporation of America folds due to rampant piracy...

Weave
2004-05-12, 17:22
Yeah, that's a problem. Clannad is abit bigger than most games, that helps some. But, theres a good way to fix it. You see, when I bought Air and Clannad I got extra stuff in the box. That's what you need to do. It worked for the Lunar remakes, just throw in a crap ton of omake stuff that you can't digitize as readily (ie Ayu pillows) and people will rather buy your game than D.L it.

That's why people don't buy CDs as much anymore. Why pay $20 for 13 songs, when you can buy a movie that has the same songs plus whatever extras for the same price, if not cheaper.

For the record, my Clannad purchase came with a poster and an arrangement CD. Some people got even cooler stuff, but luckly I picked up the surplus afterwords.

K
2004-05-12, 17:55
You only really stand a chance of convincing them if all of a sudden, a lot of people started writing really polite actual letters in Japanese to the company. Even in that case, you probably would still have to give them a monetary reason too. :/

Nah, we aren't talking about KEY.

Sad but true... I don't know how companies like Peach Princess manage to turn a profit, frankly, with probably more copies of their games circulating on P2P than they've ever sold, and American market conditions making them look expensive at half the price of the Japanese versions. It's a niche, and a pretty precarious one too.

But they're still in business, so obviously it works one way or another. Toss in the fact that Clannad is hard to download... dunno, it should do about as well as their other games, at least.

Peach Princess doesn't have as great expenses as KEY and other game companies do, since all they do is translate... I think that's how they survive.

offer a special edition with life-size Ayu doll to people who pledge more than $500 or something. If you can raise something in the right ballpark, then you might be able to arouse some interest.

Was that a bad pun or just unintentional?

It worked for the Lunar remakes, just throw in a crap ton of omake stuff that you can't digitize as readily (ie Ayu pillows) and people will rather buy your game than D.L it.

Might work, might not. But I'm sure more people would buy with the omake stuff than without.

...In any case, I still think we could write up a petition and maybe a few suggestions, and leave the rest to Peach Princess... after all, if they won't do it, this whole conversation is kinda moot.

AnimeOtakuSama
2004-05-12, 19:30
You only really stand a chance of convincing them if all of a sudden, a lot of people started writing really polite actual letters in Japanese to the company. Even in that case, you probably would still have to give them a monetary reason too. :/

Nah, we aren't talking about KEY.

Sad but true... I don't know how companies like Peach Princess manage to turn a profit, frankly, with probably more copies of their games circulating on P2P than they've ever sold, and American market conditions making them look expensive at half the price of the Japanese versions. It's a niche, and a pretty precarious one too.

But they're still in business, so obviously it works one way or another. Toss in the fact that Clannad is hard to download... dunno, it should do about as well as their other games, at least.

Peach Princess doesn't have as great expenses as KEY and other game companies do, since all they do is translate... I think that's how they survive.

offer a special edition with life-size Ayu doll to people who pledge more than $500 or something. If you can raise something in the right ballpark, then you might be able to arouse some interest.

Was that a bad pun or just unintentional?

It worked for the Lunar remakes, just throw in a crap ton of omake stuff that you can't digitize as readily (ie Ayu pillows) and people will rather buy your game than D.L it.

Might work, might not. But I'm sure more people would buy with the omake stuff than without.

...In any case, I still think we could write up a petition and maybe a few suggestions, and leave the rest to Peach Princess... after all, if they won't do it, this whole conversation is kinda moot.

Im all up for the petition, since i just recently made a nice little petition of complaint against my college professor....Irresponsible fellow, really sad...what a pity, but the whole class was against him...oh well....petition time!!!!!

Weave
2004-05-12, 21:17
I'm all for petitions, but they don't work.

I might just be alittle negative, but unless you have a couple dozen thousand names nowbody will listen. We'd be lucky to break a few hundred.

Let's face it. If you really want something done, you have to do it yourself. I trust fan-subs over most commercial anime, not just because it's cheaper :), but because they do it outta love.

Hell, if I had the money, I'd start my own company and get it done. The excuse about games being TOO popular....Final Fantasy is popular, so is Pokemon, etc, and you don't see them being tied up. The whole anime revolution is still going on, and it won't stop. It's just too marketable to quit now. DS games still have an ignorant and closeminded public to deal with, and that I think is it's biggest hurdle in the States.

sorry about that, I'm done ranting.

RyokoTenchi
2004-05-12, 22:26
how about

"Petition to Peach Princess Showing Fan Support of the Translation and PRoduction of DS Games, I.E. Air, Clannad... in conclusion with their normal software."

Does this sound good? anyone want to make any changes or anything and also if you have something comletely better write it up. i want to get this rolling so we can own translated Air and Clannad. ^^

Weave
2004-05-12, 23:23
I really hate to be the devil's advocate here, but Peach Princess does mostly mating sims; games where the main purpose is to screw around with as many girls as possible. Air and Kanon have alittle nudity and sex, but it's minor campared to what they usually have. Clannad has a double edged sword. It has no "adult" content so it can be sold practically anywhere, but it also doesn't have any pr0n which will hurt it's sales for people looking for that in their games.

Then again, there's really nothing to lose.
Sure! I'll sign, but I'm not gonna hold my breathe.
-Sorry about being so negative, but the American market for games with any type of adult material in it, is pitiful. Marketing it in Europe would be a much better idea, but then you have to worry about different languages.

vikitehwaffu
2004-05-13, 07:11
Didn't Starmen.net have a petition with over 30,000 signatures on a big piece of art?

It got sent right back. -_-

procyon
2004-05-13, 09:08
Like Haeleth said, it all comes down to economics. The Japanese licensors (Key, Leaf, NekoNeko, etc.) , won't give anyone the time of day unless there's enough money on the table to make it worth their while. The US companies don't have that kind of money. So a simple petition won't work.

If you really want Clannad released here commercially, you need to modify your petition. Make it so you can't get your name on the list unless you donate US$750 into a trust account. Once you convince your 500 closest friends to sign/fork out the $$$, hand the 1/3 million bucks to whoever licenses and translates the game. Problem solved.

So, now, who's going to sign up? :)

starfisher
2004-05-13, 11:24
*Slaps down $7.50

499 more to go ;)

K
2004-05-13, 11:56
$750, not $7.50, apparently >_>

If Peach Princess doesn't have the money to license Japanese games, explain how they translate anything at all.

2004-05-13, 13:52
i have to agree with K on this point. i am sure they make bank somehow. and besides, read the response. they are willing to try. it depends on the amount of people willing to buy here and if key will allow it.

RyokoTenchi
2004-05-13, 13:53
^ That was me ^

Weave
2004-05-13, 15:55
valid point.

If Peach Princess is scared/unwilling to get a game because it's popular and going to sell then I'd look for another company to do it, if there's any left.

But, the $$$ petition is hard to do. How many of us here have cash like that just laying around? It would be a miracle if it worked.

K
2004-05-13, 16:05
I think the $$$ petition was kind of a silly derivative from the idea that Peach Princess can't afford to license Clannad due to its success in Japan.

Let's look at the two sides of the coin (pun semi-intended):
Clannad is popular. Therefore, you'd think that KEY won't let it go without a hefty chunk of change, which Peach Princess can't afford. As a result, we have to give Peach Princess the cash to license Clannad.

BUT:
Think about it. Nobody else is even considering licensing Clannad. If Peach Princess makes an agreement with KEY that involves a certain division of the profits, I'm sure they won't need to pay as much money up front, and KEY won't mind having it over here. Both sides stand to gain: KEY will make money from American sales, and so will Peach Princess.

And maybe:
Is Clannad REALLY "too" popular? From what I've heard, it's not doing as well as its predecessors, probably due to lack of H-scenes. KEY might be more open to negotiations here than with its previous games. But if I've got my facts wrong on this one, forget this section.

I think at the very least we should make a petition, get as many people as we can to sign, then send it in, and wait to see what happens... it's better than arguing about what would happen if we sent one in.

Guest
2004-05-13, 18:47
If you're going to make a petition, ask Piro to throw a link up on Megatokyo. He's a fan of Key games and him merely posting a link would get the word out.

AnimeOtakuSama
2004-05-13, 19:13
If you're going to make a petition, ask Piro to throw a link up on Megatokyo. He's a fan of Key games and him merely posting a link would get the word out.

OOO, I very much agree...Piro from megatokyo is one of the more famous ppl out there on the net, with love of japanese anime/manga, not to mention a fanatic fanboy of Key games. If piro's link doesnt attract attention, this world truly is doomed....^_^

Stranger
2004-05-13, 20:45
just a side note, if you guys can come up with the money (even the first $750 is eough). Don't you think that would be enough to hire one of the fansubers??!!!!! And let him/her work on it for 3 months!!!!

RyokoTenchi
2004-05-13, 21:21
If you're going to make a petition, ask Piro to throw a link up on Megatokyo. He's a fan of Key games and him merely posting a link would get the word out.

this is of course no problem. i am friends with Fred and i will even see him at Anime Expo this year again. i do not think he will mind putting a link to our petition on his site at all. but first we have to MAKE THE PETITION. now since i have never made one someone please do so soon or even better tell me how and i will.

just a side note, if you guys can come up with the money (even the first $750 is eough). Don't you think that would be enough to hire one of the fansubers??!!!!! And let him/her work on it for 3 months!!!!

if it was really that easy don't you think Haeleth would be done with Kanon, a smaller game, By now? ^^

vikitehwaffu
2004-05-13, 21:25
Also, a professional translator at a standard rate is about 100-200 dollars per page worth of text.

I would also shell out that much for that kinda deal, but I am also a whore of such things.

adun50
2004-05-14, 00:22
i don't mind signing a petition, but from what i've read, alot of people have made valid points. but realistically. what would the chances beof games such as Air and Clannad to get a release it the US market?? a very small percentage. the market for these types of games isn't large enough to do what we want it to license

Haeleth
2004-05-14, 01:31
I think the $$$ petition was kind of a silly derivative from the idea that Peach Princess can't afford to license Clannad due to its success in Japan.
More a derivative of the idea that Peach Princess can't afford to license Clannad because they don't have any evidence that they'll sell enough copies to cover the license, let alone turn a profit. Even with a petition that showed 1000 people claiming they'd buy the game, they'd have to reckon that only about 100 of those were likely to do so when it came to it. So if people who signed the petition had already put some money down, that would provide a concrete guarantee of profits, and therefore increase the weight of the petition. The downside is that it would also stop most people signing...

It's important not to be too negative about online petitions; they have affected things in the past, but their effects do seem to be pretty slow. People were signing petitions over Hana yori dango for years before anyone finally licensed that (I believe that was another case of something being "too popular to license", by the way). So I guess one has to petition away, and maybe even if Clannad doesn't come over, Key's next title will.

if it was really that easy don't you think Haeleth would be done with Kanon, a smaller game, By now? ^^
If I were being paid to work on it full time? Yeah, I'd probably be finished by now in that case. :p

RyokoTenchi
2004-05-14, 01:55
If I were being paid to work on it full time? Yeah, I'd probably be finished by now in that case. :p

how much ya want? ^^

Weave
2004-05-15, 02:42
If I were being paid to work on it full time? Yeah, I'd probably be finished by now in that case. :p

Well, crap, if I had known that we would've had Kanon and Air done by now. Just throw up a donation link or something. :)

But seriously, with your skills you should look into doing this fulltime.

Haeleth
2004-05-15, 05:54
Heh, it'd be nice if life was that simple.

Can't really afford to do it, though - even if people were generous with their donations, I have to think about the long term. It's hard enough to find one job in today's market; quitting to translate a game and then trying to find another in a few months would probably be unwise. You might think I could just become a freelance translator or something, but my Japanese really isn't good enough...

RyokoTenchi
2004-05-15, 09:31
that start to study man. ^^ hope you're almost done. been stuck on thurs. for awhile now. lol

K
2004-05-17, 17:16
...So should we do a petition or not?

RyokoTenchi
2004-05-18, 00:02
like i said i do not know how to make an online petition so if someone tells me how i will. ^^

K
2004-05-18, 12:32
http://www.petitionpetition.com/literature/freepetitions/

Try that. I'll sign if you make one, and get my friends to, also ^_^;

AnimeOtakuSama
2004-05-19, 03:34
http://www.petitionpetition.com/literature/freepetitions/

Try that. I'll sign if you make one, and get my friends to, also ^_^;

Get that petition up and ill be the first of the signatures....^_^

RyokoTenchi
2004-05-19, 11:15
Petition made just waiting for it to show up on the site. should be the 21st it said.

K
2004-05-19, 12:38
Once it goes up, we'll notify Piro, and see if we can get him to make everyone who reads MT sign (mwahaha) ^_^

RyokoTenchi
2004-05-19, 14:42
sounds like a plan to me

RyokoTenchi
2004-05-22, 09:48
ok guys here is the petition. lets get people out ther to Start Signing ^^

http://www.PetitionPetition.com/cgi/petition.cgi?id=7053

AnimeOtakuSama
2004-05-22, 17:06
2nd signed....^_^

adun50
2004-05-22, 17:28
i'm the third to sign. come on people, sign up!!

K
2004-05-22, 19:12
Alright! Now let's get Piro in on this ^_^

vikitehwaffu
2004-05-22, 21:30
Signed, and whatnot.

Keisuke
2004-05-24, 09:45
To AnimeOtakuSama:

Hey! You are using my Hiyori!! =P

Signed btw.

AnimeOtakuSama
2004-05-24, 22:05
To AnimeOtakuSama:

Hey! You are using my Hiyori!! =P

Signed btw.

I hope u dont mind, i send a PM before i used it.....if u want i can take it off, but then i would be so heart-broken, since i wont be able to see Hiyiroi-chan....^_^

Keisuke
2004-05-24, 23:16
To AnimeOtakuSama:

Hey! You are using my Hiyori!! =P

Signed btw.

I hope u dont mind, i send a PM before i used it.....if u want i can take it off, but then i would be so heart-broken, since i wont be able to see Hiyiroi-chan....^_^
I didn't receive any PM... -_-###

Ah well I will just be nice =P

You can keep it.

I will just use little sister Yuki now I guess. XP

Bust Nak
2004-05-25, 00:23
Signed.

Yuki is cuter than Hiyori anyway.
_________________
「邪気にあてられて、自分を見失ったのね。父様を探しに行くの。あなた、邪魔よ」

K
2004-05-25, 14:02
Bleh. Mizuiro feels like a ripoff of Kanon to me...

Or maybe the OVA just doesn't do it justice. Dunno...

Keisuke
2004-05-25, 15:21
Bleh. Mizuiro feels like a ripoff of Kanon to me...
Now, are you saying that after just watching a OVA or after you've finished the game?

You should really know that Mizuiro 2003 OVA only covers less than a 15% of the game.

Heck, actually the Mizuiro OVA doesn't really follows the game story either. (How could they NOT PUT HIYORI'S STRAW RING scene!!!!)

AnimeOtakuSama
2004-05-25, 18:41
To AnimeOtakuSama:

Hey! You are using my Hiyori!! =P

Signed btw.

I hope u dont mind, i send a PM before i used it.....if u want i can take it off, but then i would be so heart-broken, since i wont be able to see Hiyiroi-chan....^_^
I didn't receive any PM... -_-###

Ah well I will just be nice =P

You can keep it.

I will just use little sister Yuki now I guess. XP

AHHHH!!! Yuki!!!! Yuki is nice tooo, but then, drinking juice from the same glass with Hiyiori rocks all....two straws in a glass....that moment was burned into my memories...was one of my favorite scenes in mizuiro....

Weave
2004-05-25, 22:41
i don't play enough games I swear...

K
2004-05-27, 12:54
Bleh. Mizuiro feels like a ripoff of Kanon to me...
Now, are you saying that after just watching a OVA or after you've finished the game?

You should really know that Mizuiro 2003 OVA only covers less than a 15% of the game.

Okay. I thought it was fairly clear in my post that I'd only seen the OVA...

Or maybe the OVA just doesn't do it justice. Dunno...

...I guess I retract my statement, then.

RyokoTenchi
2004-05-28, 09:57
<A HREF="http://www.PetitionPetition.com/cgi/petition.cgi?id=7053">
Translation of DS games from Japanese to English</A>

just a little coding for Haeleth to put on his site if he wanted to ^^

Kero
2004-06-06, 21:48
Was Mizuiro ever fan or formally translated? I really enjoyed the Mizuiro 2003 OVA (I hope we are not talking about the hentai OVA here...atleast I'm not)

Another question...Is there any fantranslations or an actual english release planned for Clannad? After paying large sums for both Kanon and AIR and having no knowledge of Japanese, I feel it would be a waste to order this, pay the satanic customs fees, then bother my older brother to give me back my DVD drive.

Weave
2004-06-06, 22:48
I'm sure in a few years it'll be done someday. Kanon's halfway done and Air's being tranx as we speak. Clannad is FRICKIN HUGE!!!! but as long as their are crazed fanboys there will always be fan translations.

AzureLight
2004-06-06, 22:59
I'd rather spend time translating NekoNeko Fandisc 2 than CLANNAD ^^

K
2004-06-07, 13:18
I hope we are not talking about the hentai OVA here...atleast I'm not

Nope, I didn't see Mizuiro 2002 (H version) either... like you, I'm talking about Mizuiro 2003. Decent stuff but the story elements seemed ripped from Kanon... of course, people who've actually played the game say that's just because too much was cut out. I wouldn't really know ^_^;

Mythia^
2004-06-09, 11:37
Hello

I'm just wondering if they will make an anime for Clannad (movie, ovas or tv series, I don't care), like Kanon and Air. Maybe next year? or... in two years or more? or maybe... not?
But I think there will be one! And I'm looking forward to it.

Other thing: are there surnatural endings in Clannad too, like Kanon?

By the way, since I'm actually learning some japanese by teaching myself, I'm going to try to translate what I wrote upwards.

今晩は

私は今自問してるもしもクラナドのアニメがあるのかな~(ムービそれともOVAそれともTVシリーズ、構わない)KANONとかAIRとか。来年にかも?それとも再来年に?それとも。。。ない?
けどきっとあると思ってるよ!楽しみに。

別物:KANONとかクラナドに珍妙なエンディンがあるも?

Please correct my poor japanese abilities ^^

Haeleth
2004-06-09, 13:11
私は今自問してるもしもクラナドのアニメがあるのかな~(ムービそれともOVAそれともTVシリーズ、構わない)KANONとかAIRとか。来年にかも?それとも再来年に?それとも。。。ない?
けどきっとあると思ってるよ!楽しみに。
Your version is comprehensible, but you're obviously still thinking in the English word order. Remember, everything comes backwards in Japanese!

とか means "such as". The "like" you're looking for is のよう (に, な).

For comparison, here's how I'd have translated it. Note in particular the lack of reported speech (you can't say "I was wondering whether X" in Japanese, you have to say "Could it be that X", or if you really must use a verb, "I was wondering, 'Could it be that X'").

もしかしてクラナドがAIRやKanonのようにアニメ (ムービーでもTVでもいいから) になるのでしょうか。 来年か、再来年か・・・ それとも、決してアニメにならないかもしれません・・・
いやー、そんな事あるわけないでしょう! きっとアニメになりますよ。楽しみですね!

ところで、クラナドにはKanonのような超自然のエンディングがありますか。

(BTW, I'm not fluent by any means, so don't take my word as gospel!)

In answer to point one, that probably depends on how well the AIR animes do. However, considering it took four years to get AIR converted, I doubt we'll be seeing a Clannad anime in the very near future whatever happens.

In answer to point two... yes and no. (What, you were expecting a straight answer?)

adun50
2004-06-09, 18:47
i agree with Haeleth on the Clannad anime/movie topic. plus also seeing how Kanon game was released in 1999/2000 and the anime came out in 2002, it'll be a while till you see Clannad being animated. you also have to consider the popularity of the Clannad game.

lol, i just tried playing Clannad through english Windows and found that it works, but the moment any Japanese texts appear, they don't appear and crashes the game. oh well, time to turn the box into Japanese again.

Mythia^
2004-06-10, 12:30
Ok, thank you very much Haeleth. Just a question: have you learned japanese by yourself (with books or something like that) all this time until now? Or with the help of a teacher...?
But "such as ... and ..." and "like ... and ... etc..." are the same, aren't they? Or I haven't worked enough my english :/ (Bcause I'm french, he he...)
I'll try to translate other things next time, if it don't bother you...

Ah, so much time for Air...
Then I'll keep hope for Clannad.
And I think the petition about translation of DS games in english won't make a big fuss, with this only very little amount of signatures ... *sigh*

Haeleth
2004-06-10, 13:24
Ok, thank you very much Haeleth. Just a question: have you learned japanese by yourself (with books or something like that) all this time until now? Or with the help of a teacher...?
I'm self-taught, which is generally a bad idea, but I seem to have got away with it... except when I try to speak the language, at which point it becomes painfully obvious.

But "such as ... and ..." and "like ... and ... etc..." are the same, aren't they? Or I haven't worked enough my english :/
Sort of, but not quite. I'm really not very good at explaining things, but I'll have another go:

とか means "like" in the sense of "for example": "Kanonとか" acts like a noun meaning "things like Kanon" or "Kanon and so on".

のように・のような means "like" in the sense of "similar to (but not the same as)", and it acts like an adjective rather than a noun, so you can use it in a wider range of situations: "Kanonのような物" means "something resembling Kanon", and "Kanonのようにアニメになる" means "it becomes an anime like Kanon".

Does that make more sense?

AzureLight
2004-06-10, 22:13
I'm self-taught, which is generally a bad idea, but I seem to have got away with it... except when I try to speak the language, at which point it becomes painfully obvious.

O_O wow... how long has it been? Self-teaching Japanese must be hell. I know... I'm teaching myself for 4 years now, but it still isn't good enough. I can only barely pass 3-kyu I think.

Aldareon
2004-06-11, 16:36
I can only barely pass 3-kyu I think.

There's a grade rating for languages? What's the definition for the kyu grades? Is there a dan grade as well?

Haeleth
2004-06-12, 03:53
It's a reference to the JLPT (Japanese Language Proficiency Test), which is the standard qualification. This has four levels, numbered 1 to 4, where 1 means fluent and 4 means absolute beginner.

adun50
2004-06-21, 08:02
well installed Clannad but found that you can't play via the use of AppLocale, ohw ell, after exams i'll play it a bit more. as for now, i have watched the opening sequence. very nice, such high quality and nothing less

Weave
2004-06-21, 10:10
It's a reference to the JLPT (Japanese Language Proficiency Test), which is the standard qualification. This has four levels, numbered 1 to 4, where 1 means fluent and 4 means absolute beginner.

I bet you could pass 1 if not 2 at the very least, I wonder where you can test?

Haeleth
2004-06-21, 13:07
言われて嬉しいですが、 実は私が三級でも出来ないかも知れません・・・ 翻訳なら自信あるけど、でもそれだけが足りないと思います。 (^^;

K
2004-06-21, 13:28
Say, whatever happened to posting those nice little tags that would tell people who don't know Japanese what you're talking about? I miss those ;_;

(Haeleth notes: あ、ごめん、すっかり忘れちゃった! They're there now.)

AzureLight
2004-06-21, 15:25
わぁ... 自習だけでもあんまりいいじゃない... ハエさまの日本語...

Weave
2004-06-22, 11:23
So, what does everyone think of the music?

personally, it's not bad but lacks the full emotion of Air's OST. I was disapointed by the poor quality of the instruments used; too much synth. OF course, if I had my way the entire soundtrack would be rock'n guitars and orchistral pieces, with alot of vocals in there.

zalas
2004-06-22, 14:27
わぁ... 自習だけでもあんまりいいじゃない... ハエさまの日本語...
I find 'Hae-sama' both cute and disturbing...

Haeleth
2004-06-23, 00:00
I don't think Azu-chan meant it to be read 蝿様. At least, I hope not. ;)

AzureLight
2004-06-23, 15:19
eep~~~ My stupid vocab.

2004-06-24, 18:33
Clannad parody comic is already out! So cute... (http://www.myimgs.com/data/PKIM/sayukine.jpg)

PS: I'm going on my family trip.. So I will be gone for awhile... Have a good day everyone.

Keisuke
2004-06-24, 18:34
Clannad parody comic is already out! So cute... (http://www.myimgs.com/data/PKIM/sayukine.jpg)

PS: I'm going on my family trip.. So I will be gone for awhile... Have a good day everyone.

Nuooooo I forgot to login again~ Bye bye

K
2004-06-24, 19:49
Like a heroin?? Someone's been using too many drugs ^_-;

Keisuke
2004-06-25, 00:42
Like a heroin?? Someone's been using too many drugs ^_-;
It doesn't take genious to realize that the person probably meant 'Heroine'.

Haeleth
2004-06-25, 01:28
I *knew* I couldn't have been the only person who she reminded of Sayuri...

Also worth a look: Quarter Iceshop's Minacla (http://kanon.comic.to/cla/cl002.htm).

Weave
2004-06-25, 04:36
wait, thats NOT Clannad?
whoa.

K
2004-06-25, 05:59
Like a heroin?? Someone's been using too many drugs ^_-;
It doesn't take genious to realize that the person probably meant 'Heroine'.

Bad joke ^_^;

adun50
2004-06-28, 19:00
*whips out RealLive disassembler and pokes at game's internals*


i'm interested in where you got this?? but if you can't say then i don't blame you.

Haeleth
2004-06-29, 01:46
i'm interested in where you got this?? but if you can't say then i don't blame you.
Wrote it meself, of course. :)

Of course, Jagarl (http://www.creator.club.ne.jp/~jagarl) had already done most of the hard work (http://www.creator.club.ne.jp/~jagarl/scn2kdump.lzh)...

Korgath
2004-08-12, 14:22
Sorry for the bump, but I have a small question about Clannad. Is there going to be a console version and if so, when? I've already played the PC version to see if I would like it (answer: YES). I only reached Nagisa's ending because I wanted to save the rest for the console version (and I still had to complete AIR...) but I'll just complete the PC version if it's going to take too long.

Anyway, I probably like Clannad the best out of the 3 Key titles I've played so far (the other 2 being Kanon and AIR). It made me laugh out loud a couple of times (in a good way) which is pretty rare of games for me. I love everything else about the game too, like the characters, music, atmosphere etc. I like Kanon a lot too but it didn't make me laugh as much as Clannad, and I like Clannad's atmosphere a little bit better. AIR was.. a bit of a disappointment for me. It wasn't bad in any sense of the word, but I just didn't care for most of the characters (Hijiri and Michiru being major exceptions). Sure, the story was a bit more involved but it also ended somewhat vaguely and I personally felt that some elements were perhaps a bit overdone (like the whole "I've been suffering for 20 zillion years"). Also, the Summer scenario (did I get that right? the one with Ryuuya in any case) was one of the hardest stuff I've ever read in Japanese... I'm glad I played the console version so that the voices could help me out on some kanji. I don't really have a problem with most texts if it's in 標準語 but I'm really not that experienced with older stuff. Oh well, I understood enough to know what was going on.


誰かが何か知っているなら返事して下さいね。*

*I'm not that experienced in actually writing Japanese (as opposed to reading) so this might be a little wrong...

Haeleth
2004-08-12, 15:06
Is there going to be a console version and if so, when?
Most people are expecting a PS2 port at the very least, but nothing official has been announced yet AFAIK. Bear in mind that it took two years for AIR to be ported to the PS2...

Also, the Summer scenario (did I get that right? the one with Ryuuya in any case) was one of the hardest stuff I've ever read in Japanese... I'm glad I played the console version so that the voices could help me out on some kanji.
Just be glad they didn't write it in full-on classical Japanese... ;)

I found the hardest part was making head or tail of what Kanna was saying, at least until I got the hang of her dialect. You know, all that "余の申すことは変よの" stuff. Let's just say I really don't envy anyone who ends up trying to translate that...

zalas
2004-08-12, 17:29
Also, the Summer scenario (did I get that right? the one with Ryuuya in any case) was one of the hardest stuff I've ever read in Japanese... I'm glad I played the console version so that the voices could help me out on some kanji.
Just be glad they didn't write it in full-on classical Japanese... ;)

I found the hardest part was making head or tail of what Kanna was saying, at least until I got the hang of her dialect. You know, all that "余の申すことは変よの" stuff. Let's just say I really don't envy anyone who ends up trying to translate that...

My friend who was studying Heian Japan was getting really annoyed at the spliced usage of classical Japanese. And it's going to be really fun figuring out how to put this in English. Like do we go full on Shakespeare-era speech? or put in random thou's, etc. It's kinda weird. Most of the time, it seems the speech sounds a lot more archaic than the descriptions :)

Korgath
2004-08-13, 00:07
Most people are expecting a PS2 port at the very least, but nothing official has been announced yet AFAIK. Bear in mind that it took two years for AIR to be ported to the PS2...

I see, just as I thought. Guess I'll just wait and see.

Just be glad they didn't write it in full-on classical Japanese... ;)

I found the hardest part was making head or tail of what Kanna was saying, at least until I got the hang of her dialect. You know, all that "余の申すことは変よの" stuff. Let's just say I really don't envy anyone who ends up trying to translate that...

Yeah, same here. I found some of the Buddhist/Shintoist terms harder to understand, though. But that's because I haven't really studied vocabulary like that yet. Full-on classical Japanese seems like hell, more so than classical English because of all the extra kanji you'd no doubt have to use.

Anyway, thanks for the help.

Haeleth
2004-08-13, 01:13
And it's going to be really fun figuring out how to put this in English. Like do we go full on Shakespeare-era speech? or put in random thou's, etc. It's kinda weird.
Ah well, you don't go into a translation like this expecting to have it easy. I guess it all evens out - you get the scene where Ryuuya tries to get Kanna to say "warawa" instead of "yo", but I still have to figure out how on earth to deal with the one where Yuuichi tries to get Ayu to say "watashi" instead of "boku"...

I don't see where Shakespearean speech comes into it, though - Shakespeare is 16th century, Summer is 10th century. Se an tunge þa þe ge ceosen magon byð þone ealdre englisc tungan. (The only option you have is Old English.)

zalas
2004-08-13, 05:48
Well, I'm trying to look for other similarities other than exact year. For instance, most Japanese people will understand the dialogue written in Summer, and most native English speaking people will be able to read Shakespeare if they've gone through roughly the same amount of learning. I think Middle English makes a better match because I think it is the immediate predecessor to modern English, while I think Classical Japanese is the immediate predecessor to modern Japanese. Also, I think the Heian era and Shakespeare's England have similarities in society in that both times feature a prominent and blooming country.

Korgath
2004-08-13, 07:07
I wonder how the Chinese translator handled Summer, even though I don't know a word of Chinese. I imagine that part is hard to properly translate no matter what language...

zalas
2004-08-13, 07:12
I thought the Chinese translation only got thru most of Misuzu's Dream scenario?

Korgath
2004-08-13, 07:18
Really? Well, never mind then :/.

nota
2004-08-15, 04:46
Trivial knowledge no.2

Text Quantity Comparison (Japanese version)(readable states)

(about size) (gamename) (file counts rather meanless) (maker)

1.50 MB Kanon 73 seens KEY
1.69 MB Air 85 seens KEY
3.91 MB Clannad 201 seens KEY
1.33 MB -One kagayaku kisetu- 74 seens tactics (KEY menbers)
1.22 MB Moon. 160 files tactics (KEY menbers)

3.65 MB Tukihime Type-moon
1.24 MB Kagetu Type-moon
89.1 "K"B TukihimePuls 3 storys Type-moon
5.85 MB Fate/stay night 724 seens Type-moon
1.72 MB Soreha maitiru sakura no youni 89 seens BasiL(now no-exsist)

I used tools. These are freeware.You can get it from below sites.
m-akita's Home Page (many) (http://cgi.ngy.3web.ne.jp/~myakita/)
fao (KEY&ONE) (http://www.project-fao.org/)
?¬“ׂ̕”‰®(many) (http://www.geocities.jp/kontonn/index2.html)

‘¼‚̃Q?[ƒ€‚Å?A‚±‚̃VƒiƒŠƒIƒ??[ƒ_?[?Aƒ?ƒbƒZ?[ƒWƒ??[ƒ_?[‚ðŽg‚Á‚Ä?lŠC?í?p‚É‚µ‚½‚猋?\?A–|–ó‚ª?i‚Þ‚Ì‚Å‚Í?H
‚ÆŽv‚¢‚Ü‚·?B‚Ü‚ ?A‰pŒê‚ª’´?ãŽè‚Å?A‚ ‚é’ö“x“ú–{Œê‚ª•ª‚©‚é?l‚ª‘½?”•K—v‚È?ã‚É?A
ƒLƒƒƒ‰ƒNƒ^?[‚Ì?«Ši“?ˆê‚Ì‚½‚ß‚É–|–󕶂ð?C?³‚·‚é?l‚ª?”?l•K—v‚È‚Ì‚ª?A
‚©‚È‚è–â‘è‚Å‚·‚ª?E?E?E?B‚Æ‚±‚ë‚Å?A‚±‚ê‚ç‚Ì?î•ñ‚·‚Å‚É’m‚Á‚Ä‚Ü‚µ‚½‚©?H

‚»‚ê‚©‚ç?Amidi?iƒJƒmƒ“‚Æ‚©ƒGƒA?[‚Æ‚©ƒNƒ‰ƒiƒh‚Æ‚©‚Ì?j‚Ì?Љî‚à‚µ‚½‚¢‚Ì‚Å‚·‚ª?A‚µ‚Ä‚à‚¢‚¢‚Å‚·‚©?H

Weave
2004-08-16, 02:08
DEAR GOD!
I am so happy I'm not the one tranx Fate/StayNight.

I'm more of a song tranxer anyway.

zalas
2004-08-16, 13:44
I wonder how the Chinese translator handled Summer, even though I don't know a word of Chinese. I imagine that part is hard to properly translate no matter what language...
Sorry, my bad. Just took a look at key fan club's site today and it seems they're in the final stages of testing for their AIR patch and are now recruiting members for their Clannad translation.

Haeleth
2004-08-16, 15:32
I am so happy I'm not the one tranx Fate/StayNight.
Grief yes. Not only is it huge, the Japanese is tough too. Some of the more convoluted descriptive passages left me panting for the relative simplicity of AIR's Summer. ;)

他のゲームで、このシナリオローダー、メッセージローダーを使って人海戦術にしたら結構、翻訳が進むのでは?
と思います。まあ、英語が超上手で、ある程度日本語が分かる人が多数必要な上に、
キャラクターの性格統一のために翻訳文を修正する人が数人必要なのが、
かなり問題ですが・・・。
念のために言うと、AIR (http://odin.prohosting.com/creign/Air/transmain.html)も月姫 (http://revolve.emuxhaven.net/tsukihime.html)もFate (http://www.newlifeanime.com/index.php?page=projects)も翻訳プロジェクトがすでにあります。 別にはかどりませんけど。 やっぱり、できる翻訳者が少ないからでしょうね・・・
クラナドにもあるかもしれません (私はある人に逆アセンブラーを作ってあげましたが、使うかどうかまだ分かりません)

(English summary: Nota wonders whether, since people have already hacked all the games he compared, it might be possible to translate them by throwing people at the problem, but notes that it might be a problem finding enough people with the necessary skills. I mention that a number of them already have translations in progress.)

ところで、これらの情報すでに知ってましたか?
Faoさんのツールが知っていましたが、他のは聞いたことありません。
ちなみに、Faoさんのシナリオローダーを見つけなかったら、このKanon翻訳プロジェクトも始めなかったのです。
より高性能のツールが自分で作ったからシナリオローダーはもう使いませんけど・・・

BTW, Zalas, I didn't give you a PDT converter, but there's one on the page of m-akita's that Nota linked which you might find useful.

それから、midi(カノンとかエアーとかクラナドとかの)の紹介もしたいのですが、してもいいですか?
ああ、良いのが知っていれば遠慮なく紹介してください。

zalas
2004-08-16, 20:11
BTW, Zalas, I didn't give you a PDT converter, but there's one on the page of m-akita's that Nota linked which you might find useful.

Thanks for your help! And I'm fine, I already got a PDT converter a while back when fooling around with making Still MADs.

Korgath
2004-08-17, 02:35
I wonder how the Chinese translator handled Summer, even though I don't know a word of Chinese. I imagine that part is hard to properly translate no matter what language...
Sorry, my bad. Just took a look at key fan club's site today and it seems they're in the final stages of testing for their AIR patch and are now recruiting members for their Clannad translation.

So I was right after all :). Hats off to them for translating so much text.. though I wonder if I'll ever find out how they handled that part.

zalas
2004-08-17, 07:33
I think it's probably not that hard for Japanese -> Chinese, because there is the type of Chinese used in older books such as Xi You Ji, which can be used very appropriately. Most fluent Chinese people would be able to understand it, and it's not as hard as pure Literary Classical Chinese. In fact, to me, it seems to be also a mix of some of Literary Chinese's grammatical structure and some terms with modern Chinese. I think if the translator really scoured hard enough, (s)he might be able to find some equivalent for warara, etc.

Well, we'll see when they release their patch :)

K
2004-08-18, 15:54
I still have to figure out how on earth to deal with the one where Yuuichi tries to get Ayu to say "watashi" instead of "boku"...

It's impossible to go for a direct translation there.

What does that portion of the script say (in English, but using "watashi" and "boku")? I can try to come up with something...